So Kenneth doesn’t know about the betrayal of trust by Heather or is ignoring it. He REALLY needs to get more of the story before he starts making such a big deal about it. Barbara had the right idea before, even if her language was straight out of a How To Parent book. And to make this situation even more delightful, Kenneth’s expression looks like he’s just going to use this as “proof” that there’s something wrong with Amanda, nevermind how his own actions led to this little debacle.
The servers have royally dropped the ball. If a kid’s chugging wine, maybe make a bigger deal about it than just stand there and flap your arms and squawk? I thought they were running around the table on Friday to stop her, but it looks like Amanda’s still just being told not to drink the “juice”.
I think at least one of them is physically standing between her and the “juice”. They’re not letting her have any more… but, too late. She has already had quite enough!
Hitting is wrong and should not be encouraged, but to call it assault? Yes I know that since she is a child is not a legitimate excuse but there is underreacting and there is overreacting. Or are we all forgetting how Tank’s father overreacted to his child’s issues and look where that led.
“Funny” (quotes because it’s not “ha-ha” funny & is more “eeeeh, weird” funny) thing: while what Amanda did was technically assault, the battery aspect of it is a much worse “offense” (she’s not getting charged/in court, hence my use of quotes with offense). It’s real easy to assault someone (per the penal code, anyway). You raise your hand like you’re going to hit someone, but don’t even make the forward motion of the punch: assault. You tell someone you’re going to do some unwanted physical thing to them, but never act on it: assault. Assault is “funny” in that it’s really only the implication of harming (or inference, as that’s needed too). “Fighting words” are assault (even have their own sub section in the code). It’s also possible to have battery without assault (assault requires someone to witness it, battery is any physical contact/anything resulting in a physical effect on the vic)
Tank had multiple counts of assault, battery, agrivated assault, premeditated assault (actually not sure if that’s a thing, but burglary is, and the long & short of burglary is: go somewhere with the intent of doing bad stuff [I forget if it has to be felony level bad, or if just misdemeanors count too]) and he ultimately got off with therapy & his dad being a better person in general (or at least paying better attention to what’s happening around him)
I mean, “where that led” was Tank getting professional help for his anger issues (when you’re bigger you need to have that stuff in check, otherwise you can seriously hurt others) his dad (don’t know about mom) being aware of said issues & trying to work with tank through them, and tank apologizing to Selkie and hopefully becoming a better person (yes, child, still developing/figuring out who they are, but beating on smaller really shouldn’t ever be your go-to life philosophy)
Anyway, rant over, Amabda’s had enough, I’m cutting her off.
Which is why I refer to it as “betrayal of trust.” In Amanda’s mind this was a BIG DEAL betrayal and she lashed out. She’s a kid, she’s allowed to still be working out how to deal with her emotions. She’s not allowed to just run around hitting people with no consequences. Kenneth needs to discuss what those consequences need to be, but accusing Amanda of assault is too much.
Well crud. With Lillian there as a former guardian would she have the power to take Amanda away from Andi in a situation like this? I hope not but as a state employee she might be obligated to and she did “interrogate” Andi as well as warn her when seeing if she would be a capable parent.
Pff, no. Lillian isn’t stupid. Even as a state employee, she isn’t OBLIGATED to be stupid. She is well aware of Amanda’s “issues” and is in Andi’s corner. She knows full well that while there are bound to be rocks along the way, Andi is Amanda’s best, perhaps only, chance at recovery.
Not concerned one bit about Lillian. Kids have accidents. Lillian getting upset over Amanda accidentally drinking wine would be like her getting upset if Amanda tripped and skinned her knee. Its all about how Andi deals with the result of that accident is what might upset Lillian.
Oh, man. Angry + Drunk = Zero verbal brakes. Amanda’s about to say some really hurtful things to everyone around her. Particularly Todd, probably Selkie, maybe Heather, but I don’t think Andi’s going to be spared either.
I can’t even joke about popcorn. This is just a train wreck. 🙁
I was thinking that as well. Sometimes to heal you have to say mean things. It’s like removing a bandage, it stings but it must be done. Amanda’s soon to be drunken tirade may be what everyone needs.
Though for my own entertainment, I like to imagine she points to Heather, Todd, Andi, and Selkie in that order and shout “You suck! And you suck! And you suck! You’re all right.”
That wasn´t what I had in mind – more like it´ll make it clear to everyone (particularly Todd and Andi) how utterly messed-up Amanda is. And this, in turn, will lead to both Amanda getting the help she needs, and Selkie and the others no longer being Amanda´s punching-balls.
I just don’t think she’ll stop at saying the most immediate “this is what’s causing my pain” bits. I think she’s going to go on about far more. Which, like you said, I’m thinking will lead to her getting the help she needs.
Starting to think: what if Andi verbally tears these two a new one for this? Showing that even if she’s still a new mom, she’s not incompetent. That yes there are gaps in her knowledge, and she still has a lot to learn, but even a ‘perfect parent’ screws up because the way I see it, you can get everything right and teach your kid everything, but that doesn’t mean they won’t mess up.
PERFECT PARENTS DON’T EXIST IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO DO EVERYTHING WITHOUT YOU OUR YOUR KIDS MESSING UP.
This is my OPINION. Don’t tear it down just because you don’t agree with me.
you take a class for all that defense?
i don’t think anyone’ll disagree with you. humans (and aquatic humanoids) are inherently flawed creatures.. it’s impossible for anyone to be perfect, let alone a perfect parent. If you aren’t messing up, you aren’t doing parenting right. Kids learn from mistakes, especially from their elders. It’s the drive behind an advanced & evolving society.
-___- Hardy-har-har. How about most of the time when I speak my mind, be it online or IRL, I get shit for it? Next time I’ll keep my mouth shut like usual.
But that is pretty much my exact point. You gotta let a kid be a kid so they learn for themselves what not to do. If you tell them no you can’t do it and give them no reason not to, they’ll still do it and only get in trouble for doing it. But if you let them go on their own a bit and let them learn on their own without telling them no and punishing them blindly, that’s honestly a great way to parent. Maybe not the best way, but it is a way my parents used and it worked out fine for us.
