Who doesn’t like surprise guests, anyway?
Todd's apartment building is set up with 2 two-bedroom apartments per floor and 1 Efficiency in the middle between them. The building overall is U-shaped (there is a courtyard in the back of the building that has not yet been shown in the strip) and the efficiency lives in the "base" of the U while the two-bedrooms are in the "legs". Their neighbors Asuka and Shinji, for comparison, live in the first floor Efficiency.
WHAT?! No! She hasn’t earned this! That…She can’t handle Christmas Eve…no. Just no.
After all she’s done you lose your spine….
While I understand your stance LadyObvious; in the scope of the bigger picture; Andi does raise a point of merit. While yes, Andi can stand to not be there for the Smith Family Christmas; what of Amanda? Right now Amanda doesn’t know there was a big deception on her Mom’s part and right now at this point in her life. Telling that truth to a volatile young girl who’s obviously still coping with emotional baggage, now isn’t the time to tell one’s child who undoubtedly is eager to have Christmas with EVERYONE in her family why her Mom is rather reviled by her Father’s family.
Realistically, Todd has every right to shut this down and if he did I wouldn’t blame him. In some ways, it’d be a warranted action.
However this isn’t about him, Andi or his folks but Amanda’s feelings. Granted the adults feelings deserve consideration too; but I can see why Todd would back down.
However he SHOULD make double damn sure his folks are okay with this, if they aren’t then they need to find a way to explain to Amanda why her Mom can’t be there, and I’m sure there’s ways to do it without causing her to lose faith in either parent or think the family is being ‘mean’ to her Mother.
We’ll see how this goes, if cooler, mature heads prevail or things explode into bad tidings.
How about the siblings? I highly doubt Marta and Antoine will be civil. It was smarter to not have her there. It just reads as uber manipulative of her and I don’t like it.
Everytime a problem occurs,she uses Amanda as a shield. No matter what.
Gotta agree with Lady O on this, there are more people involved here than Amanda, and Andi using her as a way to join herself to the family is not likely to end well even if she is doing it for Amanda. Should Amanda’s situation be taken in to account? Sure. What about Selkie? Its also Selkie’s first Christmas with her family and she now has to spend it WITH HER TORMENTER. Marta, Antoine, and the grandparents have to spend it with the women who lied to their son/brother about his child BEING DEAD.
So, do you not want Andi there because of what she did to the Smith family?
Or do you not want Amanda there because of how she treats Selkie?
Or do you want them both to not be there?
Yo. Amanda can be talked to and told why she needs to be nice to Selkie. He’s suggesting they find a solution so that Selkie feels safe btw.
Andi is being manipulative and doesn’t deserve to go.
Todd needs to leave her with some food for thought. If she’s going to force herself into this situation, everything is on her. She is being watched like a hawk and if she steps out of line, it’s done, split holidays is where it will go. No spending time with Todd pretending like it’s hunky dory. No nothing! She is on thin ice as of right now and how things go from here is up to her.
Todd may be giving in for Amanda, but he needs to make it clear that Andi is the one on probation, not him. Though Todd may be too nice to say that.
This. Yes. Every point you’ve brought up so far I agree with 100%.
Andi is correct though. She is not forcing herself into this so much as she is protecting Amanda from the “mum’s not here for christmas” thing. And Todd is being sort of obnoxious by talking for other people. As near as I can tell, Todd’s parents are actually pretty hopeful about Andi being accepted back into the family. Not necessarily getting back together with Todd, But Amanda is definitely their grand-daughter and Andi is definitely Amanda’s mother. Andi is definitely family.
I totally get where you are coming from… The thing is Andi has no where to go. She made a very difficult and courageous choice to cut off her mother and take responsibility for her insane choices when she was 17.
I am not aware of any studies done on adult survivors who cut off their abusive parents and actively chose to put themselves around healthy (sane) people (an act that is very hard to follow when you’ve been raised in abuse as you actually feel more comfortable around people who continue those unhealthy patterns), but if there were? I bet the findings might find entire personalities can change—almost always for the better. For that to happen to Andi would benefit *everyone* (including herself and Todd—even if they don’t get together).
And she does have a point actually. It would probably be really good for Amanda (who spend a key part of her childhood raised in violence) to see both of her parents over the holiday—and see them getting along. She has been an awful little goblin to Selkie, but that’s a key part of what she knows. The most dangerous animals (including humans) are the injured and scared ones.
What Andi does for christmas is none of Todd or anyone else’s business though, and if she has nowhere else to go that’s her probem, not Todd’s.
I mostly agree with you, however, not having something to do for Christmas is a bit bigger than just her. If she expected to go to Todd’s place, she wouldn’t have planned an activity for the two of them at her place. I joined my dad’s family for the actual Christmas party, but at home with mom we’d always have our own thing going on. We’d have a special meal (not turkey, she was vegetarian, but still a special treat) and do activities, watch our favourite movies…
If Andi doesn’t get the parental go-ahead to join them, now she has to think up something to do last-minute. And not just any something, something GREAT. Because this is Amanda’s first Christmas with her, and she has to do more than just popping in a Christmas movie and eating turkey sandwiches because everywhere’s sold out of real turkey two days before Christmas.
It is totally Andi’s fault for not having the foresight to figure out how the family she hurt just MAYBE doesn’t want her around during what’s supposed to be happy day for everyone. But that doesn’t completely negate the fact that her emotionally traumatised child deserves to have good memories of both her parents.
Plus, Amanda already knows at least on some level that the family doesn’t really like her mom. But if she sees all these people who don’t like someone actually being nice to them, regardless of whether or not they want to…. it might just help her attitude with Selkie. Just a bit. Maybe. Possibly. Hopefully… Please, Dave?
Amanda hates Selkie for being different and for taking up the adults’ attention during a crucial time in Amanda’s life. Neither of these are things that Selkie DID. One is something she IS and the other is something she didn’t have any choice in.
The people who are upset at Andi are upset over something Andi CHOSE TO DO, which directly impacted the entire family, including Amanda, in a highly negative way, for eight years, and which Andi deliberately hid from them, and lied to cover it up, and added props to maintain the lie, and didn’t come clean about it until it appeared she was going to lose Todd for good.
It is difficult to make the case that these situations are so similar that “Amanda, be civil to Selkie” requires “rest of family, be civil to Andi during a major family holiday, for like the entire celebration, and just keep that seething resentment under wraps.”
I’m not saying the situations are the same, I’m just hoping for a pleasant side effect to an unpleasant situation.
And, honestly, I really don’t think that their feelings trump Amanda’s. I very nearly killed myself when I was 12 because my parents valued their convenience and comfort over my sanity, and I’ve spent the last fourteen years being forced to relive the worst period of my life every single time I attend ANY family function, all the while being mocked for having gone through all that crap in the first place. If I knew being friendly to the people I hate would save someone I actually DO care about from going through the same hell of depression I did, I would plaster on the biggest smile you’ve ever seen and FUCKING DO IT.
Few people are aware enough of what their actions are doing to other people. It’s more of a hindsight thing, or for people with particularly high Social skills (interpersonal intelligence).
Or for people who get confided in by loved ones: “I’m going through XYZ, I need more JKL, please help me” kind of stuff. Not sure how often that happens.
The balance between your own mental/emotional well being and that of those you love is, well, a balance. Letting harm (even emotional harm and severe stress) come to you rather than let it come to loved ones, that’s something that can be done — by some people — for some period of time. The people who do it too much or too often can end up causing worse problems when they break down.
Your situation sounds like one of those cases where a family tries to ignore a situation of abuse because acknowledging and dealing with the abuse would rock the boat. I don’t know if I’m reading your description right, and I’ve never really been in that sort of position (at least not a really bad one), but it’s sad that people ever let their kids go through additional trauma rather than deal with a bad situation like adults.
I agree with the hope that a bad situation leads to good outcomes. That is the case with most good storytelling, after all 🙂
But while I don’t think that their feelings trump Amanda’s, I equally don’t think Amanda’s trump theirs. Amanda was not the only person hurt by Andi’s actions (and inaction). Amanda’s suffering, while certainly acute, was not significantly more than the rest of the family’s, although of course it happened to a person with fewer coping resources.
Plus, I don’t think this is the either/or extreme that keeps getting brought up: Andi being left out of the Christmas celebration at Todd’s family’s house does not mean that Andi is left out of Christmas altogether, or that Amanda has to go through all of Christmas without her mom. There are options; they just haven’t really been discussed in the comic so far.
I think the best idea I heard was having Amanda spend the night with Todd’s family, enjoy Christmas morning, then rejoin her mother for a smaller celebration with just the four (or even just the three) of them. If four, the two adults and two kids enjoy a restaurant together, or time at Andi’s place. If three, Selkie gets to enjoy one-on-one time with her grandparents while Todd, Andi, and Amanda get to enjoy an activity that leaves Amanda more relaxed because no Selkie.
Might even be the case that they plan on a three-person outing, but Amanda, during the Christmas overnight, becomes relaxed enough around Selkie to invite her to join them. That would leave things in her hands.
She burned a ton of bridges on her own. Now it’s her fault she’s stuck on an island alone.
Andi made that bed. Who’s sleeping in it? Cuz it sure as heck isn’t Andi.
Honestly I think Todd’s been pretty unfair to Andi about all this. Yes, what she did could be construed as a betrayal of sorts, but it was done neither lightly nor bereft of regret. It was a difficult situation and she was coerced by her mother into making a mistake. I don’t think Andi deserves nearly as much blame or heat as she’s been getting, and I don’t believe that Todd should fail to attempt reconciliation if he’s going to continue spending time with her. He should either cut Andi (and therefore Amanda) out of his life completely, or make up with them both. The middle ground is untenable.
No, she deserves everything she’s gotten. She never had to let them hold an urn of plant ashes as their lost family. She let them. I am coming in to say it because I am a bit more diplomatic than Lady Obvious, but Andi is a scumbag for dragging Todd and his family along. Her mother never made her keep the lie going, but she did because her cowardly little heart couldn’t handle facing the heat for her actions. This is why we blast her. She deserves this.
They have reconciled though? Once more, even by Todd’s own words this is not about what Andi did but about them being broken up. While one can be civil and have an amiable relationship with one’s ex like Todd has been trying to so far there are naturally going to be some boundaries. Ex girlfriend no longer being invited to family outings seems like a natural one to most of us.
Yeah, I totally disagree with your either/or setup there. Todd can absolutely maintain a good relationship with Amanda while maintaining merely a cordial, “I’m not actively trying to harm you” and “I can be polite despite my feelings toward you” relationship with Andi. He’s actually pretty close to that level already.
Nothing in that setup in any way requires Andi to be present at the celebration.
Consider if the celebration at stake were not Christmas, but rather Todd’s wedding. Would it be appropriate to invite Todd’s former girlfriend along because Amanda might possibly feel bad that her mom couldn’t be there for such a momentous occasion?
There are many occasions that Andi is no longer welcome to. Christmas should be one of them, at least for the foreseeable future.
Agreed that Todd has consistently treated Andi pretty badly. From well before the big reveal too. Andi may not be family by Todd(although they both deserve a reconciliation now that the reason for them breaking up is gone) anymore, but she is still family by Amanda and that won’t be changing. If Amanda is family then so is Andi and Amanda is obviously family.
Todd is behaving badly here. There is plenty of justification to behave badly, but it is still poor behaviour. Todd is speaking on behalf of his parents, he is telling Andi to stay away from a family event because of his personal feelings while forgetting that Andi is still part of his family, and really isn’t putting much thought at all into how this would affect anyone else, especially Amanda AND Selkie(who would no doubt notice that something was up, and think about it…).
Todd and Andi are both pretty terrible about each other. Andi has mostly gotten over it, because her problem was mostly fear and secrecy, which are both largely resolved so she is down to a pretty accurate amount of guilt and remorse. Todd is still angry at Andi for slowly falling apart in the course of their relationship due to the secret she was keeping. Todd is also kind of miffed about the actual content of the secret, which largely wasn’t something that Andi could have been expected to do differently, but mostly this just added to Todd’s pre-existing irritation at years of Andi being uncomfortable.
Andi has a lot to make up for, and she is willing to do so. Todd has a new situation to deal with, but is refusing to do so because Andi is his Achilles’ Heel…
I understand the notion of “putting the kids first”… but I’m with L.O. This is not an argument Andi should win. Playing the “kids first” card to get what she doesn’t deserve sets an awful precedent for the future.
Also, pretending like they’re all one big happy functional family when they’re not, and likely never will be, is not doing Amanda any great favours either. Rather it seems like setting up a false expectation.
False expectations are a big thing, because of Amanda’s past. Having the rug yanked out from under her is a HUGE thing for Amanda, so every care should be taken not to set her up for that. They need to plan things in advance, make Amanda aware of them in advance, make Amanda aware of any likelihood that the plans might change, ensure that she understands that they love her and want her and will not abandon her even if plans change….
There’s just an awful lot of scaffolding that needs to be built up around Amanda before they can manage the things that might additional structural weakness — let alone explosions.
