Okay okay, I *know* in the grand scheme of things it’s really not nice, appropriate, or helpful for anyone to say that to Selkie – especially in those terms which at least Agent Brown did jump on Benny for.
But.
I absolutely couldn’t help but laugh my rear end off at this update, especially that face in Panel 3.
I’ve never heard a reason why children shouldn’t swear that didn’t boil down to ‘it makes me look bad when you swear’, or perhaps that it disrespects the parent to swear in front of them, as its language reserved for your pears or inferiors. But that second one is still pretty messed up.
My base principle with kids swearing is “you don’t yet have a feel for what’s an appropriate level of swearing for a given situation,” coupled with “you seriously don’t want to make swearing a knee-jerk habit; you want to reserve swears for times when no other terms will adequately convey what you want to convey.”
So like, adults would tend to understand that most people should never use the term “nigger,” that most of those who do are doing a bad thing, that some portion of those who do are doing an okay thing (reclaiming an insult, much as we reclaimed “yankees” or the LGBTQ crowd reclaimed “queer”), and that there’s a level of social awareness required to figure out which group you’re in, whether or not you can/should use it, when and how you can use it and with/about whom, etc.
But to a kid, it’s just “this is a Big Bad Word that everybody reacts to! lemme use it ALL THE TIME!”
Same reason a kid might do other anti-social things, because it makes the adults act funny.
So, basically, we teach kids “these words are words that kids should not use” until such time as the kids are old enough to understand the “when and how to use them” part. Which doesn’t cut out all inappropriate usage, but cuts it down to a manageable level.
Consider it the verbal equivalent of teaching kids “never punch someone” or “never disobey your teacher/coach/authority figure.” There are definitely times when you should punch or even kill someone — but a kid doesn’t know how to judge the situation enough to know when a punch is warranted. There are definitely times when you should not obey authority figures — but this requires a level of judgment that children don’t have. So we teach a baseline rule first, and the nuances of it later.
We learn language through practice. That logic only holds if you encourage the kid to swear when appropriate. Otherwise, it’s fetishizing these special words which they are FORBIDDEN!
To a kid it’s something they aren’t allowed to do for literally no reason. And the anti-social things? It’s called ‘learning how to express yourself’ for a reason. To suggest that kids act out just for attention is like saying adults have affairs for attention, or wish they could drive sports cars for attention. Egos and even vanity go beyond wanting to feel like the center of attention. Egos, our pride and shame and fears, are kind of a big deal, and you don’t just suddenly have them one day.
WTF?!? There’s literally no justification for Agent Brown allowing Benny to do that. It’s straight up bullying. And no matter how angry or upset Todd is he should be ripping Agent Brown a new one for this not agreeing with him.
That’s not bullying… if you believe that’s bullying I would say you’ve never being in the receiving end of bullying.
Also, pointing out your kid F*D up, although it was very rude to put it that way, isn’t wrong, you need to make your kids accountable for their mistakes, if you think you’re doing your kid a favor by siding with him when he messes up, you’re not, and it’s bad parenting.
He’s an edgy teen and Todd knows this, and haves a relationship with the family, if this came from anyone else I would get you, but current circumstances wouldn’t make me side with my kid, I wouldn’t be helping my kid at all if I did that.
Putting all those things aside, focusing on making my kid understand “why” he messed up and the consequences is very much priority over everything else, this things are fresh right now and it needs to happen right now else my kid will believe it’s “just a mistake” there are things that aren’t “just a mistake” and Selki needs to understand that.
1. You’d lose that bet, hard.
2. Yes, it is absolutely 100% bullying. A kid mocking and insulting another, younger kid like that, especially in a situation where they are allowed to by an adult is completely bullying and completely unacceptable. Under NO circumstances was Agent Smith putting Selkie in that situation even remotely justifiable. He’s a fucking professional, this is supposed to be his damn job, and he’s making chore deals with his kid to allow the kid to harass someone? Agent Smith should face professional discipline for that kind of horrible lapse in judgement.
And Todd’s response? A complete failure as a parent to simply agree with that and not fire back at Agent Smith for his utterly unprofessional actions.
Whether or not Selkie screwed up (and honestly, was it ever discussed that the Echo thing was supppsed to be Top Secret) is beside the point in how this was handled. Smith may have professional justification to let Selkie know that she messed up and discuss the consequences, but not like this. Never in a million years like this. She’s a kid who has being used as a guinea pig/pawn by any number of adults, pushed into a situation with other scared kids and very little has actually been done to prepare any of them for it. She messed up? Hardly shocking given the behavior of the “adults” in how badly they’ve all handled the whole Sarnothi situation.
But even if none of that were true, even if she’d screwed up 100% on her own. Agent Smith allowing Benny to be there/do that is utterly unjustified.
Actually as a parent I have to say I’d probably welcome Benny in this instance. Sometimes peer response brings a point home a lot better than just hearing the adults say it again and again.
Also I have to agree with HentMas. This does not qualify as bullying to me. While the choice of language is not the most appropriate, Benny’s reaction, PLUS the information of what Benny is doing in order to get the right to give that reaction (all the extra chores) reinforces how big of a deal this is. This is more of a familial/community response. Something that I think reflects well the change in relationship between Agent Smith (and his whole family) and Selkie’s family.
Now if this line were delivered by an adult Or even if Benny gave that response without being taken to task for his word choice/way of delivering the message yes it would be bullying. In this case though it feels right and true to all the characters as they have been written.