I agree telling a kid no with no reasoning and then simply punishing them when they did it is no way to parent. But not telling them no isn’t always a great way to parent either.
Instead, tell them no, tell them the why of the no, and expose them to appropriate consequences if they disregard the no. If they are the kind of kid who rebels at “no”, skip the “no”, and instead use “if you do ___, then ___ will happen”.
I don’t think Andi has the guts to do it. Maybe after a while, but it’s still too early for Andi to put on her big girl pants and do it. Things take stages to get to. She might try to interject, but she isn’t going to get assertive and get their attention.
You underestimate the power of a pissed-off mom, no matter how new it is to them. My mom never let being a new mom keep her from telling someone off for saying something or doing something derogatory, because comments from other people about your kids can be indirect insults towards how you parent. My mom never took those sitting down.
Maybe it’ll take Andi a while to get into the swing of that, but eventually she won’t stand for sh*t when it comes to her daughter, especially when someone like Kenneth is calling Amanda a bad kid without knowing the entire story behind what she’s been through. For now though Todd could step up and tell them off like he did to the principal when Selkie was having troubles in school. He didn’t take sh*t with her, he’d do the same for Amanda too.
I have absolutely no idea where Dave is going to take this but any of the above suggestions are awesome! Maybe he’s got it in his head to even combine some of the ones already mentioned plus add new stuff! Ya never know:)
And this is not a place for attacks. We’s friendlys here:) Nope. No parent is perfect. In fact, I have purposefully let my daughter try something on her own, knowing she would not get it right, just so that she knows it’s okay to fail, to overcome, and then ya get that great sense of accomplishment:) Not for things dumb like burning your hand on the stove. I mean more like how to tie a knot the wrong way or skating down the driveway super fast for the first time and not sure if she can stop. I need to see her test her limits, but I’m always right there for her, every time:) That’s part of being a good parent. Not perfect. Just the best I can try to be:)
No, I pretty much have seen first hand the fury of a mother’s rage. My mother tried throwing a man out of a car with one hand and damn near succeeded when he threatened me as a kid. Why one hand? She was driving at the time. I have seen what can happen when a mother goes mother bear on someone.
But while she’s doing all right so far, I have seen Andi crumble under pressure so far. I look back at her shrinking into the crowd while Amanda is screaming for her help and I just don’t think Andi has been assertive enough in life to let the rage out when needed and protect her kid. Given time, I could say yes. But until then, I have seen her in a situation where she needs to stand up, and she crumbled. So I will remain skeptical about her courage.
Andi’s been doing a pretty good job as a mom so far, whatever else you say about her. But if takes it out the serving staff ? I’m going to lose all respect for her.
Wait staff and serving staff have a thankless, sh*tty job. All it takes is one second looking away to serve someone else, and Amanda can run off with a couple of glasses. At that point, they’re pretty much screwed. I don’t know what these guys’ training was like, but when I worked service we were always instructed NEVER to touch a child, no matter what, unless, perhaps, the child was in imminent danger of death. Reason being, one of our staff once grabbed a child to prevent injury and the parents not only made a huge fuss, but tried to press charges for assault.
So yeah, you’re damned if you do, damned if you don’t. Damned if you grab a child’s hand to stop her from reaching for something, damned if you don’t and she gets into something she’s not supposed to. It’s a thankless job where everyone thinks that just because you’re a lowly nobody they can treat you like dirt.
I…. Forsee Andi loosing custody of Amanda, at least temporarily, thanks to this little stunt, and her being sent to Todd, thuss ensuring more Amanda/Selkie interplay. Wonder exactly how Selkie is going to react to having to share her room.
I don’t understand. Why are so many people leaping to the conclusion that some mindless officialdom is going to blame Andi for this?
Both of Amanda’s parents are in the room. If Andi took her eyes off Amanda for fifteen seconds… well, so did Todd.
Moreover, one does not normally expect to have to watch an eight year old that closely! For instance, no adult happens to be paying attention to Selkie at the moment, and that seems perfectly reasonable, doesn’t it?
By the way, good for you, Heather! Though I suppose you really didn’t want the dads to linger on that particular topic, did you?
Except Todd’s not on the birth certificate. So he won’t get any blame. I’m with you mind you. I don’t think Amanda will get taken away. However, I do believe that Lillian will scold her and chew her out.
Todd however will not get any flack from this by anyone as officially he is not responsible. And if a government official tries, I’ll wonder whatever happened to his parental rights.
All that aside, I foresee Miss Lillian clearly seeing what’s going on and maybe even being okay with it, as a chance for Amanda to let loose to “begin the healing process”, or even just to get in trouble and have her parents as a team decide how to sort out the punishment, because that’s part of being a family. Something like that? She’s literally staring right at them, watching the whole thing, and she is a smart cookie:)
Maybe she isn’t close enough to have overheard what Todd has been saying. But I get the feeling Kenneth isn’t keeping his voice down, and, as JG says, Lillian is a smart cookie. Other than that part (which she may pick up on very quickly right now), she knows nearly as much about Amanda as we the readers do.
Also, I spy Giselle noticing from across the room. Not that it’s a surprised for someone to notice someone else yelling … I think Giselle might end up involving herself in the upcoming whatever-happens, or at least comment on it afterwards. Maybe try to hold it over Amanda’s head if the two of them end up in conflict at school, only to have it pointed out that half the class (and therefore also the teacher) know what happened so it’s no good as blackmail?
On one hand I hope Andi tears the two basement dwellers at the wine stand a new one and on the other, I hope Lilian doesn’t notice the drunk eight year old and go whelp, ya dun fudged up. State workers ARE OBLIGATED to report crap like that even if they don’t want to >> They’re mandated reporters.
A report does not necessarily mean the kid gets taken away though. It just means the situation has to be looked in to. Usually, the kid ends up taken away, in our world.
I know everyone’s debating the Potential of Psychological Damage and the fact that Kenneth’s kind of being a dink (Really this should be discussed in a PRIVATE LOCATION Ken ol’ bean, Justified or not) I’m just sitting here and wondering when in God’s Green Earth did someone pass Alcohol to the Small Child?!
