Parting shots fired.
– – – – –
Got a Fanart Update today! This one came from Micah Fahar:
hank you, Micah!
The pigtailed skull was a spur-of-the-moment addition.
Parting shots fired.
– – – – –
Got a Fanart Update today! This one came from Micah Fahar:
hank you, Micah!
….Wow. The first attempt was bad enough…but she seriously had the gall to try it a second time.
I find it perfectly in keeping with her character. I’d actually find it harder to believe if she gave up faster and accepted that the bridge has been burned.
woo, first comment! Also, I agree with Todd. There are more important things at stake here, than your broken heart and personal desires, Andi. There’s kids caught up in it now. Congrats on humanitarian of the year award.
Here’s hoping she grows up 🙂
I just hope Amanda will turn out ok. Andi might be her biological mother, but the girl needs a more stable influence.
Buy her a pony?
Yes…I will kidnap Twilight Sparkle and have her teach Amanda about the magic of friendship.
“Forget friendship, teach me how to move things with my mind!”
Roflmao, Dave!!
Doot-doo do do doot
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEWgs6YQR9A
Well, first you need a horn like a unicorn and… why do you have that hacksaw?
Yes. This.
Proud of Todd though, sticking to his line.
Reminding me of that South Park episode about Michael Jackson. They went with the premise that Michael wasn’t actually a pedophile, just a quirky (sometimes even creepy) guy who had missed out on his childhood and desperately wanted to experience it now that he had the resources and freedom to do so.
Then they pointed out that even assuming all that is true: He had a kid. And when you’ve got a kid, your priorities shift. You stop being so concerned about your own problems and start focusing on the kid’s needs.
And I’d say that much of the time, that kind of mental shift brings you greater overall longterm happiness than if you had given minimal effort toward the kid and focused entirely on the things that made you happiest. Because there’s a difference between what you need, and what you THINK you need… and pleasure’s one of those things where seeking it makes it hide from you, but giving pleasure to others benefits both. (Assuming a few caveats.)
Nicely handled, Todd! The self control and restraint that he’s showing is huge. Andi’s dramatic blurting there has given Amanda enough information to do the math for herself.
(Mom 25 – 8 {Amanda’s age}=17{Andi’s age at Amandas birth}/ mom used to DATE this guy?!)
The ride home is NOT going to be pretty.
Oh I think that was loud enough for all the interested parties to hear. I’ll bet Selkie will have some questions for Todd too.
Yeah, grow up is actually a good way to define the issue. Andi has never moved on from being a selfish, socially stunted, know it all teenager. She just wants her comfort zones back, re reading her talking to Todd about her trying to date someone else makes it pretty clear she would do anything to avoid an uncomfortable social situation.
Really, Andi?
I just hope Amanda doesn’t suffer for this, as it’s clear that Andi only got her back to try and get Todd back in her life. I really feel bad for the children that have been brought into this situation. I also really hope Todd gets custody of Amanda. Andi is not mature enough to be her mother.
It’d certainly be interesting if the next leg of the journey is Todd slowly realizing that Andi really isn’t capable of being the mother Amanda needs right now… and concluding that taking on a second kid, whether it means convincing Andi to give her up for a while or actually fighting her in court, is what’s best for everyone.
I doubt that’s the way it’s going, but it’d be interesting.
Not sure where this is but if it is the US then that isn’t likely. He’d be lucky to get joint custody. And if you are balking at that and wondering if it is true; sadly it is. Worse, less fit mothers have gotten custody.
It’s in the U.S., in a fictional city in Wisconsin.
Ican see him getting joint since Andi does want him in their life. I can see him taking that and maybe getting her on weekends or something so that he can build a connection to her and then to Andi.
I doubt he’d rebuild any sort of trusting connection with Andi ever again after what she did to him.
I’m not defending Andi, but this isn’t atypical behaviour. Wanting to get back together with your ex, especially high school sweethearts, is rather common.