I know a lot of people have commented on how Andi would still be getting Christmas day with Amanda, but honestly I haven’t 100% gotten that impression. Just from the way they talk about it, it seems like there may be some family tradition of spending the day together Christmas Eve, spending the night, and then spending Christmas Day together. Which, of course, would make it all the worse for Andi to be there.
On the other hand, if it really is just Christmas Eve day, and then she’s back with her mom that night, that seems like it’d be an excellent thing for Todd to mention.
I, too, have been wondering just exactly WHICH FRAME of WHICH STRIP Dave has anyone saying Todd is just taking her for Christmas Eve night and Andi gets her back Christmas Day.
Because, while there are many (many many many many) commenters saying, “They’re just splitting the holiday, and Andi gets her right back”, I haven’t seen Dave say that.
Yet Todd hasn’t said it wouldn’t happen. It feels pretty implied that he isn’t keeping her for the whole holiday.
I would find it EXTREMELY odd, and out of character, for Todd to just abscond with Amanda for the entire holiday. That would be the kind of thing even divorced parents don’t do, and it would be a incredibly poor move on Todd’s part given how attached Amanda is to her mother.
It is true that he hasn’t said anything one way or the other. But there’s plenty of precedent in the real world for split celebrations, and I can’t see Dave ignoring all that.
There are also a lot of variations of holiday divisions in the real world. Some of them do include one parent having Christmas Eve and Christmas (or “the week of Christmas”) one year and the other having it the next. Now, I’m not saying this would be a great arrangement for this particular family, but it does happen in the real world. (Source: Mom’s a divorce lawyer, I often type things for her.)
If they do have a holiday tradition that involves spending the night (like some families do when they all go to midnight mass– though I don’t think there’s been an indication that the grandparents are religious?), it could go without saying for the characters what “Christmas at my parents'” means.
It would totally make sense for that not to be the case. I would just expect Todd to say something about it in that case.
If Andi already understands how his family operates, there’s no need for him to tell her (“As you already know…”). That’s an exposition trope that has been played out far too often over the years, and I’m sick of it. Cut us a little more credit, that we can work out some of the details for ourselves.
What I meant was I would expect for Todd to point out to Andi that she’d still be getting Christmas Day with Amanda, nothing that would need the tropey set up you mentioned.
It is out-of-character for Todd, until you realise that he gets hysterical about Andi. This is probably why people around here hate Andi so much, they are trying to make sense of why Todd treats her badly. It is entirely in-character for Todd to just ignore reason and tell Andi that she has no business being part of Todd’s family and he is taking Amanda for a fun family christmas everyone will be better off with no icky Andi-cooties around to ruin everyone’s family time.
Todd Brought his parents into thins… Todd’s parents are almost certainly expecting Andi to be there. This is when they had pretty much just found out: https://selkiecomic.com/comic/selkie686/ and they are conversing with her, not shutting her down, not throwing her away, challenging her but maintaining a relationship.
Then there is this and the following scenes: https://selkiecomic.com/comic/selkie701/
Todd is completely projecting his own feelings onto his family, there is precisely zero reason to believe that Andi doesn’t belong there, Todd is being hysterical right now and clearly hasn’t even begun to process the implications of taking a child away from their guardian for christmas. Todd’s mental processes right now are clearly “Amanda = good, Andi = bad, good goes, bad stays away”.
It does seem like Todd is going to be spending all of Christmas with his family, not just Christmas Eve.
I hate it when characters don’t think things through logically. They could have just split the holiday, like everyone was saying, and Todd and Selkie could have joined Andi and Amanda for Christmas Day.
It kind of does seem like Todd was going to be with his parents for all of Christmas and not just Christmas Eve.
TODD, yes (why wouldn’t he be?). AMANDA, no. Or at least, that was my assumption upon reading the setup. There’s not a lot of detail there, but generally you don’t abscond with a kid for 100% of the holiday if there are multiple families to take into account.
Heck, we (Americans) don’t even tend to do that when there are two sets of holiday-friendly parents in the picture. Unless there’s an evens/odds agreement in place, people run themselves ragged trying to get to two separate celebrations so no one feels left out.
Way to be a manipulative dick Andi, phrasing it in such a way that Todd could not refuse without making himself seem like the bad guy. Not buying it here, in my mind this is all mostly for herself.
And kudos to Todd, he’s a bigger person than me, I’d just flat out tell her no.
No, I disagree. Unless they did have plans that she go back to Andi for Christmas day then I think she is totally right. Yes, it is understandable why she is not wanted there and likewise I think she should feel uncomfortable about going. You don’t make those kinds of decisions for your own self-interest when your kids are that age though, you do what is best for your children.
Amanda is more bonded to Andi at this point anyway. If they really can’t tollerate Andi’s presence for Christmas then why isn’t Amanda just staying with Andi?
No. Just… no. This christmas is going to be a desaster, with everybody being forced to make a happy face while they don’t want Andi to be with them. And I don’t believe that Amanda won’t notice the bad mood – and probably will think Todd is the bad guy…
Somehow I have the feeling Andi’s concern is not about Amanda, but about herself. She wants to sneak back into Todd’s life and his family and uses Amanda as an excuse to get what she wants.
Gaaah. Andi. Grow up.
I unfortunately doubt she’ll ever do this. Not until something horrible happens or she gets a Reason Why You Suck speech.
Yeah, me too. I have this feeling that, even if she got a “Reason Why You Suck” speech, she wouldn’t understand. She doesn’t seem to be a really empathic person – her insensitive treatment of the subject adopting kids (“adopting a child is like being a babysitter”), her lack of telling the difference between nicknames and insults (“fish-face towards a special-needs kid is an insult? I had no idea!”), the way she answered Lilian’s question “What do you do with a wounded animal backed into a corner” and the way she tries to sneak into Todd’s life again… she’s really unempathic and insensitive towards other people.
And I have this feeling that she is not the kind of mother Amanda needs. Amanda needs somebody who is sensitive and empathic. Instead she got somebody self-centered who spoils Amanda with gifts and food, even when Amanda is behaving like a brat.
Definitely. And I’m doubting she’s going to be nice when Antoine and Marta act less than civil. She’s so immature that she’ll blame Todd.
I’m more expecting she’ll just break down the same way she did when she brought Amanda to meet her grandparents.
She really already has had that (where Amanda broke in). She’s just not getting why she shouldn’t nose in where she’s not wanted. Andi needs to have a heart-to-heart with Amanda and explain that they have a right and reason to be angry with her mother (Amanda’s maternal grandmother I mean) and they have a reason to be angry with her. It would be the mature thing to do, but I still see Andi doing a lot of adolescent things here.
This exactly. Andi is really is not entitled to be doing things with the family since they broke up, and while Amanda may not take it well, it needs to be done. Andi may be scared to lose the Smiths as an outside source of support since her mom is refusing to be a part of Amanda’s life, but that’s on her. Mari and Leo were somewhat understanding of the breakup even while taking their son’s side and not knowing the full reason. When Andi confessed, she lost all their trust. She probably knows deep down that Amanda will too if the truth comes out too soon, and the thought of being really alone has got to be terrifying. Still, she’s not doing things for the right reasons, like trying to make up directly after telling Todd the truth at the aquarium. She has to face the fact she’s a single mom, and making sure Amanda sees both parents like they agreed doesn’t mean she gets that privelege too. I can’t help but feel for her, but she is in the wrong.
Todd’s parents clearly want Amanda and Andi to be part of the family. They are not okay with what Andi did, but they are clearly happy that Amanda is part of the family and respect Andi for being Amanda’s mother. So that is two people at least who will definitely be cautiously encouraging Andi.
Andi’s concern is clearly about Amanda, and she is clearly correct in her concerns. Andi being absent from Amanda’s christmas is clearly a bad thing. Yes, Andi does want to return to Todd’s life, and that may well be motivating her, but contrary to stupid belief it is possible to have multiple motivations for an action and Amanda’s well-being is a completely justified and present one.
And honestly? Todd and Andi probably should get back together. It likely won’t happen with everything between them now, but the problem was that Andi was keeping a secret and that it was gnawing at her and that in turn made her a bad girlfriend. Andi never really had any choice in the matter. Her own mother(whose motives were not entirely terrible, certainly she was overbearing and inconsiderate, but she almost certainly had Andi’s well-being at the forefront of her thoughts and honestly believed that the adoption system would look after the child) pressured her when she was extremely vulnerable. By the time Todd got there(Todd was late, not his fault but he still failed) the child was gone and as far as Andi knew, unrecoverable, and Andi was, again, in no state to handle the situation, and probably honestly thought that Todd would be better off not knowing(given that the alternative is knowing and being able to do nothing about it, which is presumably what Andi believed at the time). Granted, Andi was probably nervous about saying that she had given the baby up, but she hadn’t really even done that, she had just gone along with her mother. Once the lie was told, it was pretty much impossible to go back. It would have been near impossible to do anything while under her mother’s gaze and once Todd had started telling people and started mourning, well, it was just compounding and compounding. It is easy to forget that minds are very limited things and that lots of problems are just well beyond their capacity. It really isn’t reasonable to expect Andi to just spontaneously come clean. That she went back and adopted Amanda at all is pretty much heroic after she had dug the proverbial hole so deep(and seriously, saying she got Amanda to get Todd is just stupid. Amanda meant telling Todd, which meant ending their relationship as far as Andi could see). The only really bad thing that Andi did was panic when Todd was likely to see her with Amanda, which admittedly was pretty terrible, but that is the only reason that she wasn’t fit to handle Amanda, and I like to believe that after a couple of weeks to adapt to Amanda and prepare, she would have told Todd. The girls going to the same school just caught Andi off-guard. Or maybe she would have never told Todd, it is not certain, but I do think that she intended to come clean before he found out incidentally.
Andi is a great parent for Amanda. What Amanda needs more than anything else is time. She just needs someone who is willing to spend a vast amount of time with her and Andi does that. Andi does spoil Amanda a little but mostly when she panics, which is not often now that the secret is out, and she clearly does consider Amanda’s situation. It is pretty clear that Todd would actually be a pretty bad parent to her at the moment, he just doesn’t have the time to deal with her issues.
Really, Andi’s only crime was not being prepared to meet Todd after she adopted Amanda. Their rlationship only failed because Andi couldn’t handle the secret, which was not something that she could be expected to overcome by herself, but she only had herself, and that was eventually enough. Since coming clean Andi has been extremely decent and Todd has been pretty cruel to Andi since the time at which the comic started. I suspect that much of the Andi hate comes from people trying to rationalise Todd’s harshness towards her or maybe she reminds people of a clingy ex? I find myself wondering if the bountiful hostility towards her is enough to alter the story. How will you feel when Andi finally earns her forgiveness, and Todd finally realises that he still likes who she was when she wasn’t scared, confused, irritable, and suffering from trauma over adoption issues and they get back together?
I was just thinking about how Andi could have thought fish-face was a nickname, and a fish-based nickname just popped into my name that I can see Selkie being actually okay with.
Fisshini!
INCONCEIVABLE!
*Mind. Popped into my MIND.
Did I give the girls The Princess Bride for Christmas? (checks) Nope. Missed one there.
I could see her liking that name. If it came from anyone other than Amanda.
Basically this. This would only be an issue for Amanda if Andi makes her feel like her not being invited is an issue.
to me I don’t think Andi is being a manipulative dick, she does have a point Amanda does deserve both her mom and dad on her first Christmas, but Todd’s parents and siblings could be mad about having Andi there, she did lie and say Amanda was dead, and what of Andi’s mom I am still waiting for that shoe to drop, even those she does not want to see her granddaughter, it was her idea to put her up for adoption plus I think she has some words for todd.
Emotional blackmail is the best blackmail because it always works and you can’t get arrested!
Emotional blackmail is literally counting on the fact that the other person is a better human being than you are.
Fuck you, Andi. Really, just fuck you.
You’re absolutely your mother’s daughter.
I’m sorry, I think this is way too harsh.
For the love of… Fucking call your parents right now!! If you really want to do the fake smiles and happy times based on half truths and lies at the bloody least make sure everyone is on the same Page. Don’t just show up without priming the other wounded parties.
Jeezus! YES! 100 times this! It is not too late in the evening to call them (the kids are up). Todd is being just as big as a dick as Andi is (maybe more).
I did not get the feeling that he doesn’t know this. I got the feeling that he’s stating this out loud for Andi’s benefit, since the way she phrased the whole conversation makes it seem she might not be considering how mad his family is.
Wow. The vast majority of the commenters on thta previous page are gonna be peeved… >_>U
Most of us figured it would happen. But the way she did it, yeah, it’s irksome. She is basically forcing herself into the situation, that’s not really proof she wants to be better. She just wants her way. Oh I feel troubled for how Amanda is going to deal with her anger problems if Andi pulls the same crap on her. It will just make the girl angrier.