With all the “juice” that Amanda’s chugged, she’s likely to create some “modern art” of her own … all over the floor, all over the table, all over the wall, all over herself, all over anyone who comes near her …
Ouch from the last page, Amanda’s on her third or fourth cup of ‘juice’. She is going to be gloriously drunk with a heckuva hangover. Yeah this train wreck is will be brought to everyone’s attention with a temper tantrum from hell.
And it´s not just suicides. I´m not going into details about my experiences in school, but let´s just say that if gun availability here in Germany had been what it is in the US, I might have made something very regrettable happen.
On second thought, and keeping the above in mind, Heather´s prank was not the typical “hurtful prank”, in that it didn´t aim to humiliate Selkie, as such, or make Heather feel superior or powerful, but essentially an (*extremely* misguided) attempt on her part to make up to Amanda for “ditching” her.
Heather was acting stupid, or at least impulsive and foolish, whereas Amanda was vindictive, cruel and self-absorbed.
This is true. I’m just saying if her father thinks, ‘hurtful pranks’ are at best, just that, he’s mistaken in a big way. Often times mental and emotional abuse is far more damaging than physical abuse. I’d wager that those are higher up in suicide numbers than kids who’ve suffered physical abuse are.
I acknowledge your point. However, the crucial difference in the motivation and the mindset of the two girls – Heather quickly realized both that she´d done something wrong and that Amanda isn´t worth doing crap like that, whereas Amanda still cannot understand how anything she´s done could possibly be wrong, and thinks that everyone except her mom and Lillian is stupid and out to hurt her.
For Amanda, everything exists and has to happen for her own sake; sure, she´s only 8 years old, but every other kid in the comic except maybe Truck has shown at least some empathy towards others, (and even Truck cares enough for his dad to try and make him proud in an utterly wrong way) only Amanda has not.
Amanda has been mentally, emotionally and physically abused and adults have utterly failed her in her eyes, many, many times. The only adult that hasn’t failed her is Andi. Even Lillian has failed her. And honestly? I don’t know how or why she’s seemingly forgiven Andi for giving her up at first. It’s very un-Amanda like. But to Amanda, every adult has failed her so she acts mistrust full and aggressive in order to protect herself. It’s not an excuse, but it’s very much an explanation. Even so, why listen to adults and behave as they say when they’ve never helped her and have failed her at every turn? For Amanda it’s survival, not necessarily malevolence, but there’s a fair amount of jealousy involved as well. She’s not trying to be evil and cruel, it’s just all she knows.
Also, Kenneth is doing a bit of his own fair share of excuses. He’s trying to excuse Heather’s behavior when really, Amanda had a much better excuse for what she did. She was hurt, betrayed and acting out of anger and raw emotions. Heather also was feeling very cornered, but she still resorted to harming someone who wasn’t invovled. Amanda took her anger out directly on the person who caused her pain.
He can’t excuse Heather’s betrayal of Amanda’s trust. Amanda told her something very personal and Heather told her biggest enemy. And just as Andi has no idea what Amanda did, Kenneth likewise has no idea what Heather did. The difference here is Heather is intentionally keeping that a secret. Whether or not because she knows she was wrong or she’s excluding it because she thinks shehes right and doesn’t matter remains to be seen. Amanda’s isn’t keeping it from Andi, it happened BEFORE Andi was in her life. Amanda hadn’t brought it up because she’s had no reason to, she’s not informed Andi of the incident at all, whereas Heather talks about it at length with her parents and chooses to leave out the bit that makes her look bad. And I’m sure ONE of them has asked, “Well why did she hit you/Why were you two fighting?” and her response was something along the lines of, “Amanda is just mean and crazy.” and completely left out the, “I betrayed my best friend’s trust.” entirely.
I wonder if she’s clinging to Andi… Hm. Lemme talk this out a bit. (I’m sick and the words are all tangly anyway. Blah.)
1: Andi is HER MOTHER COME BACK. Her mother realized she had made a TERRIBLE MISTAKE and CAME BACK to RESCUE Amanda. This fits into a narrative. (Akin to the teenager not-actually-suicidal “I will DIE and everyone will be SORRY and they will all be SO SAD” fantasy, I suspect.)
2: Amanda has been on not-so-good behavior with Andi and not once has Andi threatened to take her back to the orphanage, or hit her, etc. (I suspect Amanda’s bad behavior will escalate intermittently to test that Andi really really isn’t going to become Horrible or throw her away again.)
3: Amanda is well aware of at least #2, if probably not why Amanda herself is being such a pill. Andi is trying. Andi has given up her bed to Amanda, so Amanda can have her Own Room. Andi picks her up from school. Andi gets her Stuff. Andi keeps her from throwing up. 🙂 This ties into #1 in some ways: it fits the narrative of “she realized her mistake and is sorry and WANTS ME.”
So in this case… Andi is trying to make it up to her. Amanda sees that. It fits a narrative that Amanda almost certainly wants to believe (even as her cynical side might want to reject it).
Eventually the anger about being given up will probably surface. It could take years of in-comic time (if not years of real time… ;), or it could show up in in-comic months, weeks, days, or the next few minutes. My wager would be that it will only surface when Amanda feels really sure that Andi is not going to give her up, or hurt her, no matter what. When it’s safe to be really angry at someone, because you know that even if they’re not liking you, they’ll still love you.
But, to be fair, Selkie is Amanda’s biggest enemy inside Amanda’s head, only. The rest of the time? Unless Amanda is actively engaged in winding Selkie up, Selkie generally couldn’t give two hoots about her. Amanda is the one that’s looking, constantly, for ways to hurt Selkie, and is actively invested in causing her pain whenever the opportunity arises. She has an actual vendetta for something that isn’t Selkie’s fault.
If anything, to be perfectly frank, Heather’s actions were also harmful to SELKIE, because it’s, once again, given Amanda something more to victimise and bully her with. The fact that she waited to hit Heather, rather than going after her habitual scapegoat might even be considered progress…
In fact, I think at least in part Kenneth is upset that, while he punished his kid for a hurtful prank she played on Todd´s kid, Todd does not appear to have punished his own kid for assaulting Ken´s kid. Like “I know it´s wrong when my kid does it. Do you know it´s wrong when your kid does it?”