Familial/community – that is precisely the problem. Todd is Selkie’s family, and as her parent it is his duty to punish her for misdeeds. Agent Smith is community, and while he has never before punished Selkie for anything, he can at least claim some right to do so.
But what is Benny doing here?
He’s not Selkie’s caregiver. He’s not here in any official responsibility. He’s not here as Selkie’s friend because as far as I recall the two barely speak to each other. He wasn’t present at the incident, which raises some alarming questions about how he even knew about it, but however that happened he has no direct connection to the incident. He’s not even trying to stand up for what’s right. As far as I can tell, his entire interest in being here is that he heard that Selkie was in trouble and decided to jump on the “Let’s yell at Selkie” wagon.
I don’t know if you’d call that bullying. I’d call it a nasty step away from rule by authority and toward oppression by mob. If I were in Todd’s place, I’d be mad at Benny right now, and Agent Smith for supporting him.
(My parents got tired of their children mobbing siblings like this, so they made a rule. In case of a real-world mob, the morally correct choice would be to support the oppressed party. Therefore, every time anyone in our family tried mobbing, the mobber took on half of the sibling’s punishment.)
Agree with you there – Professor Trunchbull did the very same, when he protected his kid, when Tommy get in that fight his old school. It made him think it’s right to do, what he wants, without any consequences – essentially making HIM into a bully.
That’s not really necessary and is even effing childish for someone of Benny’s age. Especially for Agent Brown to allow. Like really? REALLY?
Todd telling her that it wasn’t okay is one thing. Bullying a younger kid? The frickin’ frack are they thinking? Also Todd’s ‘he’s not wrong’? What? Why? Who would let someone do that? My Mom would never let anyone pick on me even if I’ve messed up. No matter how much I messed up.
This isn’t bullying. If you actually think telling someone off when they messed up is bullying you have a real misinformed view on what bullying is.
Agent Brown also immediately reprimanded him when he said ‘fucked’ up instead of ‘messed’ up.
Also, this isn’t just any kind of messed up. This is “possibility for war” level of messed up. If Todd were to defend Selkie in this, he would be the new worst parent of this comic.
I wouldn’t call that bullying, personally. I’ve been bullied and I count teasing bullying as different things. Bullying is downright malicious with the intent to harm. Teasing is a sort of in your face and taunting thing, but not malicious and is usually being ignorant. Benny is being a snarky little shit, but honestly, it’s no worse than how Selkie taunted Tehk about being better than he is because she has flame eyes and he doesn’t. While she’s kind of a little shit in her own right for implying her powers make her better than someone else and using that to make him think he’s lesser than she is, I don’t think her or Benny’s actions were malicious. Just… them being sarcastic, smug assholes. Time and time again we’ve been shown that both Benny and Selkie are smug, snarky and have anger issues when they don’t get their way, but that doesn’t make them evil. They’re not horrific bullies, they’re just… kind of dramatic and self centered kids right now.
It’s really weird Agent Brown allowed Benny to do that, but I suppose that lends credit to him not being too upset at Selkie, otherwise he would have been a lot more stern about the entire thing. I don’t think he’s gonna lay into a kid for… well, being a stupid kid who decided spiting another kid was worth more than keeping government secrets. He’s not gonna be happy, but I at the very least don’t think he’s gonna guilt trip Selkie. Reprimand her, yeah, but I don’t think he’s gonna imply that she’s to blame for everything. Hopefully.
I can understand Todd not defending Selkie here as having just been made LIVID with her (see last panel of previous strip).
He’s not the type who would lash out in that situation but he clearly would like to say something along those lines. Todd is just letting the catharsis of Selkie being told off get the better of him.
Yeah, to me this seems like a way to allow this sort of thing to be said to Selkie — and drummed in memorably — without either of the adults stooping to saying it.
I still remember the time I overheard my dad say “Damn her” about something I’d done — and I’d simply misunderstood an instruction so that the furnace was off all night, and he thought I was sleeping when he said it, and of course he didn’t mean anything like “have God send her to Hell,” but it was devastating and I just lay there and tried to cry silently. There are some things that adults might want to say but should never say to children, regardless of the justification.
But having a similar sentiment expressed from a peer can accomplish a memorable yet non-traumatizing effect, and might help Selkie internalize the idea of not doing such a thing again.
Agreed – especially since she lied to him repeatedly on the car ride home. He doesn’t even know HOW she messed up yet, just that she had and kept it secret.
I know there’s a lot of controversial stuff going on in this page worth talking about.
But I just have to say I love the final panel, I am a big Skyrim fan. And as soon as I started reading it the voice from the game started saying it in my mind lol
As much as I dislike Benny, I must say, that being with Agent Brown I believe that he, more than 98%–99% of the Sarnothi, knows just how perilous and dangerous the Hignerint ‘meican Publik can be. I’m guessing that he was, with his Mom, one of the very first– if not the first family to be “placed” with a human family. And he knows, because of his clan, as Selkie does not, how hard it is, because “being green– easy it is not. Hmmm?”
The Green cannot be passed off as a skin condition as with selkie. At least there isa skin condition that does mimic Selkie’s skin color. I dont know of anything that might cover green. I mean short of the sin of sloth, that’s what turns them green, right? The sloths?
I was 90% sure Benny’s biological father was Behn, the Sarnothi that got carved up by the fishermen. went back and looked. Behn had two children. I think the names are too close to be a coincidence.
Benny’s old enough to know how the war started. A Sar’Teri dying was the start of this entire mess. Benny’s Clan was willing to let it pass, but the Jin’Sorai couldn’t just calm down and bear the ‘insult’.