I honestly don’t see how she got Amanda back “just to win Todd over”. That is not a spur-of-the-moment decision. She wanted to do what was right by finding Amanda and coming clean to Todd. She may not have done it perfectly, but would you in her shoes?
Andi is a human being. Just because she’s fictional, people peg her as a ‘bad guy’ or ‘villain’. That’s not how real life works, and human beings are not strictly perfect or ‘evil’. Fiction often times does that, but good fiction realizes that humans are not perfect.
I honestly do not understand all of the people blindly hating her and thinking she should just die.
As I kept pointing out when Agent Smith was in the antagonist position: antagonist does not mean villain. An antagonist is simply something in the way of what the protagonist wants. Antagonists often have noble intentions and can sometimes actually have the protagonists’ best interests at heart.
Andi just doesn’t realize that she needs to back off. Her worst mistakes are in the past, but she doesn’t realize she’s still making not-as-bad-but-still-bad mistakes now.
Those here who see her as an outright villain should chill out though. Andi isn’t even nearly as abusive and oblivious as a bunch of people in real life I happen to know. She’s not a villain, she’s just panicking and doesn’t know how to handle the situation. If she was a villain, she’d yank Amanda out of that school so she’d never risk running into Todd in the first place. None of this situation is a result of Andi thinking ahead at all.
Andi is failing to realize Todd’s needs during this, but she’s doing so because she’s emotionally vulnerable, not out of malice.
As usual, MadTinkerer, you are a refreshing beacon of good sense and thoughtfulness.
“None of this situation is a result of Andi thinking ahead at all.”
If anything, that’d be a good candidate for Andi’s “Tragic Flaw” (to lapse into English Major jargon a bit): she doesn’t think ahead much. And it snowballs…
Yes, yes, yes yes yes. It’s clear that Andi DEEPLY regretted what happened with Amanda, and has pretty much since the first moments she handed Amanda over. (Again, reasons why this problem should have been brought up BEFORE SHE WENT INTO LABOR, Mother McClellan.) This WASN’T just “I want to get Todd back,” and people who think so are IGNORING a lot of Andi’s conversation with her mother. Now, clearly it WAS a motivation, which… Seriously, Andi? Seriously? But it’s not just that. If it were just that, she probably would have told Todd before picking up Amanda. She spent months of work tracking Amanda down and getting cleared to reclaim her, she stayed through Lillian’s “Amanda has been seriously abused and needs significant help, this won’t be all roses and rainbows,” and she is trying to be in Amanda’s life.
The problem is she’s also terrible at thinking things through, very possibly an abuse victim herself (her mother is worryingly manipulative at best,) and jumping into motherhood headfirst without a lot of preparation with a child who’s been very deeply abused and is going to need serious help. I think she’ll be able to grow into it, I think Amanda having a mother who is in things for the long-haul and is (presumably) financially capable of getting her into some serious therapy is going to be good for her, but it’s going to be a long ride first.
Trust me, it’s not blind hating. I never said she should die, but I can see her wrong behavior for what it is. For all the people who say they should give Andi a break, we never see Andi herself deserving one. She continues to show she’s only thinking of herself.
I think that there’s a difference between “recognize the essential humanity that Andi’s actions show” and “forgive Andi/cut her a break”.
That said, it is just as human to dislike other humans, and several readers (by their own report) dislike Andi. While there may be people who do not understand Andi, the main debate seems to be between those who empathize with her (see her flaws as transitory) and those who judge her (see her flaws as enduring).
I am one who sees Andi as MadTinkerer (a true-to-life and complex antagonist who is so well-written that said character sparks great debate) sees her and I see her the way the “Andi-haters” see her (a despicable human being but possibly not beyond eventual redemption?), if I understand the generalizations correctly. Yes, it is human to not only shy away from dislikable behavior but to point it out either for the good of self or good of dislikable individual. I feel that Andi is a giant chasm of a character who is rapidly filling in with complex nooks and crannies of lifelike detail which speaks very well of the writer (Dave, *nod* 🙂 ), but if she were a real person I just met/just witnessed these events, I might avoid her at all costs.
