Just a heads up, the next Selkie strip will be on Wednesday, June 29. I am out of town and won’t be able to make Monday’s update.
In earlier drafts, Plo Quar had been a close friend of the De'Madieas, in other drafts she had escorted them out of Sarnoth and defended them from enemy soldiers. I chose not to go with the route of a personal relationship, but they're still aware of her existence.
Doesn’t sound like the “Selkie’s mom” we’ve seen… The one where she took her daughter TO the very humans she was supposedly fighting against and hated with her very breath, according to mass media? Perhaps not all the story is laid out? Perhaps she is a scapegoat? Hm…
I don’t think she was fighting against humans, I think she was fighting against the other Sarnothi because the Sar’Teri attacked the Jin’Sorai and devastated them.
Remember, the Sar’Teri have been maintaining ‘peace’ with threat of violence similar to what they dealt upon the Jin’Sorai.
This is a civil war, not a war against the humans. The humans have granted sanctuary to the Sarnothi that need it.
You have to remember, mass media tends to create a distorted picture of people and cultures. Many Muslims believe that Westerners practice witchcraft. Many westerners have a picture that the entire religion of of Islam involves them sacrificing babies daily. Closer to the truth is that, yes, it is a violent religion but there are people who are enablers, who sit by in fear and that is what allows the violent elements to take over.
Extend this principle to mass media of a person, and you get an idea. One person’s messiah is another one’s heretic, thanks to good or bad press.
Oh, I know the power of media đ I am referring to the need for maybe a recap? After the humans killed a member of the Sarnothi people, didn’t Selkie’s clan wish to retaliate and that is when the other clan attacked them? So did they continue to blame their own people and attack them but were eventually forced to flee? Or did they want to outright attack all humans and then were chased out of Sarnoth?
Either way, what a switch if Selkie’s clan “hated” humans and then had to go running to them, eh?
Not to get into faith politics in a comic thread, but Islam is NOT a violent religion. There are violent people who follow that faith and extremist sects – exactly like every other major religion on the planet. ITs very very sad that basically a bunch of political extremest have managed to create that impression.
It is no more fair to call Islam violent because of terrorism perpetrated by Muslims engaged in various civil wars, political struggles, etc. than it it is to call Catholicism violent because of terrorist acts perpetrated by Catholics from Ireland during that struggle. Not saying its OK – anything but – just that violence may have religious affiliations and motivations, without being an inherent part of a faith tradition.
Most religions are inherently violent, but most modern religious people also pick and choose bits and pieces, and luckily only adhere to the acceptable bits about loving thy neighbor while ignoring the crap about stoning infidels and not eating figs.
I’ve been good friends with about 3-4 Muslims, and they were kind and peaceful. They didn’t even view the extremists as the same religion. I bet lots of good Christians feel the same way about extremists who call themselves Christian as well.
Regardless of what religion they claim to be, it would be great if all violent, hateful adult people were sterilized and boot onto a remote island together. Then they can kill each other to their delight and leave the rest of the world in peace. I know it’s impossible to wish for, but it feels so good doing so.
So it’s “The Sar’Teri say she’s a criminal.” That’s a bit of a relief. No matter what she did, I understand her running. Somehow the Sar’Teri come across as the type that’s give the same punishment for ‘shot the President” snd “shortsheeted the President’s bed”.
*that’d. I need to proofread better…
Well… well, this still leaves a lot to be explained. She’s not necessarily evil or bad… yet. As far as we know. Or maybe she was very bad and felt bad about her previous actions after fleeing and coming to the surface and actually meeting some humans. Media certainly tends to portray things incorrectly, but there’s always a grain of truth to it. She probably did do some terrible things, but she might have changed her ways after realizing how wrong she was.
I dunno, there’s still so little information to go on. I definitely like the whole, ‘Selkie comes from war criminals’ route over a princess route though. It’s terribly interesting and unique compared to that clichĂ©d trope.
At the very least, her mother isn’t slaughtering humans on the surface so clearly something changed.
Or it could be the whole twin sister thing. I’m kinda hoping it’s mot, because that’s also a trope I’m not wanting to rear it’s ugly head, but it’s a possibility given how she suddenly reappeared in guerilla battles. Seems awfully strange.
Or, something personal happened to her to change her mind about previously being a peacekeeper, like the annihilation of her clan perhaps, that caused her to defect to the other side.
“Media certainly tends to portray things incorrectly, but thereâs always a grain of truth to it.”