And now, another Jin’Sorai has acted out, imperiling EVERY Sarnothi living above the waves.
Well, let’s see, we’ve been saying “Oh hey, Selkie’s only eight, it’s not right for the adults to expect her to perfectly keep an awesome secret like that.” And now Agent Smith has come up with the perfect age-appropriate punishment, far more effective than grounding.
No really guys, this isn’t bullying: this is a completely appropriate punishment given Selkie’s motives. She did the thing to impress her peers, and the best way to discourage that is mockery by peers. Bullying, even mild bullying, is not something that should generally be allowed, but compromising the secrecy of (what is more or less) magic itself for a few minutes of peer approval is worth this kind of punishment.
The high price Benny has to pay also makes it clear to him that this is not something he can get away with doing normally, even if he might think he’s getting away with it now. One taunt for an entire week of chores? Fifty-two taunts would be a whole year! In kid years!
Benny, buddy, at that exchange rate, why are you still smiling? Your father is clearly getting the better end of this deal. Oh well, this is how kids learn.
I absolutely agree, I wouldn’t just call this “bullying”, and this isn’t just some random stranger telling my kid this things, there is a relationship on both sides that warrant some mockery to be acceptable, specially with the degree of what happened, echos are kept from the general public for a very important reason, I wouldn’t want to become “Trunchbull” (or whatever the name of the parent that was defending his very large kid when he bullied Selkie) and stand up by my kid no matter what, she needs to learn consequences from her actions
Not being a stranger doesn’t make this any less bullying. You can be bullied, picked on, and mistreated by family/friends. This is literally unnecessary as heck and gross.
Also this isn’t how kids should face the consequences of their actions. If that were true, then AMANDA would’ve been subjected to something like this. But oh wait, she hasn’t. It’s just flat out gross and makes Todd look like an immature tool. I mean dude, Amanda is still getting away with treating Selkie the way she did.
It has to do with the personality of the child involved. I hesitate to use the word “maturity” because it is somewhat appropriate but dangerously misleading.
Amanda has a very different outlook on life where she feels persecuted and put-on by default, and further attack by an outside force would not be an admonition but a validation of her worldview. It would not help teach her, and would actively harm the absorption of a lesson.
Selkie by contrast has a sense of power and self-assuredness bordering on arrogance. More importantly, she has a sense of both pride and responsibility. Being mocked in this fashion attaches to both senses, bruising her pride by being forced to acknowledge fault and resonating guilt from her failure to uphold her responsibility. Whereas another child might focus on the fact that they are being mocked and feel insulted or attacked, Selkie will focus on the part that this vector of attack would not have been possible without her own error; she opened the door with her failure and brought this upon herself, and this mockery merely reinforces her mistake and prevents her from denying that it occurred.
Now, if you want to talk about Amanda “getting away with” treating Selkie as she had been… I’d apply some patience. There is no real point to her parents trying to react to the things they haven’t seen (if for no other reason, because it would be laughably ineffective) so they can only respond to how Amanda *continues* to treat Selkie, and they *have* been reacting to that and shaping that interaction going forward.
Back to Selkie and Benny though… I will agree that them knowing each other does not make it not bullying, but by the same measure: applying a criticism of someone’s actions in a rude way does not *become* bullying either. Interpersonal relationships are complicated and heavily reliant on context; almost every general statement that might be made about what does or does not constitute bullying will have an exception, and often that exception will be very broad.
If you think about how Selkie interacts with the world, she’s similar to the kind of person who would say “get rekt scrub”. She hasn’t used those literal words, but that sort of feeling is often contained in her villainous dialogues. Benny is reciprocating that feeling back to her in a situation she can recognize its justification; it is the clearest form of communication of a powerful concept.
That is a very interesting distinction. I wonder how well it works, in application.
Because, like, once you’ve screwed up, and acknowledged your mistake, then people rubbing your nose in it is inherently unfair.
And yet, equally, there are plenty of in-jokes that do that “remember that mistake you made 10 years ago? HA!” thing, but which are perfectly acceptable between/among those specific people, because it’s the way that they joke about things.
Kilyle, I think the point here is that up to this scene, Selkie has not yet acknowledged her mistake. She knows she made a bad choice but she is still trying to actively hide it from Todd and ignore it. She doesn’t even admit anything happened until Todd gets the text from Mina.
This isn’t someone rubbing her nose in it after she’s admitted her mistake.
This is someone bringing it home to her that she not only needs to admit it was a mistake but pointing out just how enormous of a mistake it truly was.
Bemny mocking Selkie, a child who has absolutely no authority or justification to do so is bullying. An adult not only allowing it but enabling it is even worse. Just because Selkie made a mistake does not mean any response to it is ok. This is very not ok. Very very not ok.
Oh cool, yet another lesson for Selkie on how no one, not teachers, peers, social workers, or government agents will ever step in to stop her being picked at and bullied. Seriously, when was the last time we saw Todd stand up for his Sarnothi kid, in her earshot? I cannot recall. It’s becoming a bit disheartening as a reader. Honestly, in universe, one wonders if the only reason Selkie hasn’t snapped is that she’s afraid Todd will give her back, now that he has his “real” daughter back.
As a former abused and bullied kid, this hits just a little too close to home.
Selkie does still have some issues left over from the time when she did worry about being given back. Maybe that’s connected to why she did this. All the same, she knows she messed up. Benny isn’t unfairly picking on her, he’s only saying what her own internal voice is already saying.
Eh, while I agree that she messed up, and that she needs to be talked to seriously about it, I do not find it appropriate that he is being allowed by his dad to taunt her.