I didn’t figure it would happen — it’s just that it’s setting up a powder keg, and that’s the sort of drama lesser shows thrive on. I sorta thought Dave would’ve chosen a better path, a more realistic path, but now we get to see how big it blows up and how strongly the blowup affects Amanda.
Heck, maybe it’s a time for Selkie to learn some compassion for Amanda, seeing maybe for the first time how Amanda gets the short end of the stick.
There’s a principle that “bad things happen for a reason.” This principle fits under worldviews like Christianity, ones that believe in an ultimate plan or in finding good in the bad. One of the bad things that can lead to good is: “I went through some bad times myself, and because of this, I can empathize with other people who are going through bad times. If I hadn’t experienced them for myself, I would have more trouble seeing things from their point of view.”
Similarly, “If I hadn’t seen that person meltdown in public, I wouldn’t have understood the stresses she is under and appreciated how she’s actually unexpectedly good at self-control most of the time, because most of the time she’s no worse than grumpy.”
So it may well be that this negative event happens in such a way that it allows two or more characters to mend some bridges — even if Andi’s not one of them.
Umm, Selkie has shown compassion toward Amanda. It’s Amanda that needs to show compassion to Selkie.
Both need to, and Selkie’s shown more than Amanda, for sure. But in my mind there’s still a long way to go for both sides. (Wasn’t Selkie still treating Amanda like an intruder last time they got together at her house? how long ago was that in story time?)
But yeah, you’re right to point out that Selkie isn’t compassionless toward Amanda. Not by a long shot.
i´ve got to agree with several previous comments: andi is totally using amanda to try and weasel her way back into todds life, heck half the reason she felt the need to reclaim amanda was that she realised how serious todd was about having kids. and she doesn´t care one bit that she´s making things very uncomfortable for everyone else. granted, amanda would probably prefer christmas with both parents, but tons of kids from divorced parents survive seperate celebrations just fine, you only need to explain things properly to them….which is something andi is continously avoiding with amanda. to this day she hasn´t answered the (very warranted!) question ‘why did daddy think i was dead?’, also its mostly todd who does the talking to+raising. at this rate i rather see him taking care of both girls then andi shaping up to be a good mom.
I hope Todd calls his family beforehand to let them know what’s going on. I really don’t think things would go well if she showed up as a “surprise guest”.
Also, as to whether or not she should show up for Christmas, I am kinda torn on the issue. On one hand I understand why Todd would not want Andi to be at his parent’s house for Christmas because of what she did (giving up Amanda for adoption and then lying about it). It could also be pretty tense if she did come. On the other hand, Amanda doesn’t understand what is going on at all, thinks Todd hates Andi for no reason, and wants both of them in her life, so she would really be upset if Andi was left out of the festivities. And that’s not even considering how both options would affect Selkie, since even though she is not directly involved in what happened, she is also stuck in the middle of this mess. 🙁
I guess things could go either way with both options. So I guess I am just going to keep on reading this webcomic and hope for the best.
The reason why Andi shouldn’t get to come over is that she’s not Todd’s girlfriend anymore, that’s the simple and plausible explanation that even has the benefit of being true. No need to go into what Andi did or why the family might be angry with her at all.
Um, yes it IS necessary. If Andi had never done what she did, then it would be easier for them to have an amiable relationship with each other even though they are not a couple. Being exes does not necessarily mean you can’t still just be friends.
The problem is because of what happened with Amanda. She has no clue as to what happened and given how she acted in previous comics, she will definitely be upset if Andi is excluded.
The breakup itself is still a factor, through. I doubt Todd would want Andi around even without the lie.
Food for Thought: What’s going to happen when Todd finds someone else, and starts showing up at family holidays? How will Andi react then?
I am not sure. I think it will depend how much time has passed since the breakup and whether or not Andi can accept that Todd no longer feels the same as he used to.
Anyways, I have a feeling it will be while before he gets serious with someone else. I mean, he MIGHT get together with Meena, but even that’s iffy at this point. From what I understand, Meena seems to have some issues of her own to work out. And then there’s the fact she is currently teaching Selkie and Amanda, so it might not be the best time for them to pursue a relationship with each other.
I don’t think it will be that long. He knows Meena is out of the question, but his interest in her indicated he is already open to new relationships. Andi….is still clinging to Todd.
She’s not completely out of the question. It’s only really a conflict while she’s teaching his kids, and that’ll only last about another 6 months.
Maybe. To me it seemed she didn’t want to be added in the drama between Todd and Andi, along with Selkie and Amanda in there too. She has her own daughter as well. She might feel that’s just too much to handle.
I still think that’s only ‘for now’. The past few weeks(months?) have certainly been chock-full of emotional upheaval, and at the time they had the conversation about not becoming more than friends it was in the days immediately following his finding out. Right now is definitely not the right time for them to be thinking about anything more.
But next year, when everyone has had much more time to process what’s going on and figure out how things are going to work moving on? I can totally see their friendship become gradually less platonic.
The two choices are “Amanda sees Andi left out of the celebration” and “Amanda feels the entire family being incredibly tense toward Andi for the entire celebration, likely leading to some really unkind words if not a blowup or meltdown.”
You saw how well they were able to “play nice” around Andi the last time they got together. How much worse during a major event like Christmas, when they’re supposed to be able to let their hair down?
So Amanda’s going to be hurt either way. It’s entirely damage control at this point. At least if Amanda is whisked away to a group of people who love her and can focus entirely on her, she might forget the Andi snub for a good part of the festivities.
I have a minor phobia of dogs, stemming from when I got bit a decade or two ago. Dogs make me tense, and generally focus my entire attention on them, and on protecting myself from them — from them jumping up on me, from them licking me, etc. It is incredibly difficult to be calm and relaxed in a room where dogs exist.
One time my mom and I were dropping some food off for a relative who works late, and we had just decided that Mom was too tired to keep driving so I’d have to drive. Bear in mind, I have only been driving a couple years (I got my license at 35). We were on a tight schedule because Mom needed to be in bed like an hour before we’d get her there, as she had to wake early, and she drives a school bus.
The conversation, which we didn’t have much time to argue about, amounted to “Here’s an unexpected dog BYE.”
I tried to protest, but got overridden, and then I’m driving down the freeway with a dog in the back seat (being held by one of the kids).
The dog was a gem. Couldn’t ask for a better passenger. Didn’t make any noise, didn’t fuss, nothing.
That doesn’t matter to a PHOBIA. This was the occasion that reminded me how strong my phobia can get.
For several miles, I kept my eyes straight ahead on the freeway, not even checking my mirrors. I couldn’t. I was not a safe driver, not an aware driver; I was tunnel-visioning just to keep from breaking down. I had no time to break down and there was no other driver and Mom needed to be in bed.
My body was focused on the fact that there was a dog in the car. A dog I couldn’t do anything about. A dog I didn’t know anything about. A dog who could at any time do anything and I wouldn’t be able to react because I was driving.
It was like having a giant hornet in the car, and not being able to pull over. For about an hour.
Now, I doubt the reaction to Andi’s presence will be as strong as my reaction to that dog, but just think about being forced to be in a place that you normally consider a place of safety and relaxation and enjoyment, and instead of that you get unrelenting tenseness, irritation, and an undercurrent of anger.
This WILL NOT BE a happy Christmas for Amanda, unless she’s oblivious, and she has proven not to be oblivious.
It’s not going to be a good Christmas for Selkie either for the same reason.
Indeed.
Not sure how to solve that problem.
I would point out, though, that excluding Amanda from the celebration would be excluding a child who hasn’t learned any better.
Andi in no way has an excuse like that. However childish she may seem.
Everyone calling Andi manipulative… maybe?
She looks like she’s a kid who had abusive parents who split the holidays, and doesn’t want that for her kid (we already know her mom is abusive, and she has self-esteem issues… If nothing else, I don’t want Andi/Manda to have christmas alone, or worse, with her abusive mom that she seems to be trying continually to distance herself from).
Andi’s not a strong person, due to abuse, and wants to cling to something better (the awesome Smith Family).
At least, this is how I read it. I think she’s trying to make things “right”, by correcting past wrongs (giving up Amanda, lying about it, etc.). She went from trying to make each step easy for her (It was easy, at the time, to not fight for the right option for the birth, or to lie about it and hope it wouldn’t be known), to actually trying to take responsibility, and to get back into the lives of the people she’s changing for.
She *is* manipulative, but that’s because she’s been manipulated; it may well be the only way she knows to interact with people. It happens a *lot* in child abuse cases (See: School bullies who keep that attitude all through life, and become racists blaming minorities for their lack of success… they never learn a new set of skills, even when it should be obvious why they’re failing).
As a side note, that all of these things could be right is just a good example of the amazing writing in this comic, and why I’m still around years later~
No she isn’t. Anytime she hits a wall or is told NO by Todd she uses “Buh Amanda!!” And gets whatever she wants. She isn’t the victim. So stop painting her as one.
> Anytime she hits a wall or is told NO by Todd she uses “Buh Amanda!!” And gets whatever she wants.
So… like many shitty parents do, because *their* shitty parents did it?
How is staying away from some of the only people who could tolerate her daughter be a good thing for either of them?
And if you think someone who’s an abused child isn’t themselves a victim (especially to the point that bodily autonomy is violated?) you’ve really got a demented view on the world.
I’m demented because I don’t believe someone who manipulates others and is somewhat emotionally abusive should be allowed to force themselves in a situation they weren’t invited to?
You can play the “abused child” card to show why you got this way, but not to show why you remain that way or why people should give you a total pass no matter what you do. Andi’s an adult now. She’s even a parent, not just having had a kid but actually taking steps to try to raise one.
And yeah, shitty upbringing, but let’s take South Park’s wisdom on this one: “All right, let’s just say” Andi had a shitty childhood because she has a shitty, manipulative mother, and let’s say that it’s her mother’s fault that Andi lied to the family and didn’t have the backbone to come clean for eight years — and that Andi learned to be a shitty manipulator herself, not only using emotional blackmail to persuade people to do things, but also being unable to open up to Todd and his family emotionally back before this whole issue blew up in her face.
“Well that’s fine, except Andi has a child now, and when people have children, they have to GROW UP!”
So Andi doesn’t get to play the “I was abused” card indefinitely. And that card doesn’t have infinite powers to get her out of whatever uncomfortable situations she might come across.
She did some very bad things. Whether they were entirely her fault or not, they happened, they hurt Todd and his family in a way I can scarcely conceive of, and the wounds may be irreparable. Asking — not, hardly asking, DEMANDING — that Todd and his family just “get over it” because Andi grew up wrong is doing a great disservice to Todd and his family.
It’s also saying that “I was raised by a shitty parent” entirely trumps “A woman I used to trust with my soul lied to me about our daughter and sent her to a social torture chamber for eight years” — and I would disagree with you there.
Very bad things. Faking a child’s death for eight years isn’t ‘bad things’,that’s putting it too lightly don’t ya think?
I agree with you,don’t get me wrong. But very bad things just feels a little too light on what happened. I feel calling it betrayl is best.
Definitely manipulative. Thing is, it’s one thing to have Amanda’s parents together for christmas. It’s another for Andi to shove herself onto Todd’s parents and siblings. The better solution would be for Andi, Todd, Amanda and Selkie to have thier own celebration sometime on Christmas, and supplment it with a trip to Todd’s parents and siblings, sans Andi.
Yes, absolutely. A short Christmas visit between the four of them would be fine. Having Andi incorporated into the relaxed, enjoyable, everybody-having-fun Grandparents visit is NOT OKAY.
That’s what should happen. Todd uses his brain and tells Andi it’s not a good idea for her to join them. Andi makes up an excuse to Amanda on why she wont be joining them, and encourages Amanda to go anyway. Amanda spends Christmas Day with Andi, and Todd and Selkie can join them if the want. It’s not hard to solve to this situation if they would just think through it a little.
I’d be fine with your proposed solution, my only issue would be considerations for cash (which is my own projection from my childhood), which is why I discounted a similar prospect.
You may be correct on every point, but she has still point blank forced herself to be there for every interaction the Smiths have had with Amanda without giving them time to learn to like Amanda for herself. This is not a good situation. Andi really needs to be mature and back off.
Reminds me of two things:
1. Terrified person with weapon is approached by policeman who only wants to help them (e.g. in CSI or Law & Order). Policeman in show almost NEVER just stands there talking. No, it’s inch forward, inch forward, scare them more, rile up their fight-or-flight response, escalate the situation, increase the odds of something drastic happening…
I have never understood why they don’t just stand still, entirely still, and talk it out, thus allowing the person with the weapon to feel safer and not feel increasing threat. If I had the weapon and I was freaked out I sure wouldn’t let a person keep approaching me — I’d shoot ’em!
2. My sister-in-law once was on the outs with my brother — after a MAJOR event that involved the cops, and had her under a no-contact order — and as I was acting as a live-in babysitter while things worked themselves out, she, in defiance of the law, would not stop calling him. Trying to beg her way back into his life. Saying anything she could about how she’s changed, she’s learned her lesson, she’ll never do it again, they can make it right, all this stuff.