Except for when there isn’t. Mass Media can be very uncritical of official lies. It can even be knowingly complicit: witness the run-up to the Gulf War after 9/11. Saddam Hussein did not have any weapons of mass destruction. None. At all. Zilch. And he had nothing to do with Al Qaeda. The US government knew that very well. Anyone who cared to read world news (as I did) would also have come to that conclusion. But Cheney and his cohorts wanted to exploit American rage and fear over the destruction of the World Trade Center to get the war they really wanted, with Iraq.
I was there. I watched it happen, in helpless dismay. Even the most respectable of American news channels — even the New York Times, who you’d think would have had journalistic standards — obediently fell in line with patently obvious lies. Were they duped? Some of the reporters were, perhaps. In part. But they ALL deliberately closed their eyes to any evidence that contradicted the official story. The furthest any of them ever went was, “Oh, um, the truth must lie somewhere in between. We’ll just say that, uh, maybe Saddam doesn’t have as many WMDs?”
Single-payer health care IS better, achieving better health outcomes for more people at far lower costs. US Social Security ISN’T on the verge of bankruptcy.
If one person says white, another says black, it is a cop-out to say, “Oh, I don’t want to call anyone a liar because then they wouldn’t like me any more. It must be gray!” Sometimes there is no gray. Sometimes it really truly IS black and the person shouting WHITE is out and out lying.
Er, woops, that triggered one of my major RANT buttons. It wasn’t aimed at you, Spring Pop! And I don’t want to derail these discussions into politics. My bad. Sorry, Dave, I apologize…. Alas, once I hit Post here, there’s no edit. Please, guys, if you want to disagree with me, that’s fine, but I won’t compound my mistake by arguing back.
I mostly meant that there’s a grain of truth to ecerything but said truth can be misinterpreted or twisted to fit what the person wants. I just meant somewhere there is a reason for what happened. What we see isn’t necessarily the truth, but something sparked it and it usually gets construed to something else. Doesn’t mean that initially someone wasn’t killed by someone else, we just don’t know the circumstances of what actually happened, but something did indeed happen.
I have to say this is actually one reason why I like this comment. Even in heated discussions where people have extremely strong beliefs – I saw people stating their opinion, but no where did anyone call someone a name or specifically belittle someone else. Thank you (both) for being more mature than most other comment boards I have visited.
Side note. Obligatory, ‘Sharks with friggin’ lasers on their friggin’ heads’ joke.
Selkie’s mom is freaking badass! đ
Oh, Behave!!…
The only thought I currently have to contribute is that I noticed in panel one Sai Fen’s bracers are missing…
You’re right. It would have made sense for Sai Fen to have quickly put them away before calling Todd and Selkie in, but on the previous page we see that she didn’t do that. (And I don’t want her to have, because I love the composition of the previous page’s last panel!) So she really ought to be wearing them still on this page!
Ma’Chien?
She’s… NOT a Sar’Teri?
But… But I thought…
Sar’Teri is her clan (which are more caste than familial) , Ma’Chien is her surname. Like how the De’Madiea family are from the Tel’Dora clan.
Actually I’m pretty sure she’s Jin’Sorai.
Your right, I meant Jin’Sorai lol!
This is what I get for posting at 1:54 am.
You’re*
Okay two things!
1 – I’m gonna light the Dave Signalâą and ask if you can settle a debate between me and the sisters. How do you pronounce Selkie’s birth name? Is it nay-LEE, NEE-lee, or NYE-lee? Or are all of us wrong?
2 – I have a fan theory unrelated to the above! Some have expressed confusion about Plo Quar having given up her daughter to humans, in spite of having fought them. I believe Plo Quar didn’t fight humans at all– she fought other Sarnothi.
If she was fighting alongside the Sar’Teri peacekeepers, then she was on their side of the civil war, preventing attacks on the humans. Then, when the fighting “escalated”, that’s when the Sar’Teri wiped out the Jin’Suir province. I’m sure that Selkie’s momma, as a Jin Sorai, was ROYALLY PISSED that they destroyed her homeland. So when she switched sides, she may not have been fighting humans, but instead retaliating against the brutal Sar’Teri.
Then, there’s her daughter. When did she become pregnant with Selkie, I wonder? Was she born in Sarnoth, or in the refugee camp? Was she given up to hide her from the Sar’Teri, before Plo Quar decided to turn fight against them? Or did she do it when she was on the run? Does anyone in Sarnoth know that Plo Quar has a daughter?
So many questions! I can’t wait to see how this unfolds.
I agree with you that she was on the side of not attacking the humans until the Jin Sorai were almost eradicated. It would make sense if she was trying to prevent all out destruction that she wouldn’t view the destruction of a whole clan favorably. It could even be possible that she lost family during that destruction. Trying to be a peaceful people and then destroying a whole city doesn’t fully add up.