Heh. Give Todd a moment, will you? He only just found out what her “totally normals days” fibbing was about, like, 30 seconds ago. All the evidence indicates that Benny actually summed it up rather accurately.
Don’t focus on the cussing. Todd won’t. The Smith family culture strongly discourages the use of foul language, but they think of it as a question of manners, not morals. They never treat a bad word as more important than what’s being said.
Also, I’m a generation or two behind you and I would react the same way. Especially since it’s not just someone else yelling at Selkie but Agent Smith bringing Benny along specifically to do so (even if he did believe the choice of words would be slightly different)
I agree with a lot of what guys and girls say on this, Brown allowing Benny to do that, it makes both of them look like Jackasses.
And truth be told this whole some Sarnothi’s can do magic/have supers powers thing, was going to come out Selkie or Selkie hell who’s to say another Sarnothi kid would not do it too.
I feel like Brown is sometimes about as useful as a one legged in man in a butt kicking contest.
Selkie showed off her glowing eyes to her peers in order to show off how awesome she is. Like she is the child of destiny. Thereby messing up tremendously.
Now, how do you think the message will be more clearly conveyed to her exactly how bad she messed up?
If adults tell her that? Like they always do?
Or if a peer told her that? The same sort of peers that she was trying to impress?
Man, Benny got some mixed messages out of Skyrim if he’s making stormcloak references (especially since they were the super racists of the game (not saying the imperials didn’t have their own issues, just less blatant racism on their end…for being invading conquerors (no good guys, only differently bad ones)))
But yeah, this is the opening to the actual discussion regarding everything that happened, so even if it is a little intense, it’s not the end all of how things are getting resolved (and given how Benny acted when they had interacted before, I’d be more surprised if Selkie wasn’t expecting something from him right off the bat)
So what this is telling *both* kids is that ethics are up for sale. How the heck is either of them supposed to believe that, say, it’s wrong for a politician to accept money to go against his or her constituents’ best interests when they’re allowed to “purchase” bad behavior themselves? And don’t give me the “peer pressure” thing. First, one of a parent’s biggest jobs is to teach their kids how and when to stand up to peer pressure. Second, it’s a pretty universally accepted theme that an employer who publicly calls out an employee’s mistake, rather than addressing it in private, is a bad employer. Benny should not have been present for this, much less allowed to taunt Selkie. Even if we set aside the ethics of it, this was a bad idea. Selkie now has every reason to go from feeling nervous and remorseful to feeling persecuted, humiliated, and angry – which has the potential to make this whole situation far worse. After all, she can be punished for not complying, but so far as we’ve seen, she can’t be *forced* to comply with the rules. Get a kid – or an adult – angry or resentful enough, and they often decide to disregard the probable consequences of expressing that resentment however they see fit. Todd needs to come down on Selkie for her actions, and *also* come down on Brown and Bennie for pulling that stunt. For that matter, Brown needs some serious PR training. And maybe some parenting lessons.
(and c’mon .. a week of extra chores? Really? “Hey, I’ll wash the car and rake the leaves and take out the trash for you this week if you let me badmouth the kid I’m supposed to be trying to get along with.” “Sure, Benny, that’s a great offer. Just keep it clean.” Puh-lease. If my kids tried that, those wouldn’t *be* extra chores anymore; they’d be *his* chores! Extra chores are to earn privileges and extra spending money. Taunting someone isn’t a privilege; it’s a misbehavior. Period.)
Dude, my bullying was getting shoved under a table and beaten. Having my glasses constantly stolen, which, if you don’t have glasses, is not only infuriating, but it physically hurts to go extended periods being functionally blind. I got my pants ripped open in the middle of the halls once.
I’d have LOVED this weak-ass “bullying” when I was a kid. It sounds like a hell of a fucking relief.
This is weak-ass shit. I’d have been glad to get this crap instead of the beating, the pantsing, having my glasses stolen off my face despite having like 20/200-20/300 vision at the time.
If you think this is serious cause for concern, you need to sit down and re-evaluate your shit, because this is light-hearted banter AT WORST
Those of you trying to call out for bullying here, stop putting yourself in Selkie’s shoes. She is not the same as you. She is a snarky, independent, budding-mad scientist. How she will take this matters. Agent Brown knows her well enough to know how she will react to Benny doing this. If he thought she’d react badly to it, Benny wouldn’t have been allowed to do this no matter how many extra chores he would do.
I was bullied as a kid. If something like this had been said to me, it totally would have been bullying, because I was not a snarky, independent, budding mad-scientist as a kid. I was a church mouse book-worm. Completely different personality. However, I can recognize that this reaction given to a kid with Selkie’s personality by an older-sibling figure is probably exactly what Selkie needed right now.
Okay okay, I *know* in the grand scheme of things it’s really not nice, appropriate, or helpful for anyone to say that to Selkie – especially in those terms which at least Agent Brown did jump on Benny for.
But.
I absolutely couldn’t help but laugh my rear end off at this update, especially that face in Panel 3.
I’ve never heard a reason why children shouldn’t swear that didn’t boil down to ‘it makes me look bad when you swear’, or perhaps that it disrespects the parent to swear in front of them, as its language reserved for your pears or inferiors. But that second one is still pretty messed up.
My base principle with kids swearing is “you don’t yet have a feel for what’s an appropriate level of swearing for a given situation,” coupled with “you seriously don’t want to make swearing a knee-jerk habit; you want to reserve swears for times when no other terms will adequately convey what you want to convey.”