Here’s my personal take. It may not be very common, but we’ll see.
I think one of the reasons people love to hate Andi here is because we’re not allowed to do this in real life. There is a lot of social pressure to move on, to forgive and forget, to be the “bigger person,” but sometimes being full of rage and righteous indignation is just plain fun. We don’t *have* to forgive Andi. We don’t *have* to be nice to her. We can enjoy her pain because she’s fictional, and because she embodies a number of traits that cause a wide range of negative emotions in readers, from vicarious embarrassment to sheer fury. She’s a person we don’t want to be and don’t think anyone else should be, either.
It’s like how people watch movies where the bad guy gets shot full of holes, and they cheer. It’s not that we want to see people die in real life, it’s that seeing that image of something you hate get violently destroyed is a fun mental exercise. It’s cathartic.
Very true. Being allowed to express oneself, including one’s dislike, is cathartic.
Doesn’t mean it isn’t unhealthy, for oneself or others, if one gets carried away with the emotion of hatred.
I don’t know if I would say that there’s “social pressure” to forgive, if anything I would say the opposite exists… territory/race wars, literally in the case of Israel/Palestine and ISIS etc. … Gang revenge-killings… A culture of respect being “owed” rather than “earned”, at least beyond basic human decency. But maybe I see it that way because I’m old-fashioned.
There ought to be a happy medium in open society, where we are freer to express ourselves and just leave it at that, without having to take everything so personally. But that’s just my humble opinion.
Yeah, there’s a weird divide. We have wars and grand conflict like this, but on the other hand, the ability to primally settle one on one conflicts has all but died. When my dad was young, he settled his arguments with a fistfight on the playground, and the teachers didn’t really care. But when he and the other kid were done, they buddied up again. It’s how the culture worked. I feel like we’ve lost something by losing the schoolyard fight or the duel to first blood. We can’t actually *combat* each other anymore to settle problems. It creates a lot of pent up aggression that has nowhere to go.
There is also that, and it probably applies to others. Just not me:)
Andi, here’s a protip:
Stating that you want the relationship that you had in the past with someone who knows that during that time you were lying to them; to that person that can be taken as meaning you want to lie to them again. Or that you regret admitting the truth. Or that you just regret them finding out the truth.
Now, clearly that’s not what you meant, and in my case I am deliberately projecting onto you (a fictional character) my experience in an abusive relationship that has nothing to do with you. My point is that you 100% need to give up the relationship you had if you want even a sliver of a hope of a good relationship in the future. Because Todd will never want what the two of you had, because he now knows that you were lying to him about what the two of you had while you had it.
I’m beginning to see the Andi-haters’ point. Here’s hoping she doesn’t handle Amanda finding out as badly as she handled Todd finding out. Because that could go even worse. 🙁
RE: Your first paragraph. OR she’s so self-absorbed she doesn’t see what the big deal is – everything should be all better now because she’s finally told the truth. Never mind that she’s given no regard to Todd’s feelings or given any kind of forethought to the consequences for Todd, Amanda, Selkie, Todd’s parents and siblings…
It really IS all about her.
The last few pages happened over a matter of minutes. Yes, she’s not given enough consideration to Todd’s current feelings. But she hasn’t actually had a lot of time to do so.
Andi is refusing to let go of the idea that “Being in a loving relationship with Todd is the best thing for all of us”. She’s failing to realize that such a thing is not best for the current circumstances, and possibly ever. In her panic and emotional vulnerability she is being selfish, but she doesn’t realize it.
She seems to hope that Todd will forgive her because he loves her, so she wants him to love her first. But she doesn’t realize that forgiveness needs to come first regardless of the possibility of love. It’s childish, but not malicious.