The other question about Selkie is who is her father and what clan is he from? It might be interesting if Selkie wasn’t from just one clan, but two, which I only state as a possibility if it happened after the destruction of Jin’Suir and Plo Quar joining the rebels. Even if he isn’t from a different clan, what happened to him would still be interesting to know.
Indeed! On all counts! And I too am curious about Selkie’s father. Also, great profile pic:)
I do hope the Sarnothi that was caught by humans some time ago was not Selkie’s father. That would add a sad layer to her story.
If memory serves, Selkie herself spelled it phonetically as “Neigh Lee”.
Important to remember that one side’s guerilla fighter is another side’s war criminal. Civil wars are never civil.
Was going to say “one man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter”. Also history is written by the victors I.E.the Sar’Teri
“Well, if crime fighters fight crime and fire fighters fight fire, what do freedom fighters fight? They never mention that part to us, do they?” – George Carlin
Man…this is just so sad.
Fits my hypothesis on “to the Victor goes the history books”. The mass media is always controlled by the winning side.
So true, Laughing Target.
Though, to be fair, the losing side tends to shred a lot of the records!
Where is Selkie’s father? If he was a casualty when the fighting “escalated”, that might help explain Plo Quar going rogue. And perhaps she placed Selkie with the humans for safety before going out to seek vengeance/defend the last of her race.
Huh, so it turned out to be a combination of the various theories around her “war criminal” status.
We’ve got former ranking peacekeeper (public figure) went rogue during the civil war (that’d be the atrocity/bad whatever) somehow got filmed in a number of geurilla skirmishes (impressive work on the camera people, unless something was staged) and is now a face to put to “the enemy” (scapegoat). Unless her skirmishes involved burning down orphanages, I’m thinking (hoping) that during the escalation of the civil war she learned/witnessed something that gave her good cause to switch sides & become this boogeyman the government seems to have made her out to be.
And now, the waiting begins (continues)
Oh, now they have laser guns? Jesus.
They actually showed such a beam weapon being used when they explained the fall of the JinâSorai.
Sai Fen also used a similar object as a cutting tool for her sculptures.
and that’s a point to consider over why we haven’t nuked them already, being the xenophobic whack-jobs that us Humans are known to be…
especially when you consider the ANGLE at which the city-state building was shown to be hit from… from above aiming downwards… much like it would be from a surface craft or from orbit… yes it might have just been from somewhere just barely out of camera-view above that particular building but still under water, but wheres the fun in that?
Projectile weapons under water will be very mediocre without significant force (think torpedoes) because of the density of water. IF you need to harm someone from far away, you need another option.
So I just notice this. Why is Selkie the only one without eye markings on her face?
Young Sarnothi don’t have markings. They get them when they mature into adulthood.
I agree that it’s a bit much for the De’Madieas to know her personally, but what about a compromise? What if Plo Quar’s resistance fighters helped the De’Madieas escape, but they never actually met her personally?
Okay, folks a LOT of you need to go back to the archives and re-READ the story. Selkie is a civil-war orphan. The Sarnothi on the surface are refugees taken in by human government(s)n (we only know about America, Possibly Canada has done so as well). no one is fighting humans, no one ever WAS. Some human fishermen caught and “processed” a sarnothi.
The Sarnothi went to war with *themselves* over the question of what to *do* about the humans. Selkie’s clan got exterminated because they advocated a peaceful “forgive and forget” policy. It was a compelling argument, since the victim was from their clan. The other clans were wiling to go along with it, but one, Sar’ Teri called them traitors, and wiped them out. They now control the city with military, and some members of the other remaining clans are fighting a Resistance.
I may have a few details wrong, I haven’t gone back through the story in a while.
I’ve said it like three times: Selkie’s clan was not the peaceful one, they were the ones arguing for retribution. The Sar’Teri didn’t want to escalate against humans and THEIRS was the clan the victim was from, but WERE perfectly willing to escalate against the Jin’Sorai.
Well, the Jin’Sorai were the ones who wanted blood for blood against the humans, so to speak. They DID call for vengeance, but the Sar’Teri, as Regalli stated, were the ones who wanted to call it an accident and not start a war even though one of their own was the casualty. It was only when it became apparent that the Jin’Sorai were going to try and take matters into their own hands and get their vengeance that the Sar’Teri struck them down.