So like, adults would tend to understand that most people should never use the term “nigger,” that most of those who do are doing a bad thing, that some portion of those who do are doing an okay thing (reclaiming an insult, much as we reclaimed “yankees” or the LGBTQ crowd reclaimed “queer”), and that there’s a level of social awareness required to figure out which group you’re in, whether or not you can/should use it, when and how you can use it and with/about whom, etc.
But to a kid, it’s just “this is a Big Bad Word that everybody reacts to! lemme use it ALL THE TIME!”
Same reason a kid might do other anti-social things, because it makes the adults act funny.
So, basically, we teach kids “these words are words that kids should not use” until such time as the kids are old enough to understand the “when and how to use them” part. Which doesn’t cut out all inappropriate usage, but cuts it down to a manageable level.
Consider it the verbal equivalent of teaching kids “never punch someone” or “never disobey your teacher/coach/authority figure.” There are definitely times when you should punch or even kill someone — but a kid doesn’t know how to judge the situation enough to know when a punch is warranted. There are definitely times when you should not obey authority figures — but this requires a level of judgment that children don’t have. So we teach a baseline rule first, and the nuances of it later.
We learn language through practice. That logic only holds if you encourage the kid to swear when appropriate. Otherwise, it’s fetishizing these special words which they are FORBIDDEN!
To a kid it’s something they aren’t allowed to do for literally no reason. And the anti-social things? It’s called ‘learning how to express yourself’ for a reason. To suggest that kids act out just for attention is like saying adults have affairs for attention, or wish they could drive sports cars for attention. Egos and even vanity go beyond wanting to feel like the center of attention. Egos, our pride and shame and fears, are kind of a big deal, and you don’t just suddenly have them one day.
They’re 8 and 13, not 3.
Kids are people.
WTF?!? There’s literally no justification for Agent Brown allowing Benny to do that. It’s straight up bullying. And no matter how angry or upset Todd is he should be ripping Agent Brown a new one for this not agreeing with him.
That’s not bullying… if you believe that’s bullying I would say you’ve never being in the receiving end of bullying.
Also, pointing out your kid F*D up, although it was very rude to put it that way, isn’t wrong, you need to make your kids accountable for their mistakes, if you think you’re doing your kid a favor by siding with him when he messes up, you’re not, and it’s bad parenting.
He’s an edgy teen and Todd knows this, and haves a relationship with the family, if this came from anyone else I would get you, but current circumstances wouldn’t make me side with my kid, I wouldn’t be helping my kid at all if I did that.
Putting all those things aside, focusing on making my kid understand “why” he messed up and the consequences is very much priority over everything else, this things are fresh right now and it needs to happen right now else my kid will believe it’s “just a mistake” there are things that aren’t “just a mistake” and Selki needs to understand that.
1. You’d lose that bet, hard.
2. Yes, it is absolutely 100% bullying. A kid mocking and insulting another, younger kid like that, especially in a situation where they are allowed to by an adult is completely bullying and completely unacceptable. Under NO circumstances was Agent Smith putting Selkie in that situation even remotely justifiable. He’s a fucking professional, this is supposed to be his damn job, and he’s making chore deals with his kid to allow the kid to harass someone? Agent Smith should face professional discipline for that kind of horrible lapse in judgement.
And Todd’s response? A complete failure as a parent to simply agree with that and not fire back at Agent Smith for his utterly unprofessional actions.
Whether or not Selkie screwed up (and honestly, was it ever discussed that the Echo thing was supppsed to be Top Secret) is beside the point in how this was handled. Smith may have professional justification to let Selkie know that she messed up and discuss the consequences, but not like this. Never in a million years like this. She’s a kid who has being used as a guinea pig/pawn by any number of adults, pushed into a situation with other scared kids and very little has actually been done to prepare any of them for it. She messed up? Hardly shocking given the behavior of the “adults” in how badly they’ve all handled the whole Sarnothi situation.
But even if none of that were true, even if she’d screwed up 100% on her own. Agent Smith allowing Benny to be there/do that is utterly unjustified.
Actually as a parent I have to say I’d probably welcome Benny in this instance. Sometimes peer response brings a point home a lot better than just hearing the adults say it again and again.
Also I have to agree with HentMas. This does not qualify as bullying to me. While the choice of language is not the most appropriate, Benny’s reaction, PLUS the information of what Benny is doing in order to get the right to give that reaction (all the extra chores) reinforces how big of a deal this is. This is more of a familial/community response. Something that I think reflects well the change in relationship between Agent Smith (and his whole family) and Selkie’s family.
Now if this line were delivered by an adult Or even if Benny gave that response without being taken to task for his word choice/way of delivering the message yes it would be bullying. In this case though it feels right and true to all the characters as they have been written.
Familial/community – that is precisely the problem. Todd is Selkie’s family, and as her parent it is his duty to punish her for misdeeds. Agent Smith is community, and while he has never before punished Selkie for anything, he can at least claim some right to do so.
But what is Benny doing here?
He’s not Selkie’s caregiver. He’s not here in any official responsibility. He’s not here as Selkie’s friend because as far as I recall the two barely speak to each other. He wasn’t present at the incident, which raises some alarming questions about how he even knew about it, but however that happened he has no direct connection to the incident. He’s not even trying to stand up for what’s right. As far as I can tell, his entire interest in being here is that he heard that Selkie was in trouble and decided to jump on the “Let’s yell at Selkie” wagon.
I don’t know if you’d call that bullying. I’d call it a nasty step away from rule by authority and toward oppression by mob. If I were in Todd’s place, I’d be mad at Benny right now, and Agent Smith for supporting him.
(My parents got tired of their children mobbing siblings like this, so they made a rule. In case of a real-world mob, the morally correct choice would be to support the oppressed party. Therefore, every time anyone in our family tried mobbing, the mobber took on half of the sibling’s punishment.)
Agree with you there – Professor Trunchbull did the very same, when he protected his kid, when Tommy get in that fight his old school. It made him think it’s right to do, what he wants, without any consequences – essentially making HIM into a bully.
Oh come on! Do you know how hard it is to get your kid to do chores? 😉
I did *my* chores without needing to negotiate. Granted, I was paid for it (allowance), but still…
You got PAID!!!???
Zangief.jpg
But thing is, it was an *extra* week of chores, so he might have lighter chores to do depending on when.
That’s not really necessary and is even effing childish for someone of Benny’s age. Especially for Agent Brown to allow. Like really? REALLY?
Todd telling her that it wasn’t okay is one thing. Bullying a younger kid? The frickin’ frack are they thinking? Also Todd’s ‘he’s not wrong’? What? Why? Who would let someone do that? My Mom would never let anyone pick on me even if I’ve messed up. No matter how much I messed up.
This isn’t bullying. If you actually think telling someone off when they messed up is bullying you have a real misinformed view on what bullying is.
Agent Brown also immediately reprimanded him when he said ‘fucked’ up instead of ‘messed’ up.
Also, this isn’t just any kind of messed up. This is “possibility for war” level of messed up. If Todd were to defend Selkie in this, he would be the new worst parent of this comic.
I wouldn’t call that bullying, personally. I’ve been bullied and I count teasing bullying as different things. Bullying is downright malicious with the intent to harm. Teasing is a sort of in your face and taunting thing, but not malicious and is usually being ignorant. Benny is being a snarky little shit, but honestly, it’s no worse than how Selkie taunted Tehk about being better than he is because she has flame eyes and he doesn’t. While she’s kind of a little shit in her own right for implying her powers make her better than someone else and using that to make him think he’s lesser than she is, I don’t think her or Benny’s actions were malicious. Just… them being sarcastic, smug assholes. Time and time again we’ve been shown that both Benny and Selkie are smug, snarky and have anger issues when they don’t get their way, but that doesn’t make them evil. They’re not horrific bullies, they’re just… kind of dramatic and self centered kids right now.
It’s really weird Agent Brown allowed Benny to do that, but I suppose that lends credit to him not being too upset at Selkie, otherwise he would have been a lot more stern about the entire thing. I don’t think he’s gonna lay into a kid for… well, being a stupid kid who decided spiting another kid was worth more than keeping government secrets. He’s not gonna be happy, but I at the very least don’t think he’s gonna guilt trip Selkie. Reprimand her, yeah, but I don’t think he’s gonna imply that she’s to blame for everything. Hopefully.
I can understand Todd not defending Selkie here as having just been made LIVID with her (see last panel of previous strip).
He’s not the type who would lash out in that situation but he clearly would like to say something along those lines. Todd is just letting the catharsis of Selkie being told off get the better of him.
Yeah, to me this seems like a way to allow this sort of thing to be said to Selkie — and drummed in memorably — without either of the adults stooping to saying it.
I still remember the time I overheard my dad say “Damn her” about something I’d done — and I’d simply misunderstood an instruction so that the furnace was off all night, and he thought I was sleeping when he said it, and of course he didn’t mean anything like “have God send her to Hell,” but it was devastating and I just lay there and tried to cry silently. There are some things that adults might want to say but should never say to children, regardless of the justification.
But having a similar sentiment expressed from a peer can accomplish a memorable yet non-traumatizing effect, and might help Selkie internalize the idea of not doing such a thing again.
Agreed – especially since she lied to him repeatedly on the car ride home. He doesn’t even know HOW she messed up yet, just that she had and kept it secret.
I know there’s a lot of controversial stuff going on in this page worth talking about.
But I just have to say I love the final panel, I am a big Skyrim fan. And as soon as I started reading it the voice from the game started saying it in my mind lol
As much as I dislike Benny, I must say, that being with Agent Brown I believe that he, more than 98%–99% of the Sarnothi, knows just how perilous and dangerous the Hignerint ‘meican Publik can be. I’m guessing that he was, with his Mom, one of the very first– if not the first family to be “placed” with a human family. And he knows, because of his clan, as Selkie does not, how hard it is, because “being green– easy it is not. Hmmm?”
The Green cannot be passed off as a skin condition as with selkie. At least there isa skin condition that does mimic Selkie’s skin color. I dont know of anything that might cover green. I mean short of the sin of sloth, that’s what turns them green, right? The sloths?
I was 90% sure Benny’s biological father was Behn, the Sarnothi that got carved up by the fishermen. went back and looked. Behn had two children. I think the names are too close to be a coincidence.
Benny’s old enough to know how the war started. A Sar’Teri dying was the start of this entire mess. Benny’s Clan was willing to let it pass, but the Jin’Sorai couldn’t just calm down and bear the ‘insult’.
And now, another Jin’Sorai has acted out, imperiling EVERY Sarnothi living above the waves.
Yes, he is Behn’s child. It’s been confirmed.
That’s kinda worse.
What happened to Pe Geh?
Well, let’s see, we’ve been saying “Oh hey, Selkie’s only eight, it’s not right for the adults to expect her to perfectly keep an awesome secret like that.” And now Agent Smith has come up with the perfect age-appropriate punishment, far more effective than grounding.