My brother has a history of narcolepsy from lack of sleep. He once woke up with his car IN THE RIVER. He has to wake up for work at like 4 A.M. This woman phones him at TWO A.M. to try to make up. That right there told me she was far more concerned with her own emotional state and her fears for the future than she was for him, his comfort, his safety, his job, the law, or any other factors in play.
But they’ve just got a history of fights, of domestic problems that involve cops, of breaking up and getting back together, of total instability that the children have learned to tune out. (The time we picked them up to get them away from an ugly event, they just got into the car and cheerfully chatted with us on the way home. And she had the nerve to think they were traumatized if they were apart from her for 24 hours.)
Anyway, they’re still together and I hope they eventually get to a point of stability. But the point is, Andi is in very many ways like my sister-in-law, incapable of seeing things from the other person’s point of view, incapable of putting others before herself, incapable of taking actions that are right when they don’t feel good… and an emotionally manipulative abuser to boot.
I hope by the end of this story, she will have become something else, something better. But it does no one any good to rush into things while there hasn’t been time to heal.
Andi is Amanda’s guardian, it really isn’t inappropriate for her to accompany Amanda to joint activities. Amanda is recovering from some trauma, she needs someone to just spend a lot of time with her to give her some sense of reliability and safety. Now that Andi isn’t running away from Todd on sight, she is very good at that. It is probably appropriate for her to spend more time with Amanda than is normal for a parent of a child of Amanda’s age. Andi isn’t constantly forcing her presence, she is just being responsible. It is pretty obvious that with things as they are she is uncomfortable with Todd’s family aside from herself and Amanda.
Amanda is Todd’s Daughter. Andi is Amanda’s mother. That makes Andi family. Todd’s parents almost certainly want Andi to be there. It was pretty obvious that they saw potential for Andi to earn their forgiveness. Andi is not the one forcing this, Todd is trying to force her out. Todd pretty much uses his parents as a backup way to get rid of Andi here and it is pretty clear that that is completely unfounded. Todd is sort of off hid rocker right at this precise moment.
… So anyways Todd needs a girlfriend… Not the teacher though, and I don’t want to see him get one just to get one.
But, just nothing more says I have moved on then having someone else in the spot you used to have.
Andi has been called a lot of things. And they are certainly justified from an outside view. But if you see it from her eyes, she and Todd are just on a bump in the road and will get passed this, and she is lonely and hurting and wants to be with the man that was her best friend and lover since she was a child.
I AM NOT DEFENDING ANDI. I just understand. When someone cuts you off in traffic they are an asshole. When you weren’t paying attention and accidentally cut someone off, you were distracted by work, and there is a lot of traffic, and your in a hurry, and your sorry, etc. To you its justified and okay.
My father used to say, Excuses are like assholes, everyone has one and they all stink.
Even a date would do wonders in getting the point across. Like maybe a cute architect in the office that flirts with him and he takes out for New Years Eve. I don’t normally approve of dating the people you work with, too messy if things go south, but in this case I can see it being a good thing. Someone with a similar educational background, something in common.
And if Andi calls Todd and asks what he’s doing and he says that he’s about to leave out the door to drop Selkie off with her grandfather and grandmother as he goes out on a hot date, well there’s no harm in that either.
I am absolutely defending Andi. The only reason that they broke up was that she was mentally broken by keeping a secret. With the secret gone they could actually get back together. It would take a lot of time to adjust first. It wouldn’t be much good to replace her being constantly hostile because she constantly feels horrible to her being a complete punching-bag because of rampant guilt, but there is absolutely the potential for them to get back together if they can realise that there was, in fact, one specific thing that ruined their relationship, and it is, in fact, gone…
Actually they broke up because she was uninterested in adoption for having children and he took offense to that since it was insulting to him and what his family stood for.
Nope, sorry no, you can be amicable to the ex, but in the end you are already split, what about next Christmas? is next Christmas be OK for her to be without both their parents?? what about the Christmas next after that one???
THEY SPLIT UP, they are NO LONGER a couple, is the kid hurting? YES but doing things just to make the kid happy is not the proper way of handling things
If he didn’t want the kid to feel bad he should have gone back to her the moment she came inside with the kid, but if the position he’s gotten into is about NOT going back with her then he can’t seriously consider having her as part of the family, a family that doesn’t exist
and sadly, I know that Andi is only doing this to get him to spend time with her and probably get back together
I learned all this the hard way by the way, I’m talking from experience.
TIL there is a type of apartment called an efficiency.
I never heard of it before either. I had to check if it was the same thing as a studio, which it is.
There seems to be a discrepancy with how Dave described the building. If there are 3 apartments on each floor situated in different parts of the U, then why do we see 3 apartment doors on the same wall and another one at the end of that hallway?
possible fire escape/stairwell door? possible general use cleaning gear closet? um… maybe one apartment has two doors?
Im reasonably sure that the shiny door at the end of the hallway with the buttons next to it might be an elevator
The one at the end of the hallway is a stairwell.
This won’t go badly at all! (sarcasm)
Todd’s final line implies he’s going to ask his parents if it’s okay Andi joins them, but the ‘surprise guests’ mention in the commentary suggests he is not … either way I don’t foresee a merry and tension-free Christmas for the Smiths.
I really don’t think this is truly in Amanda’s best interests at all. Amanda needs to form relationships with her grandparents, aunt and uncle without it all being influenced by her mother’s relationships with said people. And as HentMas mentioned, they’re not really thinking about longterm effects. This will only set a precedent of Andi worming her way into Todd’s family’s affairs.
I think it’s telling that Andi’s first response was about herself and she only brought up Amanda when Todd shut down her first argument hard…
Indeed. Andi really needs to get her stuff together. She needs to form her own support network and stop clinging to Todd’s.
Indeed.
Imagine, if you will, a person — Bob — who is generally a nice, loving, kind person. But Bob has a history with Alice, a manipulative b*tch, and on those rare occasions when Bob has to interact with Alice, he is angry, surly, curt, and slams doors as an alternative to punching her in the face. And Alice is good at looking like a whipped puppy and an innocent victim, so it never looks like she’s causing the problem, causing Bob to react that way.
Is it fair to Bob if, say, his granddaughter develops an understanding of him only when Alice is there — an understanding that he is an angry, surly, curt person who slams doors, and not at all the nice, loving kind person he is when he’s not interacting with the one thing that pushes all his buttons?
It’s like only getting to see your grandpa when he’s in the hospital, or on medication that makes him cry all the time, or only when he’s dressed up for a trial. It’s not a fair impression of him.
I was hoping she’d say that. Pretty much sums it up perfectly. You may not be a couple anymore, but as long as you have kids together, you’re family.
No they’re not. She’s being manipulative af and not even considering that no one other than Amanda would want her there. But selfish her doesn’t care.
She can be manipulative, selfish, self-centered, and still be ABSOLUTELY RIGHT about Amanda’s first Christmas.
Is the point you seem to be overlooking.
No she can’t. It’s gross and incredibly abusive and WRONG.
It’s gross and incredibly abusive and WRONG for Amanda to have both parents present on her first Christmas knowing she HAS parents?
Your notions of right and wrong are deeply, deeply flawed.
She could be all those things, Anna; she could be a horrible person who is right. That is a thing that could happen.
It is not happening in this instance. Or, at least, the majority of the comments section seems to disagree with the assessment by Todd. Though to be fair, he’s making it in the heat of the moment, while arguing with a woman who knows how to hit his weak spots.
So hey, you know what’s a thing?
A man rapes a woman. The woman decides not to abort the child or adopt them out, but keep them. So the woman now has a baby who is genetically linked to that man.
In some states in the United States — I would say “in far too many states,” but the truth is that ONE STATE would be FAR TOO MANY STATES — that rapist can now demand that the court give them visitation rights with their kid. And there isn’t a thing the rape victim can do about it.
The rapist can then get unsupervised visits with his daughter. Even if the rapist’s victim was a youngster at the time she got raped. Even if it’s likely that the rapist will just go on to rape his own daughter. If this can’t be proven to the court’s satisfaction, that rapist — even a convicted rapist, even one whose victim was definitely underage at the time — can have access to his kid, because hey, it’s his genetic offspring after all.
HAVING A KID WITH SOMEONE DOES NOT MAKE THEM FAMILY.
what a warped way of looking at that
it’s still his kid. he has to provide for it (if they catch him). why SHOULDN’T he get to be a father to it? Hell, in civilized societies he’s forced to marry her and provide for her the rest of her life.
And you know the worst part? The rapist’s defense attorney is required to do anything they can to get them off, and “You could offer to waive your parental rights in exchange for the victim to drop the charges” is pretty much advice they [i]have[/i] to give if it’s valid.
I have strong feelings about plea-bargaining, but understand it to be one of the ways we make do with limited resources (including the number of cases vastly outnumbering the time of lawyers and courtrooms — see Last Week Tonight’s Public Defenders episode, I think that’s the one where they point out some people have so many cases to go over they can only devote a couple MINUTES to each one).
Perhaps there should be some threshold above which plea-bargaining cannot happen. But then, it must also be acknowledged that some victims can’t take the emotional stress of a trial, so there needs to be some way for a perp to get legal repercussions without going to trial — if the victim is okay with the trade-off.
But as for a defense attorney doing everything they possibly can to get a client off? That is absolutely the right way for the system to work.
The thing is, when you are in the position of defending someone, you defend them to the very best of your ability. Because the same laws that can convict a guilty person, can convict an innocent person who happens to appear guilty. If you see something wrong with the way the evidence was gathered, if you see a way that the trial is being pushed through just because everyone “knows” the guy’s guilty, you pounce on that, you beat it into the ground. We can’t leave bits of the justice system that allow for assumptions to rule instead of established, well-attested facts.
That’s why movies like The Green Mile and Twelve Angry Men are so important. They remind us that our system has to provide for innocence even when all the evidence seems to indicate guilt. The accused should not have to struggle for justice — our system should fight for justice regardless. And it’s better to let fifty guilty guys go free than punish one innocent person.
Raising a kid does make them family. Amanda Andi’s family and Todd’s family. Selkie is Andi’s family even though they are not the same species. Todd pretending that Andi is not part of his family is little different to Amanda pretending that Selkie is not part of HER family. If anything, Amanda has more legitimacy to refuse Selkie because Amanda is only linked via Todd and that link is currently sort of strained being little more than biological itself. Not that Todd and Amanda are not family, they are working on it, but these things take time and that bond is not strong yet.
From the of comments it seems that the majority would be happy if Andi went up and die a horrible death.
Did Dave say he was going to kill off Andi at some point and Todd would then find out about Amanda? For some reason I think I remember reading that a few months ago but it would take me a while to find it. Does anyone else remember this or am I imagining it?
Yes he did, original plan for the story was for Andi to die and Todd to get both girls. I think the story is more interesting for having her than not even though I dislike her.
As for above, only speak for myself but I don’t want Andi to die, I just want her to grow up and start acting like the adult she is supposed to be.
I believe you are thinking of something I mentioned in the behind-the-scenes commentary. In early drafts of the story, Andi kind of got “put in the fridge” as TVTropes would put it, and hit by a car when going to pick-up/claim Amanda. She would have then told Todd about Amanda on her deathbed and Todd would have reclaimed her into his household.
I basically decided Andi deserved better treatment than being callously discarded once her plot impetus was over, and that she could be a more interesting character if she remained in the story and worked through her past mistakes instead of being given a fast and cheap deathbed absolution.
It was definitely a plot twist, Dave. But I feel you are holding a can of potential ‘Unfortunate Implications’ with this, depending on what you choose to have happen. Did you ever expect these responses when you decided to have Andi live?
No we don’t. We want her to realize the DAMAGE she has caused and try to understand where these guys are coming from instead of being manipulative.
I don’t want Andi to die – I actually think she can do a lot of good – but I do think she needs therapy and to stop trying to use Amanda as a way to get what she wants. “Hey, here’s the kid you always wanted now you have to have me too” is definitely the vibe I’m getting. And the therapy is a sincere request. Anyone who has been abused – and she was by her mother – should have a safe place with a dr. that can give techniques and maybe meds – where she can go with her problems. And that would probably give her perspective on why her adopting Amanda isn’t going to rewind the time to when she really saw Todd as happy.
Couples therapy would actually be a good thing. They may not be a couple now, but they certainly have a lot of couples issues, and very few non-couples issues…
We want her to be less manipulative and grow up.
Genuinely curious; how does an abuse victim “Grow up” without an external supportive environment?
How is Andi this?
Wait… are you asking how *Andi* is an abuse victim?
Her mother is extremely abusive. Possibly narcissistic, though that may be a step too far. Remember *why* Andi did what she did?
And she should get support from anyone she can… it may be nigh impossible for her to get help from most others, and professional help is extremely costly. The Smiths are damn good people who already know her situation. If she laid it all out and asked for help, they’d bury the hatchet.