So, in essence they DID want to fight and slaughter humans, but it never was allowed to get that far. Probably because, for all their technology, they are still outnumbered and would get slaughtered themselves if they DID go to war. Although, I do wonder if perhaps there was more of a personal grudge for the downfall of the Jin’Sorai. Perhaps the leader of the Sar’Teri had a personal thing against the leader of the Jin’Sorai and used this as an excuse to take them out once and for all. Or maybe he was perfectly viable in his actions and that the majority of the Jin’Sorai wanted blood and planned on attacking and therefor not only harming innocent humans, but dragging their entire species down with them for it. He possibly weighed out all the options and came to the conclusion that wiping out a section of their people was the lesser evil.
We just don’t know yet. I don’t want to paint Selkie’s mother as innocent until we know she is. Because personally, I think it’d be fabulous to have her have been a villain, because it’s so unexpected and everyone wants Selkie and all of those who are friends and family to be nothing but good, simply because Selkie is the protagonist.
I think it’d be great if she straight up went rogue for not the best reasons and then realized the error of her ways and tried to redeem herself. I’m really digging the war criminal route, because it’s interesting and unexpected. I’m also hoping the scapegoat theory is nonsense.
I can definitely see Plo Quar the former peacekeeper potentially being a “I don’t like what the humans did either but we aren’t going to start mass murdering everyone we – *angry Tensei cursing*” type, but there’s a lot of potential here for a lot of things and I’m kind of hoping whatever happened, this war criminal designation isn’t a total smear. (I do agree given we saw her shelter with humans she probably wasn’t onboard totally with the Jin’Sorai’s all-out war plan, but it’s possible she still supported some kind of retribution like a targeted strike or something. Or conversely, that she maybe was complicit in whatever steps the Sar’Teri took before escalating to mass murder – certainly there had to be some – though that wouldn’t make her a war criminal in the media’s eyes.)
Again, there is no evidence they wanted to slaughter humans. The statement in this comic is they wanted blood for blood. Given that one Sarnothi life was lost that could simply mean one human life, or perhaps all the fisherman involved with the death of the Sarnothi. I’m not sure where people keep getting this idea that the Jin’Sorai wanted to slaughter or even (as someone says above) wipe out humanity.
https://selkiecomic.com/comic/selkie406/
We’re all well aware that the only person you want to paint as innocent no matter what she does is Amanda. You’ve made that clear before.
For what it’s worth, here’s my rough mental timeline of how things went down:
0) Status quo: Clans mostly at peace and harmony, Selkie’s mother works for the peacekeeping corps.
1) Sarnothi kid gets “processed” in an atrocity.
2) Jin’Sorai are furious and want blood for blood.
3) Sar’Teri, who are in charge, say no blood vengeance.
4) Riots ensue. Selkie’s mother still works with the peacekeeping corps because riots are bad business for everyone and at this point they’re still about restoring order more or less peacably.
5) Sar’Teri start exterminating Jin’Sorai en masse for as yet unknown reason, heavy strikes on noncombatant populations, escalating the riots into full fledged civil war.
6) Selkie’s mother is horrified and concludes that this is not what she signed up for and this is no longer the government she swore to serve, then changes sides and fights against Sar’Teri forces
7) The Sar’Teri-led government, casting about for *anything* to distract from awkward questions about the committed atrocities, gleefully focus public attention on “the traitor and war criminal” and away from their own questionable behavior.
8) Plo Quar realizes that Nei Li will no longer be safe in Sarnothi territory because it’s now obvious the government will stoop to *anything* to shut things down, and heads to the surface to give Nei Li up for adoption in order to keep her safe and away from the war.
Oh Amanda isn’t innocent by any means, I just think she gets dealt a shit hand often and it’s unfair to want her to suffer simply because she’s not had any positives or constants in her life. She’s done some terrible things to Selkie and her parents need to address that, but they can’t because they won’t even get to the root of Amanda’s problems so how the hell can they address her problems with Selkie?
Also, I said I’d love it if Selkie’s mom was previously not the best, but goes on to try and redeem herself and do what’s right for her daughter. And honestly, even if her actions were terrible, she’d have more of an excuse than anybody else. Doesn’t make her actions right, but it’d certainly make sense.
Her clan was wiped out.
Her husband possibly was a casualty.
She was alienated from her race because of the war.
She was possibly lied to and tricked.
She was probably angry and hurt.
She probably feared for her daughter’s safety.
She probably did bad stuff, but it seems to me she either felt remorse or changed her mind.
I’m just not buying the whole, “Selkie’s mom was 100% innocent and she’s being scapegoated by the media.” theory. I think it’s a tired concept and unoriginal and is just a way to make anyone close to Selkie be perfect and just because she’s the protagonist.