Incidentally, I know some people in real life who are both kinds:
1) Someone who is as bad as you are describing and wants to pretend that the abuse never happened. This person, after admitting they were pretending to feel a certain way, now wants to pretend that they weren’t pretending. This person is a charismatic psychopath and they will never deceive me into thinking they are not a monster again.
2) Someone who was oblivious to the problems she was causing and did lie but genuinely, desperately wanted to have a good relationship. This person was mostly honest about her feelings but tragically keeps letting her emotions control her and doing things she knows she’ll regret. I never have been involved with her and knowing her I likely never would get involved with her, but there is still hope for her finally giving up her (frankly insane) ideals and having a healthy relationship for once.
Now I would say that Andi is a much, much milder version of number two. She’s acting selfishly, but it’s because she’s thinking of a loving relationship with Todd as a good thing without thinking about the context of the situation in which she is pursuing it. She doesn’t realize how selfish she’s being.
But maybe she will now.
For the record, I don’t think Andi is malicious. She’s lived a life that has allowed her to remain self absorbed. She has yet to appreciate fully all the consequences of her actions. In her mind she is clinging to what was, without realizing how badly her actions have destroyed that. Maybe something can be rebuilt on that foundation but it’s going to be a very, VERY long time before that’s even an option on the table.
Thinking about it being a good thing, without thinking about the context… you know, this reminds me of the general concept of Wisdom:
Intelligence is being capable of grasping concepts and principles. Knowledge is having amassed the concepts and principles. Wisdom is knowing which concept or principle to use for a given situation.
A person who is intelligent and wise but not knowledgeable is either too young to have had much experience, or has led a sheltered life, but can grasp concepts easily and made good judgment calls about which principle to use when.
A person who is knowledgeable and wise but not intelligent may find it difficult and frustrating to try to get a concept into their head, but over time they’ve built up a good collection and they can make good choices about which one to use when.
Andi’s a person who might be intelligent and might be knowledgeable but certainly is not wise. She doesn’t have a good idea of when to use a certain principle (“love is good” for example) and when it’s just not appropriate.
I’m with you on her not being malicious. But she’s still self-centered in a lot of ways, and has a lot of growing up to do.
If Andi cant consider the Todds and his family’s feelings without having them shoved in her face that is disgusting and not something to defend with. Oh this talks only lasted a few minuets she’s not had time, no she has had nothing but time to think of anything but herself. Ignoring the 8 years she kept the secret from him because yeah that’s a debatable mess of physiological issues, the last few months of actively seeking out Amanda should have warranted some reflection other then ‘oh wo is me I made a mistake and people will be mad at me’.
Have you been in Andi´s shoes before?
If yes, then by your own standards you are disgusting and should not judge Andi so harshly.
If no, then you have no idea what is going on inside here, and should not judge her so harshly.
No, Andi should be judged harshly. Andi’s reasons are no excuse for what she did.
If writers only wrote about what we knew, stories would be very boring indeed:)
I know you weren’t talking to Dave but I had to point that out. How do we writers do what we do? Where do such compelling characters come from? I’m positive he didn’t do what Andi has done, yet he created her and her motives. I’m just saying that people are complex. Not just the fictional Andi, not just Dave or other writers. I mean all of us. Invariably, humans generalize and categorize in order to communicate more effectively and aid in our great need to be social creatures, yes, but we are all more than the sum of our parts. We need not walk a mile in someones’ shoes in order to feel their feels. We just need to try empathy, or not, as per our choice. Silly, complex things that we are:)
Dave is writing. Dave is NOT declaring her a disgusting monster.
The thing is, Dave created Andi and knows (as well as any creator does) what is going on inside Andi. Kitenkaiba and the other
Andi-haters neither created her, nor (hopefully) have ever been in her situation, and thus do NOT know exactly what is going on inside her, nor did they, as you put it, try empathy – so I say perhaps they should reserve their judgement a little.
I cant empathize with her becuase i cant imagine standing around watching someone i care about greive a child when i knew that child wasnt dead. Where was Andi’s empathy for Todd?