No really guys, this isn’t bullying: this is a completely appropriate punishment given Selkie’s motives. She did the thing to impress her peers, and the best way to discourage that is mockery by peers. Bullying, even mild bullying, is not something that should generally be allowed, but compromising the secrecy of (what is more or less) magic itself for a few minutes of peer approval is worth this kind of punishment.
The high price Benny has to pay also makes it clear to him that this is not something he can get away with doing normally, even if he might think he’s getting away with it now. One taunt for an entire week of chores? Fifty-two taunts would be a whole year! In kid years!
Benny, buddy, at that exchange rate, why are you still smiling? Your father is clearly getting the better end of this deal. Oh well, this is how kids learn.
…and while I was typing, you said it better than me.
I absolutely agree, I wouldn’t just call this “bullying”, and this isn’t just some random stranger telling my kid this things, there is a relationship on both sides that warrant some mockery to be acceptable, specially with the degree of what happened, echos are kept from the general public for a very important reason, I wouldn’t want to become “Trunchbull” (or whatever the name of the parent that was defending his very large kid when he bullied Selkie) and stand up by my kid no matter what, she needs to learn consequences from her actions
Not being a stranger doesn’t make this any less bullying. You can be bullied, picked on, and mistreated by family/friends. This is literally unnecessary as heck and gross.
Also this isn’t how kids should face the consequences of their actions. If that were true, then AMANDA would’ve been subjected to something like this. But oh wait, she hasn’t. It’s just flat out gross and makes Todd look like an immature tool. I mean dude, Amanda is still getting away with treating Selkie the way she did.
It has to do with the personality of the child involved. I hesitate to use the word “maturity” because it is somewhat appropriate but dangerously misleading.
Amanda has a very different outlook on life where she feels persecuted and put-on by default, and further attack by an outside force would not be an admonition but a validation of her worldview. It would not help teach her, and would actively harm the absorption of a lesson.
Selkie by contrast has a sense of power and self-assuredness bordering on arrogance. More importantly, she has a sense of both pride and responsibility. Being mocked in this fashion attaches to both senses, bruising her pride by being forced to acknowledge fault and resonating guilt from her failure to uphold her responsibility. Whereas another child might focus on the fact that they are being mocked and feel insulted or attacked, Selkie will focus on the part that this vector of attack would not have been possible without her own error; she opened the door with her failure and brought this upon herself, and this mockery merely reinforces her mistake and prevents her from denying that it occurred.
Now, if you want to talk about Amanda “getting away with” treating Selkie as she had been… I’d apply some patience. There is no real point to her parents trying to react to the things they haven’t seen (if for no other reason, because it would be laughably ineffective) so they can only respond to how Amanda *continues* to treat Selkie, and they *have* been reacting to that and shaping that interaction going forward.
Back to Selkie and Benny though… I will agree that them knowing each other does not make it not bullying, but by the same measure: applying a criticism of someone’s actions in a rude way does not *become* bullying either. Interpersonal relationships are complicated and heavily reliant on context; almost every general statement that might be made about what does or does not constitute bullying will have an exception, and often that exception will be very broad.
If you think about how Selkie interacts with the world, she’s similar to the kind of person who would say “get rekt scrub”. She hasn’t used those literal words, but that sort of feeling is often contained in her villainous dialogues. Benny is reciprocating that feeling back to her in a situation she can recognize its justification; it is the clearest form of communication of a powerful concept.
This isn’t bullying. The essence of bullying is that it is unfair. This isn’t.
Selkie did fuck up in a big way. Sure, having Benny tell her so is really unpleasant, but she totally knows she deserves it.
That is a very interesting distinction. I wonder how well it works, in application.
Because, like, once you’ve screwed up, and acknowledged your mistake, then people rubbing your nose in it is inherently unfair.
And yet, equally, there are plenty of in-jokes that do that “remember that mistake you made 10 years ago? HA!” thing, but which are perfectly acceptable between/among those specific people, because it’s the way that they joke about things.
Kilyle, I think the point here is that up to this scene, Selkie has not yet acknowledged her mistake. She knows she made a bad choice but she is still trying to actively hide it from Todd and ignore it. She doesn’t even admit anything happened until Todd gets the text from Mina.
This isn’t someone rubbing her nose in it after she’s admitted her mistake.
This is someone bringing it home to her that she not only needs to admit it was a mistake but pointing out just how enormous of a mistake it truly was.
Bemny mocking Selkie, a child who has absolutely no authority or justification to do so is bullying. An adult not only allowing it but enabling it is even worse. Just because Selkie made a mistake does not mean any response to it is ok. This is very not ok. Very very not ok.
Oh cool, yet another lesson for Selkie on how no one, not teachers, peers, social workers, or government agents will ever step in to stop her being picked at and bullied. Seriously, when was the last time we saw Todd stand up for his Sarnothi kid, in her earshot? I cannot recall. It’s becoming a bit disheartening as a reader. Honestly, in universe, one wonders if the only reason Selkie hasn’t snapped is that she’s afraid Todd will give her back, now that he has his “real” daughter back.
As a former abused and bullied kid, this hits just a little too close to home.
Selkie does still have some issues left over from the time when she did worry about being given back. Maybe that’s connected to why she did this. All the same, she knows she messed up. Benny isn’t unfairly picking on her, he’s only saying what her own internal voice is already saying.
Eh, while I agree that she messed up, and that she needs to be talked to seriously about it, I do not find it appropriate that he is being allowed by his dad to taunt her.
Maybe it’s a generation thing. I’m in my 60s. A grouchy old fart. And if MY KID screwed the pooch, I’d let her know.