Andi needs to step up on that right now. She’s the one that must drop the hammer and get things done. Todd can’t at this point. He can speak on her behalf, explain things sure, but right now he can’t actually oversee her punishments. It’s all on Andi.
What Andi NEEDS to do right now is get Amanda away from that wine and out of the public eye. Pronto. If there’s a back room in the gallery they could use that, otherwise they should just leave. You don’t drop punishments for old offenses on an accidentally drunk eight year old. That’s idiotic. You sequester them someplace where they can settle down and sleep it off. Time enough to talk about other things AFTER you’ve dealt with the immediate crisis.
I expect that is what’s going to happen eventually. But there are too many people acting at cross purposes here. I don’t believe anything can happen fast enough to avoid some socially awkward revelations.
I don’t mean this second. I realized that’s what it looked like after I hit post. I meant right now in the general sense of at this point forward.
Right at this second, Andi needs to tell Todd to go get a burger and fries for Amanda, try to lessen some of the damage of the alcohol while getting some water into Amanda. Part of being a parent is to delegate things upon others and while Todd isn’t on the birth certificate he is still interested in being her father so he should lend a hand.
Sorry for the confusion, my error there. No, Andi doesn’t need to punish Amanda right this second over old offenses, or silly mistakes like the alcohol. But at this point on, she needs to be more willing to drop the hammer when Amanda does something wrong. Set boundaries and parent, which sometimes sucks, but must be done. At this second, she needs to prevent the situation from getting worse, get Amanda away from the situation, and slow down or stop the threat of a hangover.
Course not. Ken doesn’t know what Amanda has done to Selkie. He’s got no idea. Right now though, he’s insinuating that harmless pranks aren’t anything to worry about, when in reality those so called harmless pranks can be the worst of all.
Amanda’s actions can at the very least be explained. She needs guidance and someone who won’t give up on her and just call her a bad seed.
But what I’m saying is Ken is making excuses for Heather and blatantly writing off HER terrible behavior as somehow miniscule compared to Amanda’s bad behavior.
I’d think a kid would be far more traumatized by their shirt being stolen, made to walk around naked in front of her peers, made fun of and laughed at for it by said peers and then made to sit nude in an office while knowing everyone else knew what happened than being called a mean name all the time.
I mean, really, aside from Amanda being generally nasty to Selkie, calling her a monster or a fish or just being flat out rude to her, she’s never assaulted Selkie or stolen her clothes from her. The mental abuse she does is pretty damn terrible and stressful, for certain, because that can be very damaging to Selkie and it’s really messed up to do.
She’s just really mean to Selkie, but at least she’s never attacked her. I mean, Amanda is prone to getting into fights so I’m glad she’s never attacked Selkie. I think really, the worst thing she’s done is convince that new boy Selkie was a monster they fed the bad kids to. That was pretty messed up on a few levels and clearly hurt Selkie.
Heather didn’t realize how bad what she was doing is, in her mind it was just a harmless prank – she didn’t do it to hurt and traumatize Selkie but to impress her friends.
On the other hand Amanda is being mean and hurtful to people on purpose, and her hitting heater was intended to hurt her as punishment for what she sees as a betrayal.
So yes even though the consequences of both actions can be seen as similar, the difference is that Heather was just being stupid, Amanda was acting out of malice.
I may be misunderstanding you, but it actually does sound like you’re saying that Heather’s prank was more hurtful than Amanda’s constant bullying. I apologize if I’m misunderstanding you, but that’s how it’s coming across.
That said, I don’t think Heather would have done what she didn’t if Amanda hadn’t already created a hostile environment towards Selkie. Amanda took every opportunity to alienate Selkie from the rest of the class, and telling the new kid that she was a monster was just an extention of that. Selkie became, for better or worse, as a “deserving target.”
Further, I strongly disagree with minimizing Amanda’s actions because they were “only words.” Just as emotional abuse can be more painful than physical abuse, emotional bullying can be far worse than physical bullying.
With physical bullying (and abuse), you can show people the bruises, and suddenly everyone’s rallying to help you. With emotional bullying, people don’t take it seriously and expect you to get over it.
Thing is, systematic bullying and denigration of that sort, being constantly put down for years, leaves scars that don’t go away even when you’re an adult. You struggle with a lifetime of anxiety, depression, suicidal thoughts, the whole gamut. Words are a *huge* deal.
And finally, Amanda’s constant picking on Selkie’s appearance is completely unacceptable. If she made fun of a black child for their complexion, or an Asian child for their features, no one would ever let her get away with it. I get that other people don’t realize Selkie’s a different race, that they think it’s some sort of illness. But again, if Amanda were making fun of a child with Down’s Syndrome or blindness, I doubt people would be so quick to excuse her.
That’s not only on Amanda though. I’m completely appalled (but unsurprised) that the adults in the situation have done little to nothing to protect Selkie from this. The only consequence Amanda’s ever experienced is just a mild request not to do that anymore.
I’m just glad Sellkie’s so incredibly resilient emotionally.
Is Kenneth being obtuse on purpose? That wasn’t a prank. That was intentional theft and a huge blow on Selkie’s self esteem. For cripes sake she has done just as bad of things as Amanda.
To no one’s surprise, Amanda turns out to be a mean drunk.
Seems more grumpy than mean. She’s also a grumpy (and sometimes mean) sober.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHQl_vw8gFE
Am I the only one who thought about Dr. Cox’s drunk baby rant?
So Kenneth doesn’t know about the betrayal of trust by Heather or is ignoring it. He REALLY needs to get more of the story before he starts making such a big deal about it. Barbara had the right idea before, even if her language was straight out of a How To Parent book. And to make this situation even more delightful, Kenneth’s expression looks like he’s just going to use this as “proof” that there’s something wrong with Amanda, nevermind how his own actions led to this little debacle.
The servers have royally dropped the ball. If a kid’s chugging wine, maybe make a bigger deal about it than just stand there and flap your arms and squawk? I thought they were running around the table on Friday to stop her, but it looks like Amanda’s still just being told not to drink the “juice”.
I think at least one of them is physically standing between her and the “juice”. They’re not letting her have any more… but, too late. She has already had quite enough!
“told a secret” is still not an excuse to hit someone.
Hitting is wrong and should not be encouraged, but to call it assault? Yes I know that since she is a child is not a legitimate excuse but there is underreacting and there is overreacting. Or are we all forgetting how Tank’s father overreacted to his child’s issues and look where that led.
Generally, children under the age of 14 are not charged with assault.
“Funny” (quotes because it’s not “ha-ha” funny & is more “eeeeh, weird” funny) thing: while what Amanda did was technically assault, the battery aspect of it is a much worse “offense” (she’s not getting charged/in court, hence my use of quotes with offense). It’s real easy to assault someone (per the penal code, anyway). You raise your hand like you’re going to hit someone, but don’t even make the forward motion of the punch: assault. You tell someone you’re going to do some unwanted physical thing to them, but never act on it: assault. Assault is “funny” in that it’s really only the implication of harming (or inference, as that’s needed too). “Fighting words” are assault (even have their own sub section in the code). It’s also possible to have battery without assault (assault requires someone to witness it, battery is any physical contact/anything resulting in a physical effect on the vic)
Tank had multiple counts of assault, battery, agrivated assault, premeditated assault (actually not sure if that’s a thing, but burglary is, and the long & short of burglary is: go somewhere with the intent of doing bad stuff [I forget if it has to be felony level bad, or if just misdemeanors count too]) and he ultimately got off with therapy & his dad being a better person in general (or at least paying better attention to what’s happening around him)
I mean, “where that led” was Tank getting professional help for his anger issues (when you’re bigger you need to have that stuff in check, otherwise you can seriously hurt others) his dad (don’t know about mom) being aware of said issues & trying to work with tank through them, and tank apologizing to Selkie and hopefully becoming a better person (yes, child, still developing/figuring out who they are, but beating on smaller really shouldn’t ever be your go-to life philosophy)
Anyway, rant over, Amabda’s had enough, I’m cutting her off.
Which is why I refer to it as “betrayal of trust.” In Amanda’s mind this was a BIG DEAL betrayal and she lashed out. She’s a kid, she’s allowed to still be working out how to deal with her emotions. She’s not allowed to just run around hitting people with no consequences. Kenneth needs to discuss what those consequences need to be, but accusing Amanda of assault is too much.
Well crud. With Lillian there as a former guardian would she have the power to take Amanda away from Andi in a situation like this? I hope not but as a state employee she might be obligated to and she did “interrogate” Andi as well as warn her when seeing if she would be a capable parent.
Pff, no. Lillian isn’t stupid. Even as a state employee, she isn’t OBLIGATED to be stupid. She is well aware of Amanda’s “issues” and is in Andi’s corner. She knows full well that while there are bound to be rocks along the way, Andi is Amanda’s best, perhaps only, chance at recovery.
Not concerned one bit about Lillian. Kids have accidents. Lillian getting upset over Amanda accidentally drinking wine would be like her getting upset if Amanda tripped and skinned her knee. Its all about how Andi deals with the result of that accident is what might upset Lillian.
Oh, man. Angry + Drunk = Zero verbal brakes. Amanda’s about to say some really hurtful things to everyone around her. Particularly Todd, probably Selkie, maybe Heather, but I don’t think Andi’s going to be spared either.
I can’t even joke about popcorn. This is just a train wreck. 🙁
But it´s a train wreck that might serve as an impetus for certain things that need to be done and/or said to actually happen.
I was thinking that as well. Sometimes to heal you have to say mean things. It’s like removing a bandage, it stings but it must be done. Amanda’s soon to be drunken tirade may be what everyone needs.
Though for my own entertainment, I like to imagine she points to Heather, Todd, Andi, and Selkie in that order and shout “You suck! And you suck! And you suck! You’re all right.”
That wasn´t what I had in mind – more like it´ll make it clear to everyone (particularly Todd and Andi) how utterly messed-up Amanda is. And this, in turn, will lead to both Amanda getting the help she needs, and Selkie and the others no longer being Amanda´s punching-balls.
I just don’t think she’ll stop at saying the most immediate “this is what’s causing my pain” bits. I think she’s going to go on about far more. Which, like you said, I’m thinking will lead to her getting the help she needs.
**grin** Hi there, fellow Goblins fan!
GallowsNoose isn’t the only Goblins fan here:
http://www.goblinscomic.org/12232015-2/
Oh dear. Train-wreck in progress, brace for further impacts.
Last panel: Is this “Exhibit A” for the defense or the prosecution?
Starting to think: what if Andi verbally tears these two a new one for this? Showing that even if she’s still a new mom, she’s not incompetent. That yes there are gaps in her knowledge, and she still has a lot to learn, but even a ‘perfect parent’ screws up because the way I see it, you can get everything right and teach your kid everything, but that doesn’t mean they won’t mess up.
PERFECT PARENTS DON’T EXIST IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO DO EVERYTHING WITHOUT YOU OUR YOUR KIDS MESSING UP.
This is my OPINION. Don’t tear it down just because you don’t agree with me.
*OR
you take a class for all that defense?
i don’t think anyone’ll disagree with you. humans (and aquatic humanoids) are inherently flawed creatures.. it’s impossible for anyone to be perfect, let alone a perfect parent. If you aren’t messing up, you aren’t doing parenting right. Kids learn from mistakes, especially from their elders. It’s the drive behind an advanced & evolving society.
-___- Hardy-har-har. How about most of the time when I speak my mind, be it online or IRL, I get shit for it? Next time I’ll keep my mouth shut like usual.
But that is pretty much my exact point. You gotta let a kid be a kid so they learn for themselves what not to do. If you tell them no you can’t do it and give them no reason not to, they’ll still do it and only get in trouble for doing it. But if you let them go on their own a bit and let them learn on their own without telling them no and punishing them blindly, that’s honestly a great way to parent. Maybe not the best way, but it is a way my parents used and it worked out fine for us.
Every kid is different.
I agree telling a kid no with no reasoning and then simply punishing them when they did it is no way to parent. But not telling them no isn’t always a great way to parent either.
Instead, tell them no, tell them the why of the no, and expose them to appropriate consequences if they disregard the no. If they are the kind of kid who rebels at “no”, skip the “no”, and instead use “if you do ___, then ___ will happen”.
I don’t think Andi has the guts to do it. Maybe after a while, but it’s still too early for Andi to put on her big girl pants and do it. Things take stages to get to. She might try to interject, but she isn’t going to get assertive and get their attention.
You underestimate the power of a pissed-off mom, no matter how new it is to them. My mom never let being a new mom keep her from telling someone off for saying something or doing something derogatory, because comments from other people about your kids can be indirect insults towards how you parent. My mom never took those sitting down.
Maybe it’ll take Andi a while to get into the swing of that, but eventually she won’t stand for sh*t when it comes to her daughter, especially when someone like Kenneth is calling Amanda a bad kid without knowing the entire story behind what she’s been through. For now though Todd could step up and tell them off like he did to the principal when Selkie was having troubles in school. He didn’t take sh*t with her, he’d do the same for Amanda too.
I have absolutely no idea where Dave is going to take this but any of the above suggestions are awesome! Maybe he’s got it in his head to even combine some of the ones already mentioned plus add new stuff! Ya never know:)
And this is not a place for attacks. We’s friendlys here:) Nope. No parent is perfect. In fact, I have purposefully let my daughter try something on her own, knowing she would not get it right, just so that she knows it’s okay to fail, to overcome, and then ya get that great sense of accomplishment:) Not for things dumb like burning your hand on the stove. I mean more like how to tie a knot the wrong way or skating down the driveway super fast for the first time and not sure if she can stop. I need to see her test her limits, but I’m always right there for her, every time:) That’s part of being a good parent. Not perfect. Just the best I can try to be:)
Having met your kids, Jade, I look forward to the glorious revolution they shall enact. Long may they reign!
No, I pretty much have seen first hand the fury of a mother’s rage. My mother tried throwing a man out of a car with one hand and damn near succeeded when he threatened me as a kid. Why one hand? She was driving at the time. I have seen what can happen when a mother goes mother bear on someone.
But while she’s doing all right so far, I have seen Andi crumble under pressure so far. I look back at her shrinking into the crowd while Amanda is screaming for her help and I just don’t think Andi has been assertive enough in life to let the rage out when needed and protect her kid. Given time, I could say yes. But until then, I have seen her in a situation where she needs to stand up, and she crumbled. So I will remain skeptical about her courage.
Andi’s been doing a pretty good job as a mom so far, whatever else you say about her. But if takes it out the serving staff ? I’m going to lose all respect for her.
Wait staff and serving staff have a thankless, sh*tty job. All it takes is one second looking away to serve someone else, and Amanda can run off with a couple of glasses. At that point, they’re pretty much screwed. I don’t know what these guys’ training was like, but when I worked service we were always instructed NEVER to touch a child, no matter what, unless, perhaps, the child was in imminent danger of death. Reason being, one of our staff once grabbed a child to prevent injury and the parents not only made a huge fuss, but tried to press charges for assault.
So yeah, you’re damned if you do, damned if you don’t. Damned if you grab a child’s hand to stop her from reaching for something, damned if you don’t and she gets into something she’s not supposed to. It’s a thankless job where everyone thinks that just because you’re a lowly nobody they can treat you like dirt.
I…. Forsee Andi loosing custody of Amanda, at least temporarily, thanks to this little stunt, and her being sent to Todd, thuss ensuring more Amanda/Selkie interplay. Wonder exactly how Selkie is going to react to having to share her room.
I don’t understand. Why are so many people leaping to the conclusion that some mindless officialdom is going to blame Andi for this?
Both of Amanda’s parents are in the room. If Andi took her eyes off Amanda for fifteen seconds… well, so did Todd.
Moreover, one does not normally expect to have to watch an eight year old that closely! For instance, no adult happens to be paying attention to Selkie at the moment, and that seems perfectly reasonable, doesn’t it?
By the way, good for you, Heather! Though I suppose you really didn’t want the dads to linger on that particular topic, did you?
Except Todd’s not on the birth certificate. So he won’t get any blame. I’m with you mind you. I don’t think Amanda will get taken away. However, I do believe that Lillian will scold her and chew her out.
Todd however will not get any flack from this by anyone as officially he is not responsible. And if a government official tries, I’ll wonder whatever happened to his parental rights.
All that aside, I foresee Miss Lillian clearly seeing what’s going on and maybe even being okay with it, as a chance for Amanda to let loose to “begin the healing process”, or even just to get in trouble and have her parents as a team decide how to sort out the punishment, because that’s part of being a family. Something like that? She’s literally staring right at them, watching the whole thing, and she is a smart cookie:)
I don’t think Lillian knows that Todd is Amanda’s father.
Maybe she isn’t close enough to have overheard what Todd has been saying. But I get the feeling Kenneth isn’t keeping his voice down, and, as JG says, Lillian is a smart cookie. Other than that part (which she may pick up on very quickly right now), she knows nearly as much about Amanda as we the readers do.
Is anyone else reminded of the ‘Anne of Green Gables’ scene with the currant wine/raspberry cordial mix-up?
Also, I spy Giselle noticing from across the room. Not that it’s a surprised for someone to notice someone else yelling … I think Giselle might end up involving herself in the upcoming whatever-happens, or at least comment on it afterwards. Maybe try to hold it over Amanda’s head if the two of them end up in conflict at school, only to have it pointed out that half the class (and therefore also the teacher) know what happened so it’s no good as blackmail?
YES!! Poor Diana…
“Don’t you think you’ve had enough juice, kid?”
“I’ll tell you when I’ve had enough juice! Hit me again!”
And Amanda is a MEAN drunk…
How can you tell?
On one hand I hope Andi tears the two basement dwellers at the wine stand a new one and on the other, I hope Lilian doesn’t notice the drunk eight year old and go whelp, ya dun fudged up. State workers ARE OBLIGATED to report crap like that even if they don’t want to >> They’re mandated reporters.
In our world they’re mandated reporters. In that one? Who knows?
A report does not necessarily mean the kid gets taken away though. It just means the situation has to be looked in to. Usually, the kid ends up taken away, in our world.
To little surprise I imagine Kennith as one of those people who don’t place much stock in psychological trauma.
I know everyone’s debating the Potential of Psychological Damage and the fact that Kenneth’s kind of being a dink (Really this should be discussed in a PRIVATE LOCATION Ken ol’ bean, Justified or not) I’m just sitting here and wondering when in God’s Green Earth did someone pass Alcohol to the Small Child?!