With a mother like hers, where would Andi have learned empathy?
Really? We don’t even know if her mom is abusive as some claim. Even then, Andi is still responsible for her own actions.
Also, I have friends who have had abusive parents and where did they learn their good traits? From other good people. It isn’t impossible. It just is completely dependent on if the person sees the difference, wants to change, accepts what is commonly acceptable behavior and tries to modify their own, etc. That’s all. Just lends further to the complexity of “people” and “human”.
I love that the skull in Selkie’s thought bubble has pigtails! Can’t wait for Friday!
If there’s ever Selkie shirts in the future, I’d love a skull with pigtails one. XD
Concur. And I can’t wait to see a good compare-and-contrast shirt with Selkie and Amanda together on it. Good color contrast, good personality contrast, good attitude comparison 🙂
I’m not sure that black is the right background color for the pigtail skull- it makes it too indistinct.
Yeah, I think gray would be better
Yeah, kind of. I’m uploading a version with bigger pigtails, might help them stand out (I’d rather keep the black color)
I think it was supposed to represent Selkie’s hate for Amanda—given Amanda has the same orange pigtails.
I hope Andi’s got some money saved up. She REALLY needs to buy a clue.
Props to Todd for keeping it together!
And I’m really loving the skull-with-pigtails. 🙂
What are these “clues” you speak of, and where can I get them? I know some people that could use them… (Though to be entirely honest, I can probably use them more often than I care to admit too. 🙂 )
Perfect response. X3
Poor Andi. While I understand Todd’s reaction, she wasn’t exactly in the best of places. The way she looked freaked out during her pregnancy, then the fact that her mother was harassing her to give Amanda up for adoption… poor girl. Especially since I’m certain her hormone levels were super unstable (fun fact; when a woman gives birth and they don’t keep their hormones in check, they could become unstable and even suicidal. I’d know that; my sister went through that). Wasn’t super right in the mind during that time, so I can’t blame her.
That’s the thing, though; I think most people who are angry with Andi aren’t blaming her for what she did 8 years ago immediately after giving birth. That’s relatively understandable all things considered.
What people aren’t as forgiving or “poor Andi” of is the fact that she had another 8 years, most of them as an adult and after postpartum depression and hormonal issues had passed, to think about and deal with her mistake. 8 years during which she didn’t, until just now.
And compounding this, after finally rectifying her bad but somewhat understandable decision 8 years later, she still appears to be immediately focusing on herself rather than her child (or Todd’s feelings) in trying to fix her relationship with Todd, rather than apologizing and leaving it at that for now.
pretty much, except for one thing. I blame her for lying about the baby’s death. Maybe it was understandable to lie when talking to Todd, but if she had any sort of moral code she would have dropped the lie after a few days. Instead, she took tree ashes and filled an urn with it. Doing that showed an incredible lack of empathy for her supposed beloved boyfriend, for eight years.
She lied and insulted his entire family when he suggested that they adopt. Andi knew how much that would hurt and gave him TREE ASHES and told him it was their DEAD BABY. Just told the truth and tried to HIT ON HIM.
I would feel nothing for her as well.
I don’t see the hitting on that you see? But it’s to individual perspective. I see her just being desperate to keep a friendship. Yes, she could be asking for the relationship of couple again, but I didn’t see that. They had a rocky friendship before the bomb literally dropped; I thought that was what she was desperately wanted to keep.
I love these insights though!
Asking for anything at this point was highly inappropriate. whether friendship or romance. Truth to told, they didn’t have any sort of friendship after they broke up how many months ago. They didn’t see each other until Todd allowed her to visit after he adopted Todd. And here in this strip she actually says she wants what they had, which was romance.
I love all the comments about Andi so far for this strip. I feel they are perfectly insightful and are people who not only understand what’s really going on but are feeling they are perfectly free to share it. Yay, fellow fans!
I know! This comic has such excellent commentary!
Something just struck me, but I’m not sure what because it was gone before I could get a positive ID on it.
It left me with a residual thought, though. Todd’s parting comment to Andi, “Grow up.” THAT is Andi’s problem in a nutshell. It’s like – at least as far as her interaction with Todd is concerned – she has not matured at all in the last 8 years. Her responses are completely selfish and inappropriate – but they’re not too far off the mark for a child.
I’m wondering how badly she’s been traumatized over the years by her mother.
This doesn’t make anything that she’s done even remotely okay, but if true it goes a long way towards explaining it.
Yes. I think this is why her hair hasn’t changed over a decade. That wasn’t an accident on her character design. But you know? It’s pretty accurate (though an extreme representation) for adult people just starting to wake up from severe emotional abuse. I still really hope, though, her mom turns out to be behind the urn and a funeral. That kind of effort to orchestrate such a huge destructive lie is beyond being a sad person who makes mistakes. It belongs in one of two categories: 1) Super mentally illness (the kind where you really shouldn’t be out in society on your own) or 2) Psycho and/or sociopath (which can include number 1).
“So you only came back for me because you wanted to date Selkie’s dad?”
Yes, Amanda. That is why your “real mom” came back for you.
Christ on a cracker! Yes, Andi. Grow. Up.
Todd is really mastering the art of saying as much as needed with as few possible words right now. Yes, the last part was more public, but he’s still handling it like a champ for now.
For fuck’s sake, Andi.
If you’d just shut the hell UP after Todd offered you that olive branch, if you’d had even ONE FUCKING LICK OF SENSE to realize that he’s right that this isn’t the time or place for this discussion, you might — MIGHT — have gotten a chance to start, if not neutral, at least from a place where Todd might be willing to hear you out again.
But no, /your/ feelings, /your/ desperate need to have “what you had” again were so much more important than Todd’s completely understandable and only barely restrained rage that you just HAD to push a second time. And then when he pointed out just how ludicrous your comment was, you pushed AGAIN.
Nothing in this world matters except what you want, does it? Nothing else is quite real to you except your own feelings?
Grow. Up.
yeah, I’m pretty annoyed at Andi too. Let him go process his feelings and heal a little before talking anymore. Let him have some privacy. It is not his job to make you feel better about what you did.
And that´s one important reason NOT to pretend Andi is a manipulative psychopath who cares for nothing but what she herself wants: Manipulative psychopaths are GOOD at playing other people like a fiddle; Andi, on the other hand, sucks at it.
Andi just needs to grow up. I presume she is still stuck, in terms of emotional maturity, at the point when she gave up the baby.
This was better than I thought the reveal would go. I can’t wait for their dinner 🙂 I had a random question… since Shark Week is coming up, would Selkie watch it?
I think she’d get a kick out of Shark Week!
WHOA NOW, Andi! You don’t stab someone and then immediately throw a bandage on there and say: “Sorry about the stab! We’re cool now, right?”
Haha:) I think this counts as stab-to-the-heart and THEN a twist-the-knife, especially with that “I just want what we had” play followed by a “Doesn’t that mean ANYTHING to you?”. Wow, Andi. Thank all, Todd ain’t no sucker LOL. That there be classic manipulation fer beginners right thar, folks.
Awww! I love the fan art today!! Good job, Micah!
Thanks for sharing with us, Dave!
Another great comic.
I love that he’s managing to keep his rage at Andi at bay by sheer force of wanting what’s best for his daughters. Yes, I made that plural.
And kudos to Micah Fahar for the awesome fanart!
As someone who actually did lose a daughter to full term, unanticipated stillbirth I can say without hesitation that Todd is being a hero. This is the stuff of NIGHTMARES. I’ve had several vivid dreams that my daughter is alive and being hidden from me. It seems to be a common stillbirth nightmare. I held my daughter, washed and clothed her body, and gave her to be cremated with my own two hands and I STILL have this dream. Todd never had that kind of closure. To have Amanda”come back to life” under these circumstances is horrifying. I guess Todd doesn’t know about the abuse Amanda suffered yet, but just thinking about that in reference to my own lost daughter hurts viscerally.
