Welp, I miscalculated slightly. This is the last strip of this piece of the story. I considered padding the end a bit to fill out the week, but decided against it. I don’t want to begin the hiatus earlier than announced either tho, so Friday’s strip will be a one-off featuring a couple of the supporting cast.
My two week hiatus (and the associated guest strips! :D) begin next Monday! Enjoy the guest arts, and I will return in two weeks with the continuing adventures of the Smith/McClellan families. 😀
For those that read Skin Horse, the Amanda/Selkie split screen in the bottom row makes me think of UNITY.
The *SNAP!* *PING!* moment that’s coming from both of those girls on Friday is going to be a thing of epic proportions.
I think they’ll agree that they hate their parents for forcing them to like each other. I’ll come back when your mind is unbroken for the implications of this.
I don’t necessarily agree with Todd in the first panel. What happened before isn’t just gone. Selkie needs to try with Amanda, yes, but that doesn’t mean she shouldn’t be apprehensive or wary of Amanda due to her past behavior. If Amanda tries with Selkie, then Selkie needs to try with Amanda, which includes not being passive aggressive, excessively snarky or antagonistic in any way without reason, but if Amanda doesn’t get it, then there’s no point in Selkie being forced to try.
Hopefully Andi is getting through to Amanda here and she’ll take it all into consideration that she does in fact have a sister now and that she needs to stop taking out her misplaced aggression on said sister. I feel like Andi can provide Amanda with many new, intuitive hobbies to channel her anger into something creative and beautiful. In the end maybe helping Amanda open up about her feelings and letting her trust people again.
Because really, it all boils down to Amanda being a very sad, hurt, angry little girl who feels alone in the world and that she can’t trust anyone but herself.
Yea, this is bullshit. Selkie isn’t obligated to ~start liking~ her bully, who never stopped intentionally hurting her, either. Hell, she doesn’t even seem to particularly dislike Amanda – just gives as good as she gets, tit for tat. Yet even that is apparently too much for adults. From her point of view, they are basically asking her to roll over and take it when Amanda hurts her. I hope Selkie is mature enough to understand they don’t mean it like, that, but
seriously, what IS it with adults assuming everything kids do and think is like, a game, that’s totally their choice and easy and they can just stop playing it any time. If two kids got in a fight, you should obviously punish them both because it’s not like it’s possible to get in a fight with someone without their consent OH WAIT
Amanda really does need to change her attitude, but – asking for it like that is still the exact opposite way from actually making anyone want to like anyone. It’s entirely pointless. The above bit about ‘game’ applies – yes, Amanda is the one who starts shit with Selkie, but while she can stop doing that, she can’t just stop disliking her on a drop of a hat. Startlingly enough, people can’t always control their emotions!
Both parents are fucking up right now, imho.
ok… so tell us exactly how would YOU have done/said anything DIFFERENTLY?
Maybe me being a ol’ fuddy-duddy changes my perception, but i think what both of them said was reasonable. now… what they say to the upcoming outburst (that you can tell is coming due to the red backgrounds), is where i expect to be surprised.
They don’t have to like each other, just manage to be around each other without this causing trouble for the rest of the family.
“Sweetie, here’s the thing: I understand that Amanda doesn’t like you and treats you really badly, but she’s family now. Please try not to murder her, and don’t start the fights yourself.”
“I didn’t and I didn’t!”
“Good. Keep it that way!”
Selkie was really, really good to Amanda today, as far as interacting with your bully goes. There isn’t really anywhere to go from there, it’s Amanda who needs to be taught to play nice.
As for Amanda.
“You’re gonna have to get used to… having a sibling. Again. Hopefully, this time one who doesn’t mistreat you. And you don’t mistreat her. So please, when around Selkie, try to be civil and not start any fights. You don’t have to like her, just remember she’s family and don’t be awful.”
You can’t like someone on demand. And what I missed last time – “you’re gonna get used to having a sibling” – remember what happened last time Amanda had siblings? So. Yeah. Mega miss there.
I think they’re writing out the end terms. It’s best to state what the goal is from the beginning so they know what everyone is working towards. I think Todd and Andi know if they ever get to the point where Selkie and Amanda actually like each other, it will be a long time coming. It’s a work in progress that hasn’t yet started progress.
Still, some of the most loyal siblings I know can’t stand each other. There’s a buzz of hostility between them and you expect backstabbing games between them. But if someone screws with one, they get the other as well and it’s a tag team.
Me and my sister, we like each other though on paper we’re polar opposites. Not that we didn’t have our issues, there was times where it seemed that we were wholly at each others throat. We had to unleash our frustrations on someone, and at times we just had each other. But now we got each others backs like no one else.*
*Results not typical, please consult a therapist when trying to turn the rage into something constructive. 😀
When we were kids, my younger brother and I — close in age — fought all the time. I remember it as him giving as good as he got, but I don’t know how accurate that is! It was often physical, until he was about ten and got strong enough that he could always win the fights, at which point I went through about three years of being scared of him, but still using my tongue and sarcastic older-sister wits to taunt him whenever I could. Hostilities subsided gradually. I still remember the day when I realized with astonishment that as teenagers we could actually be allies against our “unreasonable” parents!
That was nearly six decades ago. Throughout our adult lives, brother and sister, we have been very close. We know that we can count on each other, no matter what.
So… yeah. This is going to be a slow process. No instant results.
End terms or not, short-term it’s only going to make everything worse. I really, really hope Amanda doesn’t end up feeling like she has to PRETEND to like Selkie for her mother, keeping the hatred and resentment behind the scenes.
And Selkie literally cannot do anything more to be close to Amanda than she does now. She WAS civil. Replying in kind when Amanda gets hostile is better for their relationship than just leaving, or ignoring her, or whatever it is adults usually propose as a solution for bullying.
She definitely can’t just suddenly be friendly. It’s a self-defense thing. If she tells Amanda a secret, she doesn’t know Amanda won’t tattle it to everyone just to spite her. If she gives Amanda her favorite toy, she doesn’t know Amanda won’t break it just to spite her. Etc, etc. Selkie was literally on her best behavior during this visit, and it’s very unfair of Todd to not acknowledge that and to demand something more.
This. Exactly this, Liliet. This is complete bullshit and Todd is making a huge mistake that could lead to enormous resentment down the road. For Selkie, there’s a pretty nasty undertone of “Now that you found your REAL kid she can be as mean as she likes and I just have to take it.” This is not okay.
I don’t quite think it’s that bad – Selkie is probably used to adults being tone deaf bullying-wise. But she does have to get used to family no longer being her safe space anymore… )=
I think Andi could have worded it a bit better, but I think she’s done better than Todd here. She’s telling her that Selkie is family, she’s a person and that Amanda needs to recognize that. Sure, she certainly needs to go more inot details about this, but she’s on the right path.
Todd, on the other hand, told Selkie that it doesn’t matter that Amanda was horrible to her, that, that is long since forgotten, in the past. What he SHOULD be saying is that if Amanda is willing to try and become a better person and starts treating Selkie nicely and is sorry for the things she’s done, Selkie should forgive her for it and work with Amanda as long as Amanda is trying.
This speaks a lot about Todd. Is he willing to throw out the things Andi has done in the past? If he expects Selkie to forgive and forget immediately without Amanda being apologetic then by that logic he should forgive Andi who IS trying who IS sorry.
Don’t be a damn hypocritical jerk Todd. Either forgive Andi or don’t expect Selkie to hold these standards that you aren’t willing to uphold yourself. Hell, at least Andi is trying, Amanda hasn’t said she’s sorry or indicated she’s remorseful for the things she’s done to Selkie.
Excellent point, SpringPop.
Though… now that I re-read Todd’s speech all on its own… “We’re ALL going to have to work on getting along.” It’s possible this is coming from his own feelings towards Andi. He’s lecturing himself that he’s going to need to let that hostility go… and has just generalized that to Selkie and Amanda without thinking through the differences.
Parents do that — they project their own sense of what what they themselves need to do into a generalized “This needs to happen…” and then they feel they are definitely doing the right thing by sharing that imperative with their kids.
This results in many, many unappreciated lectures!
I think it’ll get sorted, though. This is just one story-arc ending moment. Selkie is going to be resentful about it — and she has a right to be — but she’s not going to be crushed.
I hope so. She has a right to be upset about this, but I do hope someone talks to her and explains things.
Andi has forgotten another fun thing, which is Amanda’s history of sibling relationships. Not quite as bad as Todd’s slip up, but still likely to put Amanda on guard instead of the intended effect.