Have you ever met someone like her, and helped them on the road to recovery? Have you ever worked with anyone with an abusive past? Maybe a habitual liar, for something like it? Someone with Mania, who will say all kinds of things while manic and not in control, and weep to take it back moments later?
You seem to be someone who uses a very outdated ethical standard, instead of a modern one. What ethical standard do you carry, if you don’t mind my asking?
YO WHERE. She hasn’t actually shown anything like that or was shown to be openly abusive? The utter heck?
Like yes. Her mom is an a–hole. But has she been shown to be an abusive one? WHERE? Just WHERE?
Yeah. I’ve never dealt with someone who faked a baby’s death. Then told me she was alive and then manipulated herself into my life.
Oh excuse me for not being okay with a human being who is manipulating her ex,only seems to have gotten her kid to win him back and had given his family plant ashes. Plant ashes and said “hey here’s her body! whoo!” is outdated. Excuse me. I mean that’s not rude or nasty and unacceptable. But EXCUUUUUSE ME for not being forgiving towards someone who is openly toxic.
SCUUUSE ME. This obviously makes me a throwback villain with no feelings. Soooooorrrrrrryyyyyyy!
> She hasn’t actually shown anything like that or was shown to be openly abusive?
588-591? Seems like she was pushing her to carry it to term, despite her arguments against it, as was Todd? Is that not abuse where you’re from?
Abortion is the only acceptable answer for them, but she doesn’t take it due to outside pressure, both from her then-boyfriend (who’s an idiot) and from her mom (who seems to have a chip on her shoulder).
I mean… Amanda went on to be the poster child for *why* we have abortions, which makes things easier, but still…
There’s a lot of grey area in the comic, but her not having a spine is nothing new and, psychologically, usually comes from overbearing (read: abusive) parents.
Maybe you just have a lower bar for what you consider child abuse? Do you not consider spanking to be child abuse, for example?
And you still haven’t answered the questions as to what ethics you’re applying here, that you seem to hate Andi so. She’s damaged, and she’s trying to get better, and yet you seem so wrathful for… no reason at all?
Did you forget that the Smiths are working to forgive her, and that she’s working with them, and meeting their requests? She wants her life back, because her mom pushed her to throw it all away and run instead of do the right thing, and she’s only just realizing that, in any real way.
That wasn’t her Mom’s choice. That was Andi’s decision. But I guess we can blame it on anyone but her huh? There was no mention of her Mother forcing her not to get an abortion.
Just Andi talking about getting Amanda and rehashing what happened.
In other words. We all wanna pretend that Andi’s mom is abusive when she wasn’t doing anything of the sort.
Also your abortion comment is disgusting. Amanda needs help. She doesn’t deserve to have been aborted you’re disgusting for thinking that of an abused child.
I also do think spanking is abusive. But Andi seems to not be one of the abused kids. She’s a manipulative lying a-hole who insulted her ex’s family and is using her child as a shield. Did that not somehow seem clear enough for you?! And not everyone has to forgive her. Todd actually hasn’t. But I guess you’re one of the “Forgive and forget even when it was something disgusting as Andi pulled!!!!!”
Don’t put all spanking into the category of abuse. People who spank their children are not automatically abusers. They can be, I will not argue that, but to say ALL are is just wrong. I was spanked for Big Things, but it only happened maybe half a dozen times throughout my entire childhood. My mom did a lot of things I don’t agree with, but spanking me was not one of them, and overall had the least negative effect on me of anything she did. I will challenge anyone who accuses the woman who would have gone to the grave protecting me from ACTUAL abuse of being abusive.
Just like you can give a kid a dressing-down without being verbally abusive, you can give a kid a spanking without being physically abusive. It all depends on why, how, and how often the punishment is applied.
I’m also weighing in on spanking being not inherently abusive. However, I no longer believe that it’s reasonable as an after-the-fact punishment; I view it only as one possible tool to stop a meltdown/tantrum, and almost exclusively for kids too young to listen to reasoning (because if you were able to listen to reasoning and change your behavior, you wouldn’t need the spanking).
I actually have a long-winded explanation for why I believe this, but we’re already at the thin section of the comments 😛
As for the abortion part: It could be argued that abortion would’ve been a good solution for their problems.
It CANNOT be argued that it was “THE ONLY ACCEPTABLE ANSWER.” What the hell.
Claiming that abortion is “the only right answer” is as reprehensible as claiming that adoption is “the only right answer.” The couple’s the one that gets to make this decision, not random people who aren’t part of that couple. We can point out the pros and cons, not claim that one particular solution is The One True Way.
In this case, we can see that adoption didn’t work out well for Amanda — sometimes it doesn’t. That in and of itself doesn’t change the calculation, because there’s a lot of times when adoption ends quite happily.
As for abortion, I don’t see any part that says Andi was definitely considering it. I see “I didn’t want to be a mom” and then “you convinced me to give her up for adoption.” Andi could well have been planning to keep Amanda (and put up with a situation she didn’t feel equipped to handle) before she got convinced that adoption was the best choice for her. (It also doesn’t seem like she was fully convinced, just kind of caught up in the flow of a bad decision.)
There are plenty of people in the world who don’t see abortion as a reasonable option, let alone The Only Acceptable Option. And there are plenty who see it as an option of last resort — an option used only when the child would be badly damaged, or the mother’s health is at risk, or sometimes in the case of a rape (though even that is not accepted by everyone, or even every rape victim).
Had Andi been better equipped (emotionally) to handle disappointing Todd, she could’ve talked it out with him, like a reasonable couple, and they could’ve decided together that adoption was the right choice. Or they could’ve decided that abortion was the right choice. Or Todd could’ve allayed Andi’s fears and they could’ve decided together that keeping Amanda was the right choice.
It could also have led to what happened in my extended family — adoption by relatives. Todd’s parents, or possibly one of his siblings, could have stepped in to handle the kid until Todd and Andi felt up to the job — or permanently, if need be. Andi never allowed for that possibility.
If you make the decision for your child with no input from the other person whose child it is — then you don’t deserve to be in that relationship. If you make the decision with no input from them, AND you lie about it so you can salvage the relationship so you don’t have to lose your support and comfort zone — then you don’t deserve to be in ANY relationship.
Because lying to someone so they don’t know the information that would make them reconsider whether to remain in a relationship with you… that is proof that you have no regard for their free will, their right to informed consent, their long-term emotional health, any of that. It means you don’t respect them as a person, and value your own comfort over their HUMAN RIGHTS.
Basically, it means you’re a pile of shit. Maybe, MAYBE, if you play the abuse card, it could be argued that you’re not a pile of shit — but in that case, you’re damaged enough that your partner needs to have all the information laid out so they can decide IF they want to maintain a relationship with you and HOW they want to maintain that relationship.
Andi may well need a support structure. I don’t doubt that. She needs some good people in her life who are able to train her to do better, by example. Todd’s family may in fact choose to help her.
But they don’t HAVE to. And if they choose not to, that doesn’t make them horrible people.
Andi worming her way into the social life of the people she drove away through her own actions… it’s hitting all the danger signals.
Holy cow that was long, sorry.
Also why should she get support from those she’s manipulating and lied to?
Hence my mention of therapy. What very little we’ve seen of Andi’s mother shoots the abuse vibe I would get off Andi. Andi has a stable awesome job. She does have other friends (we’ve seen her on the phone with at least). She’s acting very young in terms of this. I don’t want her dead, but she is really only prolonging a hurt for Amanda. If she could just have a “I was young and scared and let myself be manipulated” conversation with Amanda, it would help so much, but instead she’s lying again – to the Smiths and to herself and to Amanda.
Neither do I. But I’d prefer a manipulative gross liar to be around the people she’s hurt.
That might have been the case quite a long time ago during the comic, but it is no longer the case. I’m not alone in thinking that she’s a redeemable character and a lot more understandable than when she first got introduced and we became aware of what a tremendously evil thing she had done.
But now, understanding that evil, and its effect on this family, we are saying almost with one voice that it is wrong to let her neediness and emotional manipulation lead to a situation that will negatively affect 100% of the other people at that get-together.
Right now it’s a choice — a choice Todd seems to have made — between (1) hurting Andi and potentially hurting Amanda as well, and (2) creating a situation that continually reminds the entire family that they missed out on the previous seven Christmases because of the cowardice of this woman who just wormed her way into the celebration. (And they don’t know as much as we know about the factors that led her to do it.)
Part of me would like to see the grandma bring out a bag of presents along the lines of “Here’s what we would’ve gotten you on your first Christmas… and on your second… and on your third…” but that is far meaner (to Andi and to Amanda) than she would ever do.
I would not mind if Andi suddenly caught on fire. But that is less the character and a personal bias I have gotten into in the past so I won’t reiterate. She is a useful antagonist, and while I was told that she wasn’t technically an antagonist in the past I doubt many people would argue now.
We’re stuck with her, we don’t have to like it, but we’re stuck with her until she leaves the comic, which won’t happen or she matures.
Plot-wise, what are we looking at here? It’s like a double-layer plot, right, with Selkie as protagonist, Todd as deuteragonist (possibly I have those backwards). You’ve got the kids doing things and the adults doing things.
Selkie’s antagonist is Amanda.
Todd’s current antagonist is Andi.
There’s also the conspiracy stuff going on, but that’s largely background. Finding out more about what’s going on is a goal, but not the main goal.
Which makes me question: What IS the main goal, right now?
I mean, the temporary goal is to have a nice Christmas, and get Amanda kind of inducted into the family through a significant ritual.
But the definition of antagonist is “the one who most strongly interferes with the main goal of the protagonist.” Andi is interfering with Todd’s desire to have an Andi-free Christmas, and/or a tension-free household during Christmas.
I feel like I’m missing some part of the breakdown, here.
Passively/aggressively played, Andi.
She really hasn’t learned anything, has she?
That’s an insulting statement. I don’t see anywhere in this comic’s comment that anyone wants Andi to die. They want her to shape up and quit clinging to Todd and his family.
Todd’s family wants Amanda, and Andi is Amanda’s family. Andi can either cling to Amanda(Todd’s family), abandon Amanda(Todd is not equipped to raise Amanda), or Todd’s family can abandon Amanda. Andi WAS toxic to Todd’s family, and it wasn’t really her fault. Andi is no longer a problem for Todd’s family, there really is no benefit to distancing themselves. They still have a lot of issues from their past to work through, but Andi really isn’t doing any damage anymore.
As for what people deserve? I find that “deserve” is a thing that only exists in fiction. This is, of course, fiction, but it doesn’t really seem to be focusing on the “deserve” angle…
I think Todd is more equipped to raise Amanda then Andi is.
I really wish they had clarified what exactly the original plans were because this comic leaves me with the impression Todd planned on keeping Amanda both Christmas Eve and potentially Christmas morning? If that’s the case asking Andi to stay away (however justified he is in not wanting her around) would be pretty unreasonable.
A good point. Commenters here have been assuming it’s only for Christmas Eve, and Amanda would go back to Andi for Christmas Day, but only because that is a common arrangement when a couple is divorced. I’m pretty sure it hasn’t been stated anywhere in the comic.
Divorced couples know that they have to work out some sort of formal arrangement for holidays, right? It’s obvious. They need to have that conversation. “You take her for Christmas Eve, then I will pick her up and take her home for Christmas Day.” “Oh, um. Okay, but how about we alternate? Next year we switch.” “But midnight mass is a family tradition…” Something like that. There’s a negotiation, and then, one hopes, an agreement both can live with.
But Todd and Andi clearly didn’t talk about this at all. They’ve both been making assumptions. I’m not going to blame either of them here – they’ve been catapulted into this shared-parenthood thing unexpectedly without any of the formal structure that comes with a divorce. Holidays are a bump in the road that neither of them had thought through. All the same. They didn’t have that conversation, so they’re forced to have it now at the last minute.
If the normal Christmas at the Smiths has always included traditions for both Christmas Eve and Christmas Day, then what Todd was assuming without even asking was, “We get Amanda for all of Christmas. Period. Andi gets to spend Christmas alone, which serves her right. And Amanda gets to spend it… oh, without her mom. Hm.”
Until we find out what the usual Christmas celebration had been in past years, we can’t really judge how blinkered Todd was being. Maybe not at all. If the Smiths only celebrate on Christmas Eve, as some families do, then it was quite reasonable for him to think (if it occurred to him at all): “But the two of them can do stuff together on Christmas Day, so hey, that’ll be all right.”
Nevertheless, if they were divorced, someone would have pointed out to them that they needed to talk about holidays.
I just want to add that I think both of them are acting absolutely in character. Excellent writing, Dave! As usual.
Yeah, that’s a reasonable summary. Todd can be oblivious, and may have been in this case. We don’t really know what their family does; I just assumed that he at least had in mind the idea of splitting the event so Andi could have time with her as well.
I know I’m in the minority or perhaps only one herebut I think Andi realizes they’re over and that Todd no longer wants to see her even as a friend… but that she truly doesn’t want to upset Amanda and rather is not using Amanda as a shield nor is she being manipulative. I think she truly cares about how Amanda perceives this whole thing.
Sure, Andi is clearly lonely as was expecting more than she should here, but I don’t think she’s inentionally trying to use Amanda as a way to worm her in with Todd’s family. She knows they don’t like her and she’s aware she can’t do much to change that now.
And as far as Todd’s, ‘holiday is family time’ nonsense, well Andi is family. Amanda’s family. And she always will be. But holiday is whoever you damn well please time in my opinion. Todd and his family are well within their right not to want Andi around, but they need to either realize that may mean no Amanda, because if Amanda wants her mom their, they’ve either got to deal with it and be civil or shun Amanda like they want to shun Andi, since Amanda seems to think her mom comes as a package deal with her.
As long as Andi realizes her and Todd are over (Which is think she has, at this point, however sad it may make her.) I think it’s not hard to have her around. Andi doesn’t really do anything as far as we know. She stays quiet and doesn’t speak unless spoken to or unless she’s telling Amanda to behave or just saying hello out of courtesy.
Todd needs to try and get a handle on his anger around his kids. He makes it painfully obvious he has disdain for Andi and does a piss poor job at covering it up around the kids. He can loathe her all he wants (Though I think that’s unhealthy for him.) but he needs to keep it in check around the kids. Like, I don’t care if he can’t stand Andi, that’s fine and its his right, but try to not make a scene.
Same goes for Andi. She needs to hold back on her feelings. I know it tears her up to know someone she loved and considered her best friend hates her and cut himself out of her life suddenly, but she needs to keep her feelings in check, because it’s just going to hurt Amanda and give her false hope. She really needs to find herself a good boyfriend so that she can gain some confidence and independence from her mother. Amanda probably wouldn’t like it, but it’d make it more real for her that Todd and Andi aren’t a couple anymore. Sadly, if Todd gets a girlfriend first, I feel like Amanda will spite him and feel like he is betraying her mom.
It’s such a complicated situation. I truly think it’d be better if Andi had never told Todd about Amanda and just reclaimed her and went about her life since neither party can handle the situation. Todd wanted Andi out of his life after all. It’s too late now and that sucks, because I think Andi and Amanda would be better off without Todd and Todd and Selkie would be better off without Andi and Amanda. There’s just too much fiction on all ends for this to ever really work.
We have an “Uncle Steve” who’s not related to any of us in any way; he’s just close enough to the family (or was while I was growing up — my mom babysat him and his sister before the bus came, and all that) that I feel comfortable calling him that.
You can have family without it being legally-speaking family. People choose families for themselves at times.
But then, it might not be the reality for all families, so okay, point conceded.
I don’t think it’s ever best for a parent to be denied knowledge of their own kid. Regardless of the problems it brings up. UNLESS the parent is kept out through some horrible thing they did (such as if it’s a child of rape: the rapist shouldn’t have the right to know their biological offspring, but sadly the court system sometimes thinks they do).
You are at least making me realize that I’ve been arguing that Todd and his family have strong enough feelings that they shouldn’t be expected to keep them fully in check, while also arguing that Andi has to stop acting on her feelings and just stay the f*ck away from Todd and his family, with the exception of the minimum contact necessary to ensure that Amanda gets to know her family.
So now I’m wondering if that’s fair to Andi, whose emotions are even worse than Todd’s, because it’s harder to deal with your own failings than to deal with others having done bad things to you. Most of the time. But then again, it’s also her fault, which puts her problems lower on the totem pole. Hmm.
Andi is also entirely alone in this. She has zero support from her mother, no support from Todd (Not that it’s expected of him.) and no friends either. She’s alone in this. It’s bound to be hard on her. Also. Look at that expression in the last panel, that’s not someone who’s triumphant in successfully manipulating someone into getting what she wants. That’s an expression of, “Yeah, this is awful. Everyone hates me. I know. It’s not like I really want to sit around while everyone drips venom at me for my very existence.” her expression is one of realization that she’s unwanted and that she can’t change it.
I’m more sympathetic towards Andi, simply because she grew up alone, save for Todd, with an emotionally crippling mother. She made no friends, save for Todd, because she’s socially awkward and her mother probably embarrassed her to the point of her not wanting to bring anyone over. Andi is stunted emotionally and mentally.
While I do feel bad for Todd and his family, they failed to realize all those years that there was something severely wrong with Andi’s home life. She’s too timid and scared to ask for help, she needed someone to notice and no one ever did.
It doesn’t excuse her actions, but it explains them. She literally had never been taught any better and then sort of… just ended up on her own, with her only pillar of support and connection in the world being her emotionally abusive mother, who convinced her (I believe so anyway.) that Todd did not love her nor would he be there for her, but SHE would. And Amdi, already a hormonal, emotionally damaged wreck, believed her in her time of weakness. I think her mother even convinced her to lie about Amanda and the reason she wants NOTHING to do with Amanda now is because of the consequences SHE will face when it comes to light how she manipulated her daughter.
I don’t think Andi has the capability to consciously be manipulative. Traits that are clear in her are her timid nature to avoid conflict and shutting down and taking abuse dealt to her. She retreats and cries to herself. While she has shown tendencies of desperation, I believe it’s mostly just her grasping at what little she has and tries to reason the only way she knows how, with earnest emotions. A lot of people think she’s emotionally manipulative with her words and actiona, but all I see is a sad, lonely little girl crying out for help and begging to be forgiven for her mistakes and acts out the only way she knows how.
No, no one should just forgive her for what she’s done and leave it at that, but she does deserve a chance. And she’s truly trying. She’s trying so hard with Amanda to help her and trying so hard to make Amanda realize Selkie doesn’t deserve to be hated for existing.
She probably relates to Selkie a lot.
The reason I think she’s being manipulative, since I want it clear why I think she is is quite simple. She insulted adoption, calling it babysitting to a man that’s entire family is adopted. His brother and sister, adopted, by his parents. She knows this, she had to know it would be a sticky point.
Then when she get’s Amanda, after revealing the truth, touched his leg and suggested that things could be back to how they were after she revealed the horrible way she betrayed him. That’s when it went from “well her mother pushed her to give up Amanda” to “all right, bitch gotta pay for her crimes”.
She might be obliviously manipulative. I fully admit that. She might not see how this is putting Todd in a horrible position and is pressing the wrong buttons. You could be right and she is just trying to keep from getting sucked into the undertow.
But I just can’t help but think that some people in your life are just toxic and Andi feels so damn toxic to me. She committed the greatest betrayal she could and it is still hurting Todd. Yes, she was pushed and when we meet her mom for more than a few comics and we get to truly know the beast from the east then I will put her on blast as well. But Andi is just one of those people that I feel you just keep out of your life as best as you can or they will just keep hurting you.
A dog with sharpened nails will keep hurting you when he plays, you don’t let him keep scratching you, you get those nails trimmed. If Andi is going to be in Todd’s life in some capacity, he needs to keep her trimmed and never let her hurt him again.
She apologized for what she said and said it was insensitive and that she didn’t mean it. I mean, she still said it, but she regretted it and admitted she shouldn’t have phrased it that way.
As far as keeping her from hurting him, Todd needs to work on that too. He can’t expect things to just happen over night. He needs to be clear with Andi. He goes back and forth with being civil with her, to being down right mean in a minute. He’s inadvertently yanking her around. He either needs to tell her he never wants to see her and risk never seeing Amanda for it or remain civil. They don’t even have to be friends, but treat her as if you would treat a business transaction. Polite and to the point. He needs to lay out clear ground rules and have her agree to them or they need to come to a mutual agreement.
I’m not saying Andi needs to be involved with everything unless that’s what Amanda wants. If that’s what Amanda wants, they need to talk to her about it if Todd can’t bear to be around Andi. It’s OK if he can’t. But he may need to come to terms with Amanda not wanting to see him.
Insulting someone’s family and only apologizing because she seems to want forgiveness isn’t how an apology works. She didn’t acknowledge how she hurt him or even tried to. And quite frankly she’s been making it difficult to get along with when it doesn’t seem like she genuinely is keeping Amanda because she wanted her back.
Especially when she did this immediately after she found out that Todd adopted Selkie.
I agree, he needs to put everything on the table. The problem is, he wants to be the “good guy”. He wants to show both Selkie and Amanda that he is all happiness and joy when we can see clearly he is still hurt and angry. Even though children can sense such things as the act they are and it’s unhealthy for them.
I said a few strips ago that for me, I wouldn’t be as kind. I would let Amanda in and shut the door in Andi’s face. And then explain my reasoning to Amanda so she knows it’s not Amanda it’s me with the issue. Right now, I’m beginning to think as mean as that gesture is, it might be the kindest cut because at least it sets up a clear intention.
Todd is skirting the issues just as much as Andi by not addressing it. He needs to set up a time to talk to her while the kids are in school or with Mari and Theo for a day and meet Andi in a coffee shop or a café. He needs to ask Andi why she did what she did and give her a chance to speak instead of getting super pissed and blowing up before she has a chance. If, once she’s explained, he still resents her, then cool, no big deal, but he needs to let her talk. I get the feeling a majority of their relationship was Todd talking and Andi just… being. This is just as much her fault as his, but I think she NEVER got her feelings across from the start with him and it needs to change for Amanda’s sake and for Andi to grow.
After THAT mess is out of the way and Todd expresses how HE feels about it. They need to talk about Amanda. If Todd doesn’t want Andi around then he needs to TELL HER. Lay it all out. Lay down your ground rules and she lays down hers and they come to a mutual agreement. BUT they need to inform Amanda that they are no longer together for a reason and that they don’t want to really see each other. If Amanda cannot come to terms with this and demands that her mother be involved with her time with Todd then something else needs to be done. Either Andi buck up and tell Amanda that can’t happen forever and ask her if her father means something to her enough to want him around even without Andi or Todd needs to just deal with Andi being there until Amanda is comfortable enough to be without her mom for the holidays.
I think the former can happen, because I do believe Amanda will begrudgingly realize Todd and Andi are no longer together. His family DOES need to remain polite to her in Amanda’s presence though, otherwise she’s just going to resent them and think they’re terrible people.
Also, Mari and Theo should have a talk with Andi’s mom.
You make good points, after all, the best disinfectant is sunlight. She does need to nut up and tell Todd how she feels because I do agree with you that she probably was the sub in the relationship and was just kind of there. That and his tendency to get all happy without looking around himself probably exasperated things.
I doubt that Andi will ever get Todd comfortable with her again. She committed a grand betrayal and it is one thing you just don’t get over. It hurts….and it’s a hurt that sticks and eats you inside. You ask questions, all of them why type questions. It can drive a parent insane.
But what I really want is to see Andi’s mom. I want to meet this woman because frankly what we saw, while damning is not enough. I do not have enough of a feeling one way or the other to go on about her. I have seen enough to see how domineering she is. But is she just domineering to Andi? Is she domineering to everyone? Has she had bad history with Todd? What is her deal? She might be acting the way she is to get some power she feels she’s missing, how far has she taken this? These are all questions I want an answer to.
Somebody covered this in the comic where Andi made the babysitting comment, but it bears repeating, now that everybody knows Amanda is her daughter.
What Andi said that day was probably not meant as a snark about adoption. It was how SHE viewed adoption. IE somebody else was babysitting her daughter, AMANDA, until she got her life together enough to come back for her.
Which probably means that at some future point, Todd or no, Andi already was planning on re-entering Amanda’s life. Circumstances with Todd just accelerated the time frame.
This should probably be taken into consideration in any conversation in which that comment is brought up. It was a rude thoughtless comment, but also has some interesting connotations regarding what was going on in Andi’s head.
I agree with your assessment. It just shows how deluded / ignorant Andi was, to think that giving a kid up is a temporary thing that can be undone any time the parents are ready to take the kid back.
However, it does also make me wonder: If she thought it was not only a great solution but a temporary one, why didn’t THAT get shared with Todd? “I gave her up for adoption — just until we get our lives together — don’t worry, we can grab her back in a few years and just pick up where we left off.”
How is “She’s DEAD” an improvement over that?? “She’s dead, but oh, wait, look I found a kid in the street and she looks just like us can we keep her?” “She’s dead, but oh, wait, turns out she wasn’t dead just being held by other people for a while.” How did she imagine this conversation would go? Did she put any thought into it at all?
That was just Andi being selfish again. If she told Todd she doesn’t want the kid, it’s likely they would have broken up and Todd would claim Amanda instead. This would have been the perfect solution actually, for everyone but Andi, so of course she went with the one that made her have her way without regard for anyone else involved.
Well, deluded and/or ignorant, that’s still exactly what happened for better or worse. It looks like the orphanage did indeed end up babysitting Amanda for 8 years until Andi finally came and picked her back up. However, since that’s not usually how it works…
I’m fairly sure most adoption paperwork involving infants also involves clauses cutting the birth mother’s ties (and by extension, the father’s). A lot of parents who want infants want to pretend they’re their own child and/or don’t want a birth mother in the pic down the road creating drama.