Nobody gave it to her, she just grabbed…
With all the “juice” that Amanda’s chugged, she’s likely to create some “modern art” of her own … all over the floor, all over the table, all over the wall, all over herself, all over anyone who comes near her …
Hahaha:) I’d like to see that! And it might even make it to the ranks of Selkie’s fish puke picture!
Ouch from the last page, Amanda’s on her third or fourth cup of ‘juice’. She is going to be gloriously drunk with a heckuva hangover. Yeah this train wreck is will be brought to everyone’s attention with a temper tantrum from hell.
Often times ‘hurtful panks’ are the things that make other kids commit suicie, just sayin’ …
Suicide, even.
Also pranks.
I hear you.
And it´s not just suicides. I´m not going into details about my experiences in school, but let´s just say that if gun availability here in Germany had been what it is in the US, I might have made something very regrettable happen.
On second thought, and keeping the above in mind, Heather´s prank was not the typical “hurtful prank”, in that it didn´t aim to humiliate Selkie, as such, or make Heather feel superior or powerful, but essentially an (*extremely* misguided) attempt on her part to make up to Amanda for “ditching” her.
Heather was acting stupid, or at least impulsive and foolish, whereas Amanda was vindictive, cruel and self-absorbed.
This is true. I’m just saying if her father thinks, ‘hurtful pranks’ are at best, just that, he’s mistaken in a big way. Often times mental and emotional abuse is far more damaging than physical abuse. I’d wager that those are higher up in suicide numbers than kids who’ve suffered physical abuse are.
Most probably.
I acknowledge your point. However, the crucial difference in the motivation and the mindset of the two girls – Heather quickly realized both that she´d done something wrong and that Amanda isn´t worth doing crap like that, whereas Amanda still cannot understand how anything she´s done could possibly be wrong, and thinks that everyone except her mom and Lillian is stupid and out to hurt her.
For Amanda, everything exists and has to happen for her own sake; sure, she´s only 8 years old, but every other kid in the comic except maybe Truck has shown at least some empathy towards others, (and even Truck cares enough for his dad to try and make him proud in an utterly wrong way) only Amanda has not.
Amanda has been mentally, emotionally and physically abused and adults have utterly failed her in her eyes, many, many times. The only adult that hasn’t failed her is Andi. Even Lillian has failed her. And honestly? I don’t know how or why she’s seemingly forgiven Andi for giving her up at first. It’s very un-Amanda like. But to Amanda, every adult has failed her so she acts mistrust full and aggressive in order to protect herself. It’s not an excuse, but it’s very much an explanation. Even so, why listen to adults and behave as they say when they’ve never helped her and have failed her at every turn? For Amanda it’s survival, not necessarily malevolence, but there’s a fair amount of jealousy involved as well. She’s not trying to be evil and cruel, it’s just all she knows.
Also, Kenneth is doing a bit of his own fair share of excuses. He’s trying to excuse Heather’s behavior when really, Amanda had a much better excuse for what she did. She was hurt, betrayed and acting out of anger and raw emotions. Heather also was feeling very cornered, but she still resorted to harming someone who wasn’t invovled. Amanda took her anger out directly on the person who caused her pain.
He can’t excuse Heather’s betrayal of Amanda’s trust. Amanda told her something very personal and Heather told her biggest enemy. And just as Andi has no idea what Amanda did, Kenneth likewise has no idea what Heather did. The difference here is Heather is intentionally keeping that a secret. Whether or not because she knows she was wrong or she’s excluding it because she thinks shehes right and doesn’t matter remains to be seen. Amanda’s isn’t keeping it from Andi, it happened BEFORE Andi was in her life. Amanda hadn’t brought it up because she’s had no reason to, she’s not informed Andi of the incident at all, whereas Heather talks about it at length with her parents and chooses to leave out the bit that makes her look bad. And I’m sure ONE of them has asked, “Well why did she hit you/Why were you two fighting?” and her response was something along the lines of, “Amanda is just mean and crazy.” and completely left out the, “I betrayed my best friend’s trust.” entirely.
I wonder if she’s clinging to Andi… Hm. Lemme talk this out a bit. (I’m sick and the words are all tangly anyway. Blah.)
1: Andi is HER MOTHER COME BACK. Her mother realized she had made a TERRIBLE MISTAKE and CAME BACK to RESCUE Amanda. This fits into a narrative. (Akin to the teenager not-actually-suicidal “I will DIE and everyone will be SORRY and they will all be SO SAD” fantasy, I suspect.)
2: Amanda has been on not-so-good behavior with Andi and not once has Andi threatened to take her back to the orphanage, or hit her, etc. (I suspect Amanda’s bad behavior will escalate intermittently to test that Andi really really isn’t going to become Horrible or throw her away again.)
3: Amanda is well aware of at least #2, if probably not why Amanda herself is being such a pill. Andi is trying. Andi has given up her bed to Amanda, so Amanda can have her Own Room. Andi picks her up from school. Andi gets her Stuff. Andi keeps her from throwing up. 🙂 This ties into #1 in some ways: it fits the narrative of “she realized her mistake and is sorry and WANTS ME.”
So in this case… Andi is trying to make it up to her. Amanda sees that. It fits a narrative that Amanda almost certainly wants to believe (even as her cynical side might want to reject it).
Eventually the anger about being given up will probably surface. It could take years of in-comic time (if not years of real time… ;), or it could show up in in-comic months, weeks, days, or the next few minutes. My wager would be that it will only surface when Amanda feels really sure that Andi is not going to give her up, or hurt her, no matter what. When it’s safe to be really angry at someone, because you know that even if they’re not liking you, they’ll still love you.
But, to be fair, Selkie is Amanda’s biggest enemy inside Amanda’s head, only. The rest of the time? Unless Amanda is actively engaged in winding Selkie up, Selkie generally couldn’t give two hoots about her. Amanda is the one that’s looking, constantly, for ways to hurt Selkie, and is actively invested in causing her pain whenever the opportunity arises. She has an actual vendetta for something that isn’t Selkie’s fault.