And seriously, it’s impossible to like someone on demand. The best you can do is pretend, and starting off the relationship with Amanda having to hide her feelings from her mother and pretending around her to like someone she doesn’t? This is going to be a disaster.
Although, yeah, not QUITE as bad as Todd’s. Yes, he meant that he was going to try and forgive Andi, but there’s a difference between a one-time horrible betrayal years ago, and years of systematic bullying that can’t even be said to be entirely over.
Yeah I kind of agree with the people saying she doesn’t have to learn to start liking anyone. There are many cases of family members, even siblings, who hate each others’ guts. At most, they may have to learn to tolerate each other. While this is a comic, and I see it working out in the end, in reality “liking the other” is not a necessity.
Amanda’s attitude is going to have to change. It’s not only her attitude towards Selkie that is a problem, Amanda has also managed to alienate most of her friends.
Yes. I’d feel better if Todd said (in the most parent-acceptable way), “Yes, Amanda was and still kind of is a dick. We’re working on helping her *stop* being one and I know you are trying your best.” Also… I think Todd needs to carefully disclose Amanda’s past to Selkie. It isn’t betraying Amanda. It’s *helping* her. Selkie would probably be more patient and be more aware of things that set Amanda off—which helps both her and Amanda until Amanda starts to heal and trust.
Amanda’s past wouldn’t be news to Selkie. Heather already told her. At this point, Selkie probably knows more details than Todd does.
Actually, parts of it would. If I remember right, Selkie only knows the adoptive parents returned her. She doesn’t know about the abuse. Besides, Todd doesn’t know that Selkie knows.
Does Todd know the details? I forgot )=
And if he does, yeah, he should have had a talk with Selkie about those.
I’m pretty sure this is extremely dismissive of their feelings. This would be like telling even real siblings “don’t ever fight.” It won’t happen.
Yes, but it is not completely out of character for either parents to make this mistake—especially given they are first-time parents in a very emotional and difficult situation. When craziness happens and you have to address behavior issues in a timely manner it can be very hard to find the right things to say. Amanda being Todd’s daughter came out of left field. No doubt Todd is still processing it and can barely think straight (especially with all the anger, hurt and bad memories he has). Andi did not expect to be introducing everyone so very soon. The kids are used to years of hostility (and in Amanda’s case—jealousy and displaced anger) between one another. I think the fact both parents have kept their cool enough to have a sensible talk with the girls about this to begin with is amazing. The biggest thing they are doing wrong is talking to them right away—at least in Selkie’s case, but it would have probably be smart for Andi to let Amanda have a day or two to process meeting her new family before having this talk, too. Everyone would have been in a better frame of mind and the parents would be a lot more thoughtful if they had slept on it. That kind of thing is mistake even seasoned parents make though, and these guys have had their kids less than a year. So, yes… An insensitive mistake on Todd’s and Andi’s part, but still realistic in-character writing.
This isn’t quite The Talk, this is just a couple sentences, which is fair enough for immediate summation.
The problem is that those sentences are off the mark completely, especially the ones for Selkie. “Amanda is a bully, but you are going to have to like her anyway!” If she knew Amanda was being given an identical speech, and that Todd means to assume they’ll be both putting effort into this, it’d probably not be as bad, but she doesn’t.
God knows it always grates on me when parents are trying to resolve my conflicts with my brother by telling me to give up, because they cannot convince him and I’m the sensible one. Like, I can understand where they are coming from, but holy fuck. No.
And that’s probably what it sounds like for Selkie – I don’t think she sees the possibility that Amanda will change. It’s a one-sided demand.
Oh and you wrote “om” instead of “on” in panel 3, Dave.
He’s…. meditating? >_>
😉 Thanks for the catch
Meditation might do both siblings some good.
(Though Selkie, at least, definitely needs to avoid the “conceal, don’t feel” trap.)
Don’t let it show… well now they know.
Let she gore….let she gore…. *uhm wait*
Can’ts holds it back anys more!
(I’m sure I got those esses wrong.)
“I will settle, in the short term,” said Dumbledore, with a bite of impatience in his voice, “for a lack of open hostility.”
Yeah, that’s more like me and my brother. We never liked each other, but as long as we kept it below a certain level, we got away with a lot of stuff. They don’t have to like each other, they do have to tolerate each other.
Yeeeeeeah, that approach isn’t going to work. Best to start with ‘you don’t have to like her, but you do have to learn how to not try to kill each other on a daily basis’. Get the basics down first.
In case I don’t get to it then, have a great vacation, Dave!
“Whatever your past history with Amanda has been, things are different now” ah right remember how Amanda played with her without hostility to have fun and didn’t call her names and didn’t say that her father shouldn’t have adopted her oh wait
Those last two panels though
Surely you mean “tolerate.”
I tend to agree. I did not like my younger brother until I was in high school, and did not like my older brother until I was close to thirty.
I got along with them, but I did not like them.
I stopped liking my sister when she graduated high school, got hooked up on drugs, and a guy with a toddler (who she regularly abused). And, yes, you *can* pick your family once you are an adult. For some of us it’s a survival skill. Though I have the sense that this is not the direction Selkie will go in as Amanda has redeemable traits and potential. The girls seem a lot alike in certain ways in regard to their passion.
Hello, I’ll be your Edge for the next two weeks. The ‘rents are driving the kidlings to school, the kidlings are primed to have at each-other … in direct defiance of parental Fiats. (Which is odd, Andi drives a pick-up, and Todd drives a Hinda.) I’ll Allow you to hang onto/from me for the next two weeks, while you agonize over what sticky brown goop is about to be flung into whirling blades of the fan. And while y’all are hanging from me, you can call me “Cliff.”
Wishing you all, and Dave especially, the very best of the season and its holidays. Please be well, all, and each of you … Please remind Selki that suffering -in life- is mandatory, but the misery is optional.
My doctor said its a quick and simple operation to have a hiatus fixed, and letting it just be can lead to complications. Please Dave, enjoy your hiatus as best you can. We’ll be waiting with tuna-breath for your return.
Whatever you’re on, please mail me some. 😀
Siblings don’t “like” each other. That word is way too simplistic. You don’t have to be friends and hang out and braid each others’ hair every day. A good sibling relationship is like family–having their back on the serious stuff. On a day to day basis if they bicker and/or ignore each other, THAT IS TOTALLY NORMAL.
Hahahaha—now Amanda and Selkie have one thing they can gripe to each other about. “Maaan, our parents! ARG!!!”
No. You *can’t* force someone to like someone else. I don’t care how circumstances line up that way, I don’t care how similar or different the people are, if they don’t click, they don’t click. And in this case, it’s worse — one of them is verbally and emotionally abusive and the other is a victim with no fault of her own. This is a cruel thing to do. It would’ve been like if my parents said “here, you have to accept that the mean kid down the street who calls you fat and ugly all the time is now your brother.” (This dude did exist.)
I’m reminded of the classic ‘I liked having you as a spouse so much, I brought home a second one!’ second-child parallel (for monogamous people).
Also, I’m particularly reminded of sibling who hate each other despite (and because of) being brought up together. Or, as Queen Victoria as child said as she slammed the iano lid down on her music teacher’s fingers (if I remember correctly), “There is no ‘must’.”.
Aside of the fact that no, they don’t need to like each other just because they are sisters, not a fan of both of them getting the same speech when Amanda’s the one at fault for the way their relationship went. Really wish someone would call her out on that, expect I doubt Andi will…
I just have to echo all of the other people who point out that they don’t have to “like” each other. Frankly, they just have to be civil enough to avoid massive temper tantrums, both in public and in private.
…And he must let the world think that he is dead, until he can find a way to control the raging spirit that dwells within him.
Pffft. This is what I saw when I noticed Selkie and Amanda spliced.
I’ll just leave this here…
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/20/TIHcredits.jpg
Yeah no, that is too much to ask of Selkie. I hope Mari and Theo help here.
Considering they want Amanda as much as Todd does, I think they’re not going to be much help. They’re going to agree that the girls need to get along and forgive each other and grow to love one another. Hopefully they’re going to let Selkie know she doesn’t have to pretend like Amanda never did anything mean to her and that she’s got every reason to have her misgivings, doubts and wariness about the whole situation though. I do hope they stress to Selkie that she needs to try with Amanda and forgive Amanda IF Amanda is trying and asks for forgiveness or is sincerely sorry for the past. And then at that point Selkie will hopefully let the past stay in the past and step into a bright, new journey into the future.