If somebody else got up in her face yelling YOU DONE FUCKED UP!!, I’d backhand him across the room. Who the hell you think you are, cussing at my kid?
And as for ol’ Agent Orange there – you handle YOUR kid, and leave raising MINE to me.
Heh. Give Todd a moment, will you? He only just found out what her “totally normals days” fibbing was about, like, 30 seconds ago. All the evidence indicates that Benny actually summed it up rather accurately.
Don’t focus on the cussing. Todd won’t. The Smith family culture strongly discourages the use of foul language, but they think of it as a question of manners, not morals. They never treat a bad word as more important than what’s being said.
Also, I’m a generation or two behind you and I would react the same way. Especially since it’s not just someone else yelling at Selkie but Agent Smith bringing Benny along specifically to do so (even if he did believe the choice of words would be slightly different)
Elementary school teacher chiming in:
Sometimes kids need to hear unpleasant truths from other kids. Was he polite about it? No, but that’s not always necessary.
I agree with a lot of what guys and girls say on this, Brown allowing Benny to do that, it makes both of them look like Jackasses.
And truth be told this whole some Sarnothi’s can do magic/have supers powers thing, was going to come out Selkie or Selkie hell who’s to say another Sarnothi kid would not do it too.
I feel like Brown is sometimes about as useful as a one legged in man in a butt kicking contest.
YEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSS THE SKYRIM REFERENCE!!!!
That WAS just about perfect, wasn’t it?
^_^
Hi, Sam Manista, Daily Bugle. One question, quick question, Why the *Honk* is Benny even there!?
As far as it’s concerned, the last thing the Sarnathie need in these trying times need are each other.
Selkie showed off her glowing eyes to her peers in order to show off how awesome she is. Like she is the child of destiny. Thereby messing up tremendously.
Now, how do you think the message will be more clearly conveyed to her exactly how bad she messed up?
If adults tell her that? Like they always do?
Or if a peer told her that? The same sort of peers that she was trying to impress?
Man, Benny got some mixed messages out of Skyrim if he’s making stormcloak references (especially since they were the super racists of the game (not saying the imperials didn’t have their own issues, just less blatant racism on their end…for being invading conquerors (no good guys, only differently bad ones)))
But yeah, this is the opening to the actual discussion regarding everything that happened, so even if it is a little intense, it’s not the end all of how things are getting resolved (and given how Benny acted when they had interacted before, I’d be more surprised if Selkie wasn’t expecting something from him right off the bat)
Call me lazy, but I would never value the minute pleasure of gloating over the immense discomfort of labor.
Holy Cow, when did Benny undergo the growth spurt?
So what this is telling *both* kids is that ethics are up for sale. How the heck is either of them supposed to believe that, say, it’s wrong for a politician to accept money to go against his or her constituents’ best interests when they’re allowed to “purchase” bad behavior themselves? And don’t give me the “peer pressure” thing. First, one of a parent’s biggest jobs is to teach their kids how and when to stand up to peer pressure. Second, it’s a pretty universally accepted theme that an employer who publicly calls out an employee’s mistake, rather than addressing it in private, is a bad employer. Benny should not have been present for this, much less allowed to taunt Selkie. Even if we set aside the ethics of it, this was a bad idea. Selkie now has every reason to go from feeling nervous and remorseful to feeling persecuted, humiliated, and angry – which has the potential to make this whole situation far worse. After all, she can be punished for not complying, but so far as we’ve seen, she can’t be *forced* to comply with the rules. Get a kid – or an adult – angry or resentful enough, and they often decide to disregard the probable consequences of expressing that resentment however they see fit. Todd needs to come down on Selkie for her actions, and *also* come down on Brown and Bennie for pulling that stunt. For that matter, Brown needs some serious PR training. And maybe some parenting lessons.
(and c’mon .. a week of extra chores? Really? “Hey, I’ll wash the car and rake the leaves and take out the trash for you this week if you let me badmouth the kid I’m supposed to be trying to get along with.” “Sure, Benny, that’s a great offer. Just keep it clean.” Puh-lease. If my kids tried that, those wouldn’t *be* extra chores anymore; they’d be *his* chores! Extra chores are to earn privileges and extra spending money. Taunting someone isn’t a privilege; it’s a misbehavior. Period.)
Dude, my bullying was getting shoved under a table and beaten. Having my glasses constantly stolen, which, if you don’t have glasses, is not only infuriating, but it physically hurts to go extended periods being functionally blind. I got my pants ripped open in the middle of the halls once.
I’d have LOVED this weak-ass “bullying” when I was a kid. It sounds like a hell of a fucking relief.
Man, y’all are some thin-skinned folks here.
This is weak-ass shit. I’d have been glad to get this crap instead of the beating, the pantsing, having my glasses stolen off my face despite having like 20/200-20/300 vision at the time.
If you think this is serious cause for concern, you need to sit down and re-evaluate your shit, because this is light-hearted banter AT WORST
Those of you trying to call out for bullying here, stop putting yourself in Selkie’s shoes. She is not the same as you. She is a snarky, independent, budding-mad scientist. How she will take this matters. Agent Brown knows her well enough to know how she will react to Benny doing this. If he thought she’d react badly to it, Benny wouldn’t have been allowed to do this no matter how many extra chores he would do.
I was bullied as a kid. If something like this had been said to me, it totally would have been bullying, because I was not a snarky, independent, budding mad-scientist as a kid. I was a church mouse book-worm. Completely different personality. However, I can recognize that this reaction given to a kid with Selkie’s personality by an older-sibling figure is probably exactly what Selkie needed right now.