I think as it is Plo Quar is my FAVORITE character because of the depth and character development possibly she has going for her.
I see that someone is a fan of Farscape…
Farscape? I am a fan of Farscape, and the only thing I can think you may be referring to is the use of the term “Peacekeeper.” However, that’s a long-standing term in human history. Here’s an example of one of the current uses:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Canadian_peacekeeping_missions
The fact that the Sarnothi have Peacekeepers (and a military clan, for that matter), however, makes me wonder . . . WTF? They’re a singular race in a singular city, divided only by provinces within said city and clan ties. How would a culture like that sustain a militaristic initiative? They’d need some enemy, real or imagined, to keep that going, no? Or at least some kind of extremely resilient warrior culture bred from past conflicts. Were those internal, or were they external conflicts with some /other/ sapient race we’ve yet to be introduced to? Did the ancient Sarnothi go to war with the aboriginal people of what is now called North America?
These are the sort of things I find myself constantly wondering about while everyone else is debating the validity of the âwar criminalâ label placed on Selkie’s mother.
The fact that Sarnoth has biologically divided clans hints that there was once in-fighting amongst them before they unified, with a rivalry so deep and long-lasted that it created a genetic drift.
We know very, very little about how long or short ago Sarnoth unified, or really anything about their history, so it’s possible that they only unified a very short time ago.
Plus, unlike humans (which are prey animals), Sarnothi are predators. They’re as sapient and intelligent as humans, and much hardier (ie Selkie should never have been able to catch a cold, hinting that they’re much less vulnerable to disease). The social instincts which a Sarnothi finds valuable are likely to be far different from that of a human, and I’m guessing they’re at least somewhat more psychologically inclined to things like militia than a human would for these reasons as well (Since they might have less need for cooperation to survive than humans do, for instance).
I disagree that they are “much hardier”. That Selkie so quickly became ill in the cold highlights that environments which humans can adapt to are much more difficult for Sarnothi. Certainly they have advantages in the water (freshwater at least) but I don’t think thats enough to conclude they are over all ‘hardier”.
As for disease, for all we know undersea they have similar problems that we do above land, its just the very different biology means that their pathogens and ours aren’t easily transferable. Diseases that cross species boundaries are not that common and the effects in one species can vary from the effects in another when they do cross over. Selkie living almost exclusively among humans would therefore simply be exposed to far less disease vectors than she otherwise might, leading to her getting ill less often. Similar to if you or I were somehow transplanted to an alien world.
Humans as prey animals is not something I subscribe to. The research pieces on the topic have often been spun unduly by the “buzz feed science” effect of these days. Ancestrally, a pre-human species was certainly a prey animal, and there is some carry-over to current behaviour and physiology. However, as of homo sapien sapien, we are most definitely on the omnivore-with-predatory-instincts side of things. People suffering from anxiety and being a bit twitchy around danger are not compelling enough arguments to suggest that our chase instincts, forward-positioned eyes, endurance, and carnivore-friendly digestive track (as opposed to a scavenger-friendly one or purely herbivore) are somehow invalidated.
Your other points (barring those addressed by David K.) are certainly well received. However, the point of my original post was more to draw attention to my interest in those social and cultural narratives of the Sarnothi peoples, rather than to suggest there’s some kind of plothole that needs to be filled. I’m just much more interested in how the modern Sarnothi came to be than I am interested in what I see as a very simple case of media spin in regard to Selkie’s mother’s labels. I apologize if my word choice was misleading from that.
While I agree with your assessment of humans as omnivores with predatory instincts, I feel I should point out the forward-facing eyes are an ancestral trait for all primates, including fully herbivorous species, that evolved to facilitate arboreal locomotion. For humans, that holdover just contributed to our efficiency as predators.
Amused at Gunnerkrigg’s method of self-censorship right now. Dave’s not the only one who thinks it’s funnier to self-censor creatively, as well as allowing the material to be read by a wider audience: http://gunnerkrigg.com/?p=1688
Entertaining self-censoring is some of the best stuff you’ll find anywhere. I especially enjoyed (back in the day) some of the self censoring in the disk world novels (if I remember correctly, Moving Pictures had a pretty good one)
We finally learn her birth family’s surname!
So they speak as Plo Quar is alive. Who’s also waiting to see how long it takes before Selkie plays matchmaker when they finally meet her personally?
Also… Dave? ART WIN! Everyone, just look at Sai Fen’s expression of shocked backpedaling when she realizes Plo Quar is Selkie’s mother. SO VERY well done.