… Now that she’s an adult, seems to have a stable, paying job, and while the same holds true for her child’s father, who would very definitely take an interest in his child?
Seems like she’s exaggerating what happened between her and her mother. Because she never said anything about disowning her kid for this. :/ Nor did she imply.
But she did say she doesn’t want to be a part of Amanda’s life. Being that she’s a mother now, Patricia pretty much can’t have one without the other. Turning away one is turning away both.
She did, actually, imply, when she insisted she’d have nothing to do with Amanda, and when she basically accused Andi of ruining her life (it was subtle, but go over that page (the one linked to below the previous page) again. It’s not what she said, but how she said it.).
I’m starting to wonder if you’d even be willing to acknowledge on-screen abuse at this point. You seem fairly determined to cast Andi as nothing but a one-sided villain.
She NEVER SAID ANDI RUINED HER LIFE OR EVEN IMPLIED IT. You’re just lying out your rear about what actually happened and for cripes sake quit it and leave me alone!!!!!
Y’know, when something makes a person this irrationally angry, there’s usually a reason. Something they don’t want to confront. It’s none of our business what that “something” might be, for you. But you might be better off confronting it for yourself.
Whatever makes you happy. Did ya stop to think that I’m more annoyed than angry. But hey,I can’t be annoyed with someone who can’t leave me alone and is insistent that I’m a horrible human being for not seeing what they see.
But hey. Thanks for the tone policing. You can stop talking to me ever again too. *claps*
Never said you were a horrible person, nor did I intend to imply such (if I did imply it, I apologise). Just that you’re refusing to see what’s there because you hate Andi so much, something humans commonly do. I’ve even caught myself doing it every so often.
Yo,I don’t HATE her. But I’m starting to give less about her than I already had. I mean it isn’t like I friggin’ have ever said anything nice about her. Or that I liked some of the things she’s done. Just not the other stuff.
I think you’re reading into …’s words things that were not there, LadyObvious. I’ve seen you do that a lot here in the more Andi focused comics…
Not everyone is attacking you. Far as I’ve seen, you haven’t even been attacked at all. Why are you so defensive?
Speaking as someone who is often defensive to the point of having ruined several friendships for no good reason… You should take a step back and ask yourself why you’ve been getting so riled up about a web comic. It’s not healthy. I’ve been reading your comments for a while now and they concern me.
an·noyed
adjective
adjective: annoyed
slightly angry; irritated.
“Kelly was annoyed with him”
an·noy
əˈnoi/
verb
past tense: annoyed; past participle: annoyed
irritate (someone); make (someone) a little angry.
You keep denying that you are angry. You say that instead you are annoyed, which is actually a form of anger, which thus makes you angry. If you knew that already, that is what would make my statement unnecessary.
If you are unable to accept that, then my part in this conversation is over.
“If you’re unable to except that strangers can define your feelings for you and shoving things in your face unnecessaringly then this conversation is over.”
Good. Cuz now I’m actually starting to get angry and you’re all over my nerves.
First off, take a step back and cool down. Second, the amount of detail she went into when telling Andi about the potential consequences, the fact that she stated them as inevitable facts, and even her choosing the phrase ‘ruin your life’. Not ‘make your life harder’. Not ‘change your life’. ‘RUIN your life’. It’s also VERY telling that she made no answer to Andi’s response to that, merely glaring silently. That’s not the action of someone falsely accused. That is the reaction of someone who knows the person they’re arguing with is right, but refuses to admit it.
Uhm, the artist posted this link https://selkiecomic.com/comic/selkie590/
and we are all reading into that conversation that Andi’s mom had HER when she was 17 also, and Andi asking “Speaking from experience ma?” and the raised eyebrow from her mom we all sorta took as clincher that yes in fact, Patricia had Andi at a young age and had to give up whatever she planned to take care of her.
I don’t know why you take anyone pointing out facts you don’t like as them attacking you (and I assume you will immediately start shrieking that I am too, but I’m just pointing out what the artist himself posted as “being relevant”) or why you are so very invested in hating a fictional character.
You can admire things someone has done and still hate the person. The two are not, contrary to popular belief, mutually exclusive, and you say a lot more negative things about her than you do positive, and almost nothing neutral that I recall.
If you’re just going to go to nuclear defense and then shut down, this conversation is pointless, and I’m done. Let’s pick back up when you’re mature enough to argue a point without reverting to an angry preteen whenever anyone says anything but, “You’re absolutely right.”. You have interesting things to say when you’re not being overly defensive and flying off the handle.
So all but outright telling your child you resent them for existing is not abuse? Pressuring them into giving up a child, then refusing to support their efforts to make what they did right is not abusive? Trying to get them to choose between their child and you isn’t abusive?
To be clear, none of that is a personal attack. the ‘you’s are all general ‘you’, not specific ‘you’. I’m trying to get you to see something here.