I can’t even comment on Andi. I can’t wrap my head around it. But Todd is handling this better than I ever could.
Hugs, Ally. I cannot begin to imagine what you´re going through, reading this story arc.
I’m going to have to second this. It can’t be easy reading subject matter that hits so close to home. Thank you, Ally, for sharing your perspective on things.
I’m due on the 12/7 and this is my biggest nightmare. The idea of loosing the baby before you even had a chance. I cant even imagine what that’s like and as non religious as I am I find myself praying that I never have too. I think at lot of people who defend Andi do not fully comprehend the horror of what she did.
I had this fear with both of my kids when I was carrying them. Nothing to point out any problems but I still believe that if I cannot think it could happen, it’ll sneak up and bite my ass so hard, I’ll cry forever. That may sound kinda extreme but, honestly, if I’m prepared as I can be, it makes me feel better. And after they’re born, I try not to worry over every little thing but then you hear about those who turned away for too long or got wrapped up in something-or-other and I struggle with that, too:) My mom was right that being a parent means your job is to worry.
I don’t have children, and I can see the horror. I feel so bad for Todd.
~ALL ABOARD THE HUG TRAIN FOR ALLY~
*hugsssssss*
Indeed. As a man (and an adoptee at that) I simply cannot imagine what that must feel like. Our sympathies.
I see many comments that seem to adhere to the philosophy, “Never attribute to malice what you can attribute to stupidity.” Thing is, in my philosophy at least, is there really a difference? Let’s suppose the actions of one lumberjack results in another lumberjack losing his arm. Would the fact that the one lumberjack didn’t mean harm actually make any difference? The arm is gone either way; he just would feel really, really bad about it after. Andi’s actions are enough to emotionally traumatize any human being. To find out that someone you love gave up your child and covered it up by telling you she was dead? There are quite a few stories that start out this way; they usually involve a wicked witch or an evil overlord. And let us not forget the eight years that Amanda Marie has had. A family adopts her, beats her, and then brings her back when she refuses to be silent about the abuse? Whatever you want to say about how good or bad a mom Andi would have ended up being I think everyone could agree on, “not as bad as that.”
She didn’t mean to hurt anyone. That’s great. She still did. Welcome to a world of realistic consequences. Dead people don’t come back to life, lost limbs can’t regenerate with a few lines from the Bible, and even small cuts can be problematic. Welcome to hell. It is far more boring than the brochure made it seem.
Agree on stupidity vs malice.
Disagree on “everybody would agree” that Andi wouldn´t have been that bad. Some commenters here, from what they write, would almost certainly be absolutely sure that Andi, evil soulless psychopathic monster that she is, would have treated Amanda infinitely worse than the adoptive parents did.
To be clear I think Andi would have been an ok mom had she taken that path. She would have had support and been forced to think of someone other then herself. It in all likely-hood would not have turned into a abusive situation for Amanda. Its the lie that has made Andi a horrible and unreliable person and mother.
Hmm.. the lack of lips on Todd looks weird, especially on the second to last panel. Not trying to diss the artwork, especially since I’ve seen a lot of improvement and of course I LOVE this comic. It’s addicting. You gotta come back and see what happens next. Which means of course that you’re a great story teller too 🙂
It means a lot Andi, but nothing good!
Two good responses on Todd´s part would have been,
“Yes, it means something to me, which is why I am not punching you in the face right here, as much as part of me wants to.”
and
“You lied to me about my child for eight years, Andi. Doesn´t THAT mean anything to YOU?”
Amanda’s right there. And she’s sometimes dense but she’s NOT stupid. I wouldn’t be surprised if, on the car ride home, she goes, “That guy…was he my dad?”
People who defend Andie’s actions and consistently look for things to blame other then her seem to have an issue with the idea of ‘being responsible for your own actions’. People don’t ever want to admit fault and will look for anything to blame other than themselves and it feels like a lot of people are projecting that onto Andi.
At the end of the day Andie is a thinking sentient human with the ability to reason and think past emotional reactions. That is the very basis of society and why no amount of ‘they were abused as a child’ makes the person who then goes on to abuse children or others a sympathetic or reasonable person that shouldn’t have to wear the full ramifications of their actions.
*Example* Being angry and frustrated at the lack of control in his life and the issues he’s suffered growing up doesn’t make the guy who turns abusive in a desperate attempt to find control in his life a sympathetic person. No he is a cruel selfish person who is willing to emotionally destroy (if not physically as well) someone who trusted them. But without fail you will get people who will defend him. People will ask the question ‘why did they stay’ or like with Andi point at superficial manipulation he went though as a kid like that excuses years of manipulation and lies. Often completely ignoring the pain and suffering the victims went though.
It’s a cowardly and disgusting why to look at any scenario with innocent victims. How can we be compassionate to the one who lied and manipulated? We have no idea how much they must have been hurting! So let’s excuse much of what he did and downplay the current victims who have been hurting due to his actions.
Debate all you want about what brought Andie to the place she’s at but ‘DO NOT’ act like is absolves her of hate and blame. She is responsible for her actions. She is not a victim that needs to be coddled she is an abuser. It doesn’t matter if she learnt to be an abuser from her mom, she is still one herself. I won’t ignore current victims because Andie chose to give in to her emotions rather than fight and do the right thing.
I think that it is a bit more complicated than that.
I don’t know if it is just me, but I am getting the impression that Andi thinks that she and Todd would never have broken up if she had ignored her Mom and kept Amanda. Hence her desire to get back together with Todd.
I won’t deny that she’s going about this all wrong. It’s highly unlikely at this point that she and Todd will get back together, especially after what she did. But I can understand why she’s acting the way she is.
That said, I don’t blame Todd for reacting the way he is. I can’t even imagine what he must be going through right now. 🙁
Whoah now, at least on my part, I really resent that. I have, in fact, repeatedly stressed throughout my comments that my lack of harsher judgement doesn’t mean she gets to escape the consequences of her actions. And I’m pretty sure I’m not the only one who’s stressed that either.
Please don’t be blind/hateful to the point of putting words in other people’s mouths and deeming arguments black-and-white when they JUST AREN’T. I REALLY don’t want to have this conversation (https://selkiecomic.com/comic/selkie644/) twice.
(By which I mean the comments for that strip)
Wow, looking at the last panel… It is powerful. Todd walking away from Andi, Amanda and Selkie both watching on, and the De’Madieas as well. This should bring up some interesting walk-to-the-car talk:)
You know who else needs to be at that talk at Todd’s place?
Theo, Marigold, and Patricia.
“But I apologized! That makes everything better, right? Why are you being so mean to me? Why can’t you just forgive and forget and give me what I want?”
Well, that line didn’t work so well on Todd. I wonder how well it’ll work when she uses it on Amanda?
Dave, I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: Knowingly or unknowingly, your portrayal of a mother-daughter relationship afflicted by Narcissistic Personality Disorder is SPOT ON. Well done, you.
Just gonna point out, just because she acts childishly and doesn’t really think about others’ feelings first, doesn’t necessarily mean she HAS NPD. Has Dave explicitly said she has NPD? No? Don’t jump to that conclusion please.
I don’t like Andi either, but come on.
(It could also be any other Personality Disorder, fwiw.)
Almost time for the Friday update and I had another thought. It seems like a lot of agreement that Andi is immature at best. (Yes, I know, I’m being kind)
Because of that immaturity, what if SHE is the one that blurts out something super inappropriate for the very public venue they’re currently in?
*F5, F5, F5, F5, …*