Andi probably didn’t expect (assuming she thought that far ahead) to be able to enter Amanda’s life ’til she hit 18, all the babysitting was done, and she could legally track her down and “explain”.
So what you’re looking at is ‘she’s dead’ vs. 18 years of arguing over it ’til they could locate her assuming Todd didn’t leave her immediately over it.
Yep, it was a dick move but that’s the sort of thing Andi would indeed choose in order to avoid conflict….for 18 years. In that time frame, a lot of things could happen to make telling the truth more palatable, say like breaking up with Todd anyways.
You can bet that if Amanda had been adopted, not only would the orphanage not given Andi info on her whereabouts, but Todd still wouldn’t know he had a daughter. Having hit that brick wall, Andi would’ve just let it slide again. She excels at putting off the reckoning until it’s unavoidable which would’ve meant waiting until the adult Amanda started searching for her, more than likely.
Hear hear String Pop! She really doesn’t seem to be planning anything nor altering her behaviour to suit her needs, one of which would be pretty much required to be manipulative. I really really hate manipulative behaviour, but I don’t see it here. If anything Todd seems the manipulative(though unwittingly) one with his overt hostility to scare her off. He really treats her completely differently to how he treats everyone else.
She said “adoption is like babysitting” in reference to the prospect of her adopting a child. She wasn’t trying to make Todd angry, she was trying to explain that adoption made her feel horrible(entirely because she felt horrible about giving her own child up for adoption). That is the polar opposite of manipulation, that being telling something that will make them hostile towards you because you failed to account for their personal issues in order to publish your own issues. I really cannot fathom how that would be cited as behaviour indicating a manipulative nature. It is just baffling.
“I got my baby back now I want my family back” is not manipulative, it is wanting things. Insensitive, sure, but insensitive is at odds with manipulative. It is difficult to manipulate something if you are not aware of how to manipulate it. And Todd was sort of insensitive to not realise that Andi was being torn apart by a secret for eight years…
Andi only pushes the one button. It is giant and shiny and red and it says “Andi alert” and she presses it by entering Todd’s field of vision…
Andi is not toxic anymore. She was toxic because of her secret, that is gone now. Things are still awkward, but that is something that can change pretty quickly. There is not such thing as a “greatest betrayal” as there is always something greater. What she did was largely under duress and Todd is being kind of mean for failing to figure out and appreciate the specifics of why she did it. Such would, of course, be expecting a lot from Todd, but people seem to expect a lot from Andi too, so, whatever…
Andi’s claws have been permanently clipped already. She is basically harmless now. Their relationship became toxic because she was keeping a secret, that is gone. Todd is angry at her because she gave their child up for adoption and lied about it, that really really really very much is not going to ever happen again. Aside from those two things there is no indication of Andi being toxic in any way at all. Separation really is sort of silly at this point, not that they don;t have a lot of stuff to deal with first…
So she is manipulative because she adopted Amanda in order to get back with Todd because he adopted Selkie?!?
Adopting Amanda meant revealing Amanda, which was a serious blow to getting Todd, that connection is ridiculous. She was terrified to the point of literally fleeing over the prospect of Todd seeing Amanda. That a plan involving revealing Amanda would result in getting Todd was a thing that Andi considered is purely ridiculous. As for adopting Amanda after Hearing about the adoption of Selkie? There is a thing called inspiration. Selkie’s adoption revived a lot of old emotions and memories in Andi. Thinking of it as all some sort of elaborate scheme to accumulate Todd-magnets is kind of ridiculously absurd.
You can be an oblivious manipulator, yeah — you don’t have to realize that you’re instinctively choosing the best way to make the person do what you want, even when they strongly don’t want to. It’s a worrisome trait if you don’t even realize it, and I’m not sure it’s better than being a deliberate manipulator.
I think I mentioned my sister-in-law before. She has a huge sob story of a background, and I don’t know how much of what she’s said is real, because she is a chronic liar. Has to top every detail someone else comes up with with a detail of her own that’s worse. Has listed so many physical ailments and diseases over the years that she cannot possibly have all of them. Her lying got so bad that when she said she was pregnant and then said she lost the kid, for a while I wondered if she had even been lying about THAT. (Imagine the kind of reputation you’d have to have where people would believe you faked a PREGNANCY.)
I don’t doubt that she had a horrible background that led to her current “damaged goods” setup. She has serious emotional problems. She has been an abusive mother to my niece and nephew (bad enough to make us cringe but not bad enough to get the cops involved, you know?), including an incident wherein she said to my brother a sentence that my mom and I took to be a threat to kill the kids (it was relayed to us by the kids, and she later said she would never say anything like that, they must have misheard, but I trust their original version came out of her mouth).
One time while she was under a no-contact order and we had the kids, I discussed with the kids at some length what to do if their mom kidnapped them. Because it seemed there was a possibility she’d run off with them down to California or something. I think I had that discussion with them on another occasion, too. Imagine having to discuss THAT with the kids in your life (while they’re like 7 and 9 or something).
I feel for my sister-in-law. I’m glad she has some level of stability in her life now, and I hope and pray that having a half-decent husband and steady church attendance — and the support structure that comes from being affiliated with a decent church (they’re even friends with the pastor now) — will lead her toward a time when she is no longer a liar, when we don’t have to wonder if she’s on drugs, when she’s emotionally balanced and doesn’t feel the need to convince us she’s something that she’s not.
But when she was under that no-contact order — even with all the emotional stress it put her under, even with all her worries about the future and her inability to see a way for her to survive on her own, even when she felt like she was drowning and she needed to cling to her family to survive — she should’ve obeyed the law and just sat on her hands for a few weeks. Instead of calling incessantly at all hours of the night to sob over how she’d learned her lesson and would never do it again. (Even calling us ONCE was breaking the restraining order. She’s lucky my brother decided not to press that issue with a lawyer.)
Her actions put her firmly in the category of manipulator, and likely abuser (even if we hadn’t already known about her abuse of both her kids and my brother). I was even advising my brother (when he asked for my opinion) that divorce was the most sensible course of action at the time. I just couldn’t see how getting back together with her would be a good thing; it seemed more likely that her behavior would get worse and worse, maybe even eventually making good on that death threat.
I don’t see Andi as anywhere near as bad as my sister-in-law was back then, but at the same time I can’t help but see them as like each other. A person with a less-than-ideal upbringing and an unsupportive mother who made her dependent rather than capable of running her own life. A person who’s made some huge, HUGE mistakes, and yes deserves a chance to set her life straight… but shouldn’t get a pass just due to her upbringing. And where the other people in her life have rights, too.
If you’ve been told you’re not welcome in the family, and you respect the family’s right to make that decision, then you step back and wait to see if things change.
Heck, WE did that with my sister-in-law, when she was too nervous to let us have her kids overnight. Offered, let her decide, stepped back and said to ourselves, “Hey, things might be different in a year or two.” And it didn’t take even that long for things to change. Now, with the kids being 10 and 12, we just had them over for a good week each, and she didn’t even go to pieces over them not calling her every night (as she had a couple years ago).
So everyone going on and on about how Andi lied to Todd’s family I need a link to any point where she happily lied to them.
Todds family who werent there for her when she was upset about the pregnancy. Todd himself didnt even see whe was upset.
The only person who did was her mother and she was the one who pushed for her to give Amanda up and then lie about it.
Tell me how many 17 years olds can admit something they are ashamed of if they knew it would make people hate them?
Tell how fair it was that they pushed their own wishes on her with her pregnancy?
Then tell me its unfair for her to want to be with Amanda for Christmas? That is ok to cut her out of her child that she is now raising alone most important moments?
I know Andi is unloved though it sickens me and reminds me that most commentators can see outside of their own childhoods.
Not telling people you lied to about a death makes sense for someone with anxiety. Todd’s family should know how Andi is since they dated for like 10 years. Right now they are all letting their pain color everything and none of them are using their heads.
Right now my young cousin has to deal with her parents rasing a child she wasnt prepared to have and cant take care of. It is causing a lot of problems and my cousin is often left out of things while everyone focuses on her daughter. I can easily see this happening to Andi if Todd’s family took her in to raise. Thats not healthy and breeds resentment. I also want to remind everyone that Andi was trying to do the best for Amanda. She really thought she would end up in a good home like Todd did.
I think if they didnt give Andi proper instructions they deserve to get as surprised as she was. They want to be the better people? Then fucking act like it!
(Again my family was civil during the holidays even with my aunt who tried to kill my mother there.*She did a lot of other horrible things* If my dysfunctional hoard of a family could act like civil adults around their children I expect others to do the same. Otherwise you are pathetic children. No, children behave better.)
After she gave birth she gave up the baby without his consent. Said she died and gave him tree ashes in an urn. We never said happily. We said she did a disgusting lie and kept it up for eight years.
Also. You’re comment disgusts me. You’re literally acting like Todd and his family should bend over backwards for someone who couldn’t be bothered with telling the truth for eight years. Then suddenly takes Amanda back after Todd has adopted Selkie. Sounds suspicious yeah?
As somone who suffers from anxiety and suffered post pregnancy depression that had me full blown suicidal I can actually forgive Andi for her initial choice to lie. It’s the fact that she didn’t do anything to correct the lie till her comfort zone had literally left her. Andi is a person who takes the path of lest resistance that causes the least amount of emotional distress for her. She assumed she was invited because she never dwells on the negative. She is the kind of person who allows themselves to believe that the fake smiles are real and that thinks are fine in the moment. She needs help as much as Amanda however… I am of the belief that the victim of a wrong shouldn’t have right to anger and justice because the person who did the wrong had been wronged in the past. At some point you have to be made responsible for your actions and choices. Pretending everything is fine for the sake of a child is as much a harmful act towards Andi as it is for Todd. Andi can’t afford to spend time ignoreing the reality of her situation. Her avoidance and dissociation methods for dealing with stress are harmful to her and Amanda in the long run.
*clarification* I don’t believe a victim Should have the right to anger removed because aggressor was wronged in there past. Writing long post on mobile phones is a pain.
Yes. Thank. Are the Smiths’ angry and acting on that anger? Yes. If they had found out someone at the hospital or Andi’s mother was the one who had lied and Andi didn’t find out until recently – they probably would be acting differently towards Andi. But Andi didn’t just reluctantly lie. She also went so far as to let them pay for and grieve with a fake funeral. Gave them an urn with fake ashes. Which they kept on their mantle for 9 years. Was it an understandable act for a teenager with no support? Absolutely. Is Todd also at fault for a few mistakes such as not being more noticeable of Andi’s moods? Yes (although as someone who has been suicidal before, you can learn to paste a smile and get through it to fool family – and if he did notice, how easy would it be to take that path of least resistance and say “oh, just family” or “oh just my mom” or “oh just pregnant hormones” – and at 17 Todd wouldn’t have the experience yet to tell those types of lies from something bigger) But she didn’t come out the door first and say “for Amanda’s sake”. She came out and said “*I* have been with you for 9 years” Nothing about Amanda until after being shown that wouldn’t cut it.
Theo though… he was on the right track. He’s trying and he sees Andi is trying. Mari and Todd weren’t trying, but Theo spoke up about the whole thing. He’s using his head and acting like an adult.
It occurs to me that having Andi there for the holiday isn’t likely to be as disastrous as some people are predicting. Unremitting awfulness? That’s not Dave’s style. More like, awkward moments and funny bits, some glares, a few unexpected truths spoken, and in the end we’ll gain new insights into quite a few of the characters.
Think about who’ll be there. Theo, for one, as you say. Also, Marta will be there, and I bet we’ll get to meet her fiancé. (I can totally see Marta hitting it off with Amanda the way Selkie is with Andi.) Antoine struck me as a fairly irrepressible sort — not given to holding grudges, and quite equal to breaking any tension with a wisecrack.
Another thought: Antoine is a college freshman, and Marta just graduated. Eight years ago they were kids… maybe 10 and 13? The supposed death would have hit them differently from adults.
We’ll see. I say it’ll be okay. Not unicorns and rainbows wonderful, but… not so bad.
Considering the depth of the lie and the emotional pain that Todd went through along with the rest of them? Do you not know how bad the grieving process is and how much it hurts to be told that it was for nothing?
Especially how Andi pulled this off?!
Which characters are you talking about? Each of us grieves differently. I say this from personal experience – I was a child of about Marta’s age and my brother was a bit older than Antoine, when my younger brother died at the age of 6 after a year-long struggle with cancer. I saw what that sort of loss does to a family, right up close and personal.
I am pretty sure none of the Smiths, not even Todd, went through anything like that intensity of grief. I can tell you that though I loved my little brother, will remember him to the end of my days, and was horrified to my core at what he went through, what affected me most was the pain my parents endured.
Something like that… nobody ever gets to find out that, oops, it was all a mistake, a lie. I wish our family could have been blessed with such luck.
Loss of an infant? Him and his families BELIEVING Amanda was dead and getting an urn is nothing…I don’t know if you’ve noticed. But your comment is completely heartless. That isn’t luck. That’s manipulative pain and disgusting. Very disgusting.