As for Andi not talking to Patricia, I can tell you from personal experience that that is possibly the single most brilliant thing you’ve said that I can recall, even if you were saying it more or less sarcastically. Sometimes momma really is evil, and the best thing to do is get her as far out of your life as you can.
Could you just seriously…-___- She didn’t pressure Andi into it at the friggin’ time. She did it because Andi wasn’t ready and suggested it to help her. After all,she wasn’t emotionally ready to have a child. Also,realistically. It wasn’t a smart move!
Heartwarming,yes. Smart? No. She’s going to have to explain why she wasn’t looking for her. Why her Dad didn’t know why she was alive.
All it’s going to do is make Amanda despise the heck out of her and not forgive her. Possibly. Which will hurt Andi. But what would I know? I mean it isn’t like I’m a victim myself. And none of this reads as her being abused at. All. But whatever.
I don’t think Patricia said she’d disown her,so is Andi exaggerating here? Like. She said she didn’t want to,obviously couldn’t,see Amanda. And might have plans.
If she truly disowned ya,Andi. She’d probably have changed the number and made sure you wouldn’t know a dang thing about what she’s doing. Like,what does Patricia do for Christmas? Bring over friends?
Heck. Maybe she’s regretting not being apart of it and feels ashamed.
I think the thing to remember here is we only saw what her mother said BEFORE Andi went and got Amanda. Much like how we saw the family talk about dyeing the girls hair. We never saw the process of them picking and designing, we only saw the talk before and the results after. We saw strong indications of her mother not approving. Now Andi says she was disowned. We also know there has not been talk of Amanda visiting that Grandmother in some time.
I would like to mention that just because someone disowns someone else doesn’t mean they are going to go through the trouble of changing all contact information. Particularly (and no, I don’t know is Patricia is like this), if they hope/expect the person to come crawling back begging for forgiveness because they were so so wrong.
As far as Andi not knowing what she does, if her mother is a creature of habit things probably did not change much. Other than leaving Andi out of the plans.
I’m honestly not sure which way it is, if she was or wasn’t disowned. I’m waiting until I see the next 2 or 3 comics for a confirmation. The only thing I’m certain of is Patrica really doesn’t want to see Amanda. If nothing else because at some point it’ll come up that SHE told young Andi that she needed to get rid of the kid and no she doesn’t regret telling her daughter to do that because they became successful without Amanda around in her eyes.
A symbol that Mom was loosing control of Andi to Todd? And maybe Mandi is the incarnation of that Symbol that Patricia was loosing ascendancy in her daughters life. Her little girl was growing up? And she cannot abide that? Just a guess.
Andi is also dramatic as heck and isn’t exactly the most reliable human being. Like for crying out loud,she’s changed her story about the adoption to suit the person she’s talking to.
Umm, you called Patricia abusive way back when. What changed? I am not saying that to make you feel bad, but you seemed not to like Patricia very much after she told Andi that she would have destroyed her life.
Did something Andi did during the story made you change your mind?
How long ago was that? Let’s see….hmmmmmmm….years wasn’t it? My opinion changed because,it doesn’t seem like it anymore. Weird how people’s opinions change after a few friggin’ years. Ain’t it? I mean it isn’t like I realized we had no solid evidence that she was abusive.
Maybe it’s the fact that Andi has lied for eight years about Amanda. Has told Todd and his family that she died. Crapped on his family when he brought up adoption. Then tried to get back with him after he found out,in a very sitcom way,that Amanda wasn’t dead and he was given plant ashes as a fake dead baby. Hmmm.
Look, this is becoming another heated round of opinion-trading, and I’ve said before and will say again now that I’m tired of watching my comment sections devolve into argumentive bickering. I wish I had stepped in earlier when I saw it flaring up this afternoon, because this is turning into The Old Way again. And I don’t want that.
And I know you’re not going to like this LadyObvious, but the common thread in these meltdown moments is generally you lashing out at people. I’ve asked you before to tone down on that, I’ve asked you not to snap at people, and I’m tired of it. I’m tired of you being over-sensitive and defensive and snarky whenever people disgaree with you or ask you to defend your positions on things. I’ve tried to be lenient about it because I don’t perceive you as starting arguments on purpose, but frankly I’m not being lenient anymore. You are the common thread on most of the major rage sessions on these comments, and I’ve had enough of it.
You’re muted. I’ll be checking your comments for approval before they appear going forward.
I didn’t mean to make it this bad. Or be this rude. I know I messed up and I promise that I’ll tone down my words. Please don’t mute me. Please. I’m sorry.
Ok so it’s been about a year. And since then. All of what Andi’s done has come to light. She’s done some good. Done some bad. Now,I ain’t too sure that Patricia was abusive.
That’s fair. And I wasn’t trying to get you in trouble with Dave. I was really wondering what had changed. I am guessing these last few days have been very stressful. I know they have been for me.