If anything, to be perfectly frank, Heather’s actions were also harmful to SELKIE, because it’s, once again, given Amanda something more to victimise and bully her with. The fact that she waited to hit Heather, rather than going after her habitual scapegoat might even be considered progress…
I’d get offended at his words, expect they did treat it like a seriously bad thing Heather was punished, so it’s not like they were taking it lightly.
In fact, I think at least in part Kenneth is upset that, while he punished his kid for a hurtful prank she played on Todd´s kid, Todd does not appear to have punished his own kid for assaulting Ken´s kid. Like “I know it´s wrong when my kid does it. Do you know it´s wrong when your kid does it?”
To be fair Amanda wasn’t adopted yet when it happened, he probably doesn’t know that though.
Do agree that Amanda needs to start seeing consequences for her bad actions, she’s getting away with too much.
Andi needs to step up on that right now. She’s the one that must drop the hammer and get things done. Todd can’t at this point. He can speak on her behalf, explain things sure, but right now he can’t actually oversee her punishments. It’s all on Andi.
Right now? No!
What Andi NEEDS to do right now is get Amanda away from that wine and out of the public eye. Pronto. If there’s a back room in the gallery they could use that, otherwise they should just leave. You don’t drop punishments for old offenses on an accidentally drunk eight year old. That’s idiotic. You sequester them someplace where they can settle down and sleep it off. Time enough to talk about other things AFTER you’ve dealt with the immediate crisis.
I expect that is what’s going to happen eventually. But there are too many people acting at cross purposes here. I don’t believe anything can happen fast enough to avoid some socially awkward revelations.
I don’t mean this second. I realized that’s what it looked like after I hit post. I meant right now in the general sense of at this point forward.
Right at this second, Andi needs to tell Todd to go get a burger and fries for Amanda, try to lessen some of the damage of the alcohol while getting some water into Amanda. Part of being a parent is to delegate things upon others and while Todd isn’t on the birth certificate he is still interested in being her father so he should lend a hand.
Sorry for the confusion, my error there. No, Andi doesn’t need to punish Amanda right this second over old offenses, or silly mistakes like the alcohol. But at this point on, she needs to be more willing to drop the hammer when Amanda does something wrong. Set boundaries and parent, which sometimes sucks, but must be done. At this second, she needs to prevent the situation from getting worse, get Amanda away from the situation, and slow down or stop the threat of a hangover.
So you think that what Heather did to Selkie is worse than what she’s been suffering at Amanda’s hands for years?
Course not. Ken doesn’t know what Amanda has done to Selkie. He’s got no idea. Right now though, he’s insinuating that harmless pranks aren’t anything to worry about, when in reality those so called harmless pranks can be the worst of all.
Amanda’s actions can at the very least be explained. She needs guidance and someone who won’t give up on her and just call her a bad seed.
But what I’m saying is Ken is making excuses for Heather and blatantly writing off HER terrible behavior as somehow miniscule compared to Amanda’s bad behavior.
I’d think a kid would be far more traumatized by their shirt being stolen, made to walk around naked in front of her peers, made fun of and laughed at for it by said peers and then made to sit nude in an office while knowing everyone else knew what happened than being called a mean name all the time.
I mean, really, aside from Amanda being generally nasty to Selkie, calling her a monster or a fish or just being flat out rude to her, she’s never assaulted Selkie or stolen her clothes from her. The mental abuse she does is pretty damn terrible and stressful, for certain, because that can be very damaging to Selkie and it’s really messed up to do.
She’s just really mean to Selkie, but at least she’s never attacked her. I mean, Amanda is prone to getting into fights so I’m glad she’s never attacked Selkie. I think really, the worst thing she’s done is convince that new boy Selkie was a monster they fed the bad kids to. That was pretty messed up on a few levels and clearly hurt Selkie.
Heather didn’t realize how bad what she was doing is, in her mind it was just a harmless prank – she didn’t do it to hurt and traumatize Selkie but to impress her friends.
On the other hand Amanda is being mean and hurtful to people on purpose, and her hitting heater was intended to hurt her as punishment for what she sees as a betrayal.
So yes even though the consequences of both actions can be seen as similar, the difference is that Heather was just being stupid, Amanda was acting out of malice.
I may be misunderstanding you, but it actually does sound like you’re saying that Heather’s prank was more hurtful than Amanda’s constant bullying. I apologize if I’m misunderstanding you, but that’s how it’s coming across.
That said, I don’t think Heather would have done what she didn’t if Amanda hadn’t already created a hostile environment towards Selkie. Amanda took every opportunity to alienate Selkie from the rest of the class, and telling the new kid that she was a monster was just an extention of that. Selkie became, for better or worse, as a “deserving target.”
Further, I strongly disagree with minimizing Amanda’s actions because they were “only words.” Just as emotional abuse can be more painful than physical abuse, emotional bullying can be far worse than physical bullying.
With physical bullying (and abuse), you can show people the bruises, and suddenly everyone’s rallying to help you. With emotional bullying, people don’t take it seriously and expect you to get over it.
Thing is, systematic bullying and denigration of that sort, being constantly put down for years, leaves scars that don’t go away even when you’re an adult. You struggle with a lifetime of anxiety, depression, suicidal thoughts, the whole gamut. Words are a *huge* deal.
And finally, Amanda’s constant picking on Selkie’s appearance is completely unacceptable. If she made fun of a black child for their complexion, or an Asian child for their features, no one would ever let her get away with it. I get that other people don’t realize Selkie’s a different race, that they think it’s some sort of illness. But again, if Amanda were making fun of a child with Down’s Syndrome or blindness, I doubt people would be so quick to excuse her.
That’s not only on Amanda though. I’m completely appalled (but unsurprised) that the adults in the situation have done little to nothing to protect Selkie from this. The only consequence Amanda’s ever experienced is just a mild request not to do that anymore.
I’m just glad Sellkie’s so incredibly resilient emotionally.
Here’s your handbasket. I’m pretty sure you know where this is going.
I’m honestly more surprised she’s able to chuck the wine like she is.
Is Kenneth being obtuse on purpose? That wasn’t a prank. That was intentional theft and a huge blow on Selkie’s self esteem. For cripes sake she has done just as bad of things as Amanda.
Already addicted,
sad