Amanda, likewise should be told her anger at the situation she was put in is not unjuatified, but is indeed misplaced. I do hope Andi explains to Amanda that taking out her frustration on Selkie is wrong even if she inadvertently caused it. She in no way intentionally meant to steal the show and downplay Amanda’s horrible situation. Andi needs to explain that even though Selkie’s existence at the orphanage did indeed cause Amanda’s crisis to be diminished, that it was in no way Selkie’s fault directly. That Amanda needed to direct her anger somewhere and because the adults didn’t have the time for her she took it out on someone as vulnerable and alone as herself, her peer, someone she knew didn’t have authority over her so she wouldnt be ignored…
But, Andi needs to really explain to Amanda and get to the root of the problem so Amanda herself realizes that Selkie isn’t to blame directly. “Amanda, why do you hate Selkie?” “Because that stupid fish hogged all the adults at the orphanage!” “How did she do that?” “By being a stupid fish!” “But what did she do to make the adults ignore you?” “She was like oh boohoo look at me I’m a dumb fish that no one understands pay attention to me.” “Did Selkie really say that?” “Well… no. But that’s what happened!” “Is it really Selkie’s fault the adults ignored you?” “Yes!” “Why?” “Because… because… because she was just there! Ok!?” “But is that really Selkie’s fault? Wasn’t she left alone all by herself too?” Cue a fuming Amanda who now has every realization that Selkie’s mere existence can’t really be held accountable for Amanda’s pain. Amanda won’t like the realization one bit, but she’ll slowly start to realize what she did was misplaced and wrong.
Sorry, Todd, but “Like” isn’t in the cards, and parent or no you have NO RIGHT to require that of her.
Forgiveness would be nice, but again that’s not something you can demand Selkie do. The best you can ask for is that she at least try to tolerate Amanda as long as Amanda remains civil to her.
We’ve seen Todd commit very few missteps as an amateur parent (aren’t all parents amateurs — some more amateurish than others?), but, yep, this is one of them. I hope that he give this a bit of a rethink eventually and comes back with “I realize that wasn’t quite right or quite fair; what I should have said was [read comments on p.719].”
So either Todd is unaware of the degree to which Amanda has tortured Selkie (I can’t recall from the back comics whether this is true or not, feel free to correct me one way or the other) or he is being a complete and unreasonable idiot.
For now lets say I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt, he thinks that Selkie and Amanda just don’t like each other and have had some fights in the past, both have been equal antagonists. From that perspective its somewhat reasonable to say “look, I know you guys didn’t get along, but things are different now, you need to try and be nice to Amanda”.
Frankly I still think his approach is wrong, and agree with the people above who suggest that “liking” Amanda is far too much to ask, where as being civil to her is somewhat reasonable. IMO, if it were me (and I’m not a parent so I may lack a certain perspective here, but I do work with kids for my job), I would have approached it as follows:
“Selkie, you are my daughter and nothing will change that. I love you and no matter what happens I will always be here for you. I know you and Amanda don’t get along well, but things are different now, so we are going to have to try and do things a bit different too. Amanda and Andi are going to be a part of our lives now. It won’t always be easy but we are going to have to try our best to make things work. You don’t have to be Amanda’s best friend but I need you to do your best to be nice to her, ok?”
And to that I would add only: “…You also don’t have to put up with it if it doesn’t look as though *she’s* making any effort to change. But instead of dealing with it yourself in your own way, I’d appreciate it if you’d hand the problem over to me instead. Don’t think of it as tattling; think of it as giving the right job to the right person.”
Even Amanda should not be required to aim for the goal of “liking” Selkie. Both girls need to be set towards a basic, no-frills, bottom-line status of “civil behavior”. However they choose to deal with one another after that foundation is established is their business.
And I’d love to see Andi try to get to the bottom of Amanda’s hatred of Selkie. As her mom, shouldn’t she be curious about whether that strange, alien girl ever did anything to her child to *deserve* this hatred? Right now Selkie understands Amanda better than Andi does, because Heather explained. I’d like to see Andi having a conference with Miss Ellen and Miss Haversham-Zhang about it, and Keisha being called in as the orphanage’s sole remaining Amanda-expert. Lightbulbs all around.
Amanda was the name of the local slayer candidate of Sunnydale who was turned into a slayer by the scythe spell Willow cast and killed in the Hellmouth battle.
It’s learn to ‘tolerate’
I can’t stand my siblings
I am REALLY hoping that the next time this subject comes up Andi’s mom gets the blame that she so rightfully deserves. This is ALL her fault.