Sessine didn’t say it was nothing. She did say that there are levels of grief. I’ve had several pregnancies that failed late in the process. I grieved, but not as much as I would have if I had had the chance to know those babies the way I did my children who lived.
Oh yes. Sooo good of Andi being a deceitful liar who gave them a fake dead body. It’s great. Awesome. So trustworthy.
If you call it disgusting, I don’t think you picked up what I meant. When a young child dies, as I discovered first-hand in my own life, so don’t try to tell me it’s not true, parents grieve far more intensely than siblings, or uncles and aunts, or grandparents. I was still a child myself. I did grieve — sixty years later my heart still aches when I remember that time — but compared to what I saw my parents suffer, my grief was tiny.
As for luck – yes, remembering my own experience, I would call the Smiths lucky. Most families who have to mourn a dead child don’t get to find out it wasn’t true.
But my topic was, how badly were Marta and Antoine hurt by Andi’s lie? For them, the “death” is almost half a lifetime ago. Marta would have been a probably-difficult teenager. They’d had no experience of babies, and Antoine at least was too young to have invested a whole lot of emotion in Amanda before she was born. What they will remember is, there was a baby on the way and then it didn’t arrive. There was a funeral. Their mom and dad were sad, and so was their older brother. More than that? Only if sorrow changed Mari and Theo’s parenting for the worse, and I don’t think that happened.
What I am saying is, neither of them is likely to be nursing a deep personal grudge against Andi. Their anger would be on Todd’s behalf: “You hurt my brother, that was a rotten thing to do,” rather than “You hurt me, I hate you.”
If Todd chooses to invite Andi to the Christmas celebration, I predict they’re going to respect his decision and try their best to make the day work.
Yeah watching their brother grieve is awesome for them. Very callous of you. I mean wow. They’ll be so so happy that a lie Andi maintained for eight years isn’t real! Sooo happy. Nah. Nah. They’d hate her. She did something disgusting and now she has to face the consequences of her actions.
Also Mari was just as angry as Todd when she found out about the betrayal that Andi did. Don’t you dare act like she wasn’t.
Eight years of “Oh she’s dead.” to Andi now going “Oh btw I was totes lying about Amanda being dead. I gave you guys plant ashes. So we still cool?”
You’re really gotta be kidding if you believe that would fly ever.
Come now, I’m not insulting you. No need to call me callous. I’m only trying to have a speculative discussion about how Marta and Antoine might react when they see Andi. I’ve given you reasons based on my own experience why I think that while yes, they’re probably angry, because of how young they were at the time they weren’t hurt as badly, so they’re not going to have the levels of fury to deal with that Todd or Mari do.
It’s fine if you disagree with me about the direction the story’s likely to take. I don”t mind. I’d like to hear what you think they will do.
Imagine the day. They arrive at the Christmas celebration, and here Todd has allowed Andi to come! Andi, whom they presumably haven’t seen since they heard about Amanda. Amanda’s right there, too. So is Selkie, and Marta’s fiancé. What do you think each of them does, based on what we’ve seen of the characters so far?
Will Antoine glare daggers at her? Will Marta spend the whole time yelling at her? Will the two of them forcibly eject her from their parents’ house? “And don’t come back!”
Hey, maybe. We’ll find out. Until we do, it’s fair game for all of us to guess, here in the comments.
Your right in that that probably weren’t hurt as bad as Todd or their parents, but it’s likely they will be furious BECUASE Todd was hurt. One or both of them will probably give her a ‘reasons you suck’ speech and demand that she keep her interaction with Todd to a minimum. Speaking of which, Marta is engaged, and Amanda will most likely be invited. Is Andi going to insist that she be included becuase this is another family event and it would mean so much to Amanda if both her father and mother were there…
Weddings are a different scene altogether. Parents don’t fight over who gets to have the kids for a wedding the way they do for holidays.
Also, one of the many straws before the ‘babysitting’ back-breaker was the fact that they hadn’t been on the same page for ANYTHING for quite some time leading up to that point. One of those things was marriage, which Andi wasn’t interested in for a reason I can’t exactly remember, but it was along the lines of ‘why bother’.
I’m forseeing very forced smiles and a discussion with Todd in private. Because I doubt either are going to know how to feel and would want to gauge Todd’s reaction. Marta and Antoine might be civil.
But I don’t see either being this and unafraid of calling Andi out on what pain she has caused. And the gross deed she did.
“How lucky Andi lied to us for eight years and only gave us tree ashes! That prankster! Hee hee. Oh of course it’s okay with us if she comes over. After all she’s still apart of a family she lied to for so long.”
Given that the emotional upheaval is the same, feels the same, affects them the same whether the source of the trauma is true or not, I’m pretty sure the ultimate effect is more like ripping out someone’s stitches and going “See! That wasn’t a real wound after all!”
Not from personal experience, but from plenty of reading, I have reached the very strong conclusion that uncertainty over a loved one’s fate is worse than knowing for sure they’re hurt or dead. And that’s because when you know their fate, you can deal with it in a natural way, and over time heal. People lose their loved ones, and time can make that pain into a different sort of pain, less sharp, or less often sharp.
But being told that your loved one was never really dead — and even worse, that they were in a situation that hurt them, that left them with long-term psychological trauma, a situation you could have spared them, a situation you didn’t know about and therefore couldn’t do anything about — that is taking the existing pain and compounding it with horror and if-onlys.
Imagine learning that the kid you thought was dead was actually being tortured in the basement these past eight years. You lived right over her. If only you had heard, or paid attention, if only you had one time went down to check the basement, if only this, if only that — you could have spared her all that pain.
That’s not an improvement over “that girl who died during childbirth is still dead.” Even if you do now have a child to enjoy.
She wasn’t tortured for eight years, she spent at least a few years in the orphanage living a somewhat sane existence. We also don;t know the extent of her abuse. Her brothers did something. Was it a couple of weeks of name-calling? A few months of being constantly pushed to the ground whenever she was in someone’s way, punched a bit when they were playing games, and constantly teased and bullied? Did she have brothers who were a dozen years older than her and kept her locked in a closet until they wanted something to take their frustrations out on? We will probably never know. But really, having “an infant died” replaced with “we have a child who had some horrible things happen to them but we can try to fix it” sounds like a pretty excellent day. It is not as good as “we had this child to raise from an infant for the past few years and it is mostly okay even though we didn’t really have the means to raise it as we would have wanted to” but as far as experiencing good or bad things is concerned, it is pretty clearly an improvement in your status from what it was the day before.
As for telling the lie in the first place? Yes, that was a bad thing, it sort of negates all the good of finding out that it wasn’t true and you have a chance to make up for what went wrong. Although Andi’s keeping it a secret is very similar to abuse victims keeping secrets. It wasn’t done out of greed, it was done out of fear. If you are unsympathetic towards secrets kept our of fear then I can’t help but fear that you might be unwittingly imposing upon abuse victims to maintain the secrecy of the abuse…
I think it’ll be awkward for certain and Mari is going to believe Andi lied and manipulated her way into the house, but I think Theo will keep things under control and possibly Andi’s abusive mother will come to light and maybe they’ll forgive Andi a bit.
“We forgive you for the initial lie and we’re sorry for the emotional and mental abuse you suffered and that we never noticed your feelings, but that doesn’t excuse what you’ve done. You should have told us you were hurting and told us about Amanda. In time, we can learn to forgive you, if you keep making an earnest effort, but please understand our lack of enthusiasm and less than stellar feelings about your presence in the mean time.”
Or something similar.
Um, being Adult doesn’t mean suppressing every less then happy emotion you have. I’m sorry for your family’s dysfunction, but that’s exactly why that notion is bad. Not being civil to your attempted killer doesn’t make one more adult and mature.
I can see where you’re coming from since I am absolutely for body autonomy of the mother, and this situation was beyond tricky from the start. I can agree that Todd needs to answer to the lack of understanding when they were teens and she was pregnant, but Andi should still answer for going behind his back. There were options at every corner, but in her fear she took the pregnancy to full term. I can sympathize with that. Still, even at that point there were options, like letting Todd’s family have custody of the baby since they wanted her and were equipped to help raise her. One big issue is before she even decided she was ready to get Amanda, she and Todd had broken up for something unrelated to Amanda. Now she’s in the territory of being a single mom. She needs to let Amanda have some more time with Todd and his family without her so that her daughter can see they are good people who aren’t being mean to her mom for no reason. This one time may not be so bad, but if neither side talks and there is a distinct lack of amicable agreements that let her stay, it should be the last time. Because as time goes on and Amanda heals and becomes more emotionally strong and stable, she won’t need to stick around Todd’s family for her daughter’s sake.
You think they deserve to be surprised and need to act like better fucking people. That seems to be your point. Hmm…I do not want to come off like a troll so I am going to endeavor to be polite considering I have been in Todd’s shoes so this is a sticking point. You frankly seem to be seeing things only from Andi’s point of view.
Andi lied for 8 years. Maybe not happily, but she LIED FOR 8 YEARS! That is beyond anxiety. I have anxiety issues and I would never leave people to grieve over an urn full of tree ashes for 8 years. There comes a time where that’s sociopathic. Todd may be oblivious, but that does not excuse ripping his heart out. That does not excuse revealing the truth and then touching him to try and get him to act romantic again. This is stuff Andi did thinking she could get away with her actions. Andi is entitled to nothing, she is not entitled to family, she is not entitled to Todd. Hell, she’s not entitled to Christmas, he’s just in a bad situation. It is not bad to cut her out except for when dealing with Amanda.
It is not more adult to put up with someone that you just shouldn’t trust. In fact, it is a point of weakness to tolerate people that are toxic in my eyes. If someone tries to kill you, you should not act like everything is hunky dory for the kids. No, you excise that person no matter how close they were to you. If my family was dysfunctional, I would refuse to have anything to do with them. That’s why me and my father never talked as adults. He hurt my mom more times than anyone should hurt another person and I was not going to put her in a situation where she might have to deal with him. That does not make me worse than a child, that is one of the dumbest things I ever heard. “Hey, see these people that hurt your family? Yeah, you’re not an adult unless you tolerate them with a happy face for kids.” Lost my cool there, but it is a hot button topic. Long story short, if someone is bad news, you do not owe it to anyone to pretend that it is otherwise. Not even children who might think a bad situation is normal if you pretend it is normal.
It would be sociopathic if she lied for eight years and didn’t care.
Andi lied for eight years and it destroyed her relationship.
There is a difference.
Being mentally incapable of saying something for eight years? That is exactly what anxiety is. Anxiety is chronic, terrifying, and paralysing.
There is no such thing as adult in this world. If there was, it would be to understand things before acting upon them. If someone is dangerous, but you know that they are not dangerous at a specific time, then associating with them is good. It is worth being a little more wary in order to keep children sane. It is not a good idea to be murdered in front of children, that will not help them. Understanding tells us that Andi’s situation was horrible, and at no point was it practical for her to stop lying. It would have been better if she had, but she was in no condition to consider that Todd’s family could have cared for the child, nor do we know for certain that they could have done so, presumably they would have adopted an additional child if they felt up to it… all that Andi reasonably knew was that her mother was telling her that she couldn;t take care of the baby and she should send it to someone who could, and she was scared(much as most anyone else would have been) that she might not be able to care for the baby and hopeful that if she sent it away it would be cared for. Then Todd turns up late(almost entirely not his fault, but that doesn’t affect the outcome) and the baby is gone, Andi could tell the truth, which she is almost certainly convinced that the baby is lost to the system and she will never see it again so she can tell him that it practically doesn’t exist because she gave it away and who-knows-what happens and he will always worry what happened to it or she can say that it is gone forever and the whole business is done with. Obviously the scenario in which she did all that she could to keep it is the most favourable one for her, and that may well have been motive enough to push her out of the honesty zone, but given her condition, it really is entirely understandable that she went with the choice that she did.
Once Andi made that choice, eight years of crying and screaming to herself over something that she couldn’t tell anyone about was all but inevitable.
There really isn;t such a thing as a villain in this world, you will find that everyone believes that they are doing the right thing, and that everyone is wrong about something…
well played Andi, well played.
Amanda will still be with her family, Todd’s side of the family. Kid has got to learn there is always going to be a divide her parents.
Actually, I’m waiting for the inevitable train wreck when the Smiths ring up Andi’s mother and invite HER over for Christmas dinner. Wouldn’t you like to be a fly on the wall for that confrontation?
Ooh… I wonder if anyone would get the idea to do this? After all, if Amanda deserves her mother there, doesn’t she equally deserve all her grandparents?
Oh Jeez. Has Andi’s Mum even seen Amanda yet? I have a feeling the encounter those two are going to have is heartbreaking in the extreme.
She made herself quite clear about not wanting anything to do with her. I don’t think she’s even seen Andi since she went against her wishes.
Yeah this is going to be a trainwreck, but honestly I think it may well have been a mess regardless so great, let’s all just hop aboard the catastrophe express.
Oh yeah. This is going to end terribly for everyone involved.
Can’t wait.