I think denying someone’s child, especially your own grandchild, means you deny both of them. So I understand why Andi feels disowned. By washing her hands of Amanda, Patricia washed her hands of Andi as well. Which is sad on so many levels for all involved. Andi is actually being really brave to reach out to someone who rejected her and Amanda. Snarky brace, but for Andi it’s a step in the right direction I think. She needs to confront her maternal unit.
I’ve never seen The Jazz Singer, but I did see a clip of it where Neil Diamond pleads with his Jewish father to at least look at a photo of his grandson. It was quite touching, the son unwilling to give up his career and dreams yet desperately yearning to bridge the gap between his modern sensibilities and his father’s traditional mindset, and to ensure that his son gets to experience the full breadth and depth of his family as he’s growing up, to have the full culture he’s entitled to.
So it’s a flip side to your point: Disowning a father can mean disowning the children, too. If you accept a person, you accept those who they care about.
But then… do you? I think I could come up with reasoning the other direction as well. Like, I could accept a friend and acknowledge that she cares for her drug-addled daughter, without accepting or wanting to spend any time with the daughter. I could find out that my son is a manipulative abuser and decide to stop letting him have a hold on my life, yet still want to spend time with my grandchildren.
Heck, we’ve got a couple family members who we just plain are sick of dealing with, and yet I’m very close to their children — as long as we’re cordial enough to each other, there’s no barrier between me and the kids, but I don’t care to be anything closer and probably never will.
It’s a complicated issue, I think. It depends on the reasons for the split.
What Vixandra said, pretty much. If I have a child and my parent says they want nothing to do with said child that pretty much leaves me out of the equation. I’m not going to leave “grandchild you don’t want to deal with” with a babysitter so I can visit “grandparent they’ve heard about but will never meet.”
My children and I are a package deal. You can be mad at me for choices I’ve made but the second you take it out on my children – your grandchildren – we are done here.
ok, andi´s ma might not have actually said the words, but it was pretty clear – get your kid back and i want nothing more to do with (both of) you…..and with how quietly determined she said it, i doubt christmas cheer and/or alcohol is going to suddenly make her see the error of her ways.
andi better make sure that no one, especially amanda, overhears THAT phonecall.
It’s very possible it happened off-screen. I had the impression from Andi’s conversation with her mom that it was going to end that way—either with Patricia disowning her or Andi having to make the choice not to see her any more since she was not accepting Amanda. That is what emotional abusive people do when they can’t control their victims anymore.
Not to mention in the same conversation Patricia implied that Andi ruined her life “speaking from experience?” and then silence, not saying no – that’s a lot of guilt to put on someone. On top of saying she doesn’t want to see or have anything to do with Amanda.
The thing that kind of got to me was “you’re going to turn that kid’s life upside down” — because living in an orphanage is so great and stable? If Amanda’d been adopted out to a happy home, Andi might not have been allowed to even know where Amanda was. She sure wouldn’t have been able to “go get her.”
Sounds like Patricia is nursing a load of justifications for ditching her grandchild, and trying to spin a fairytale version of orphanages. So she won’t have to face something she knows was wrong to do way back then.
Also, I have now read the comments for both this and previous strip… And now I really really hope this conversation turns obviously ugly on Patricia’s side real fast. Just so people who keep insisting that Andi is whiny, selfish, evil and probably abusive to everyone around her can see… SOMETHING. I don’t know.
Andi IS whiny, selfish, evil and probably abusive.
Because that is a thing that happens when you are raised by an abusive parent. You take after them. Even when you loathe the behavior. Even when you loathe the parent.
There are many people here who don’t seem to like to hear that. This is a shame, because the sooner you realize how much you take after the abusive people who raised you, the sooner you can begin to work on fixing it. Ignoring the problem, evading it, only increases the length of time and amount of severity with which you continue the pattern you grew up with.
Andi seems to be getting an early start. Which means that perhaps by the time Amanda is a teenager, she might have got rid of some of the more overt behaviors. Because it takes that much time and that much effort to repair the damage of a broken childhood. Even when you think you’re just fine, and it’s everyone ELSE who has the problem. Especially then.
Andi has a lot to answer for. We don’t know who came up with idea to say that Amanda died, but there is some minor implication that Patricia helped it at least – a 17-year-old without an income doesn’t get to buy an urn, or fill it up with the ashes at her parent’s house, without some involvement from said parent. But it was Andi’s choice not to come clean during the 8 years afterwards. And she was manipulative. It wasn’t until Todd broke up that she finally got Amanda, and when she invited herself over for Christmas, she only pulled out it was for Amanda’s good after she was shot down herself. So yes, Andi has some things to work through. But so far, there haven’t been any characters that are just 1-sided jerks (not even Truck), and as we’ve seen more of Andi here focused on Amanda, I at least am willing to cut her some slack that she’s learning. I’ll be interested to see how Patricia’s side is handled
“But so far, there haven’t been any characters that are just 1-sided jerks”
Case in point:
I have been following this coming since at least 2012. I once posted, a few years ago, how Amanda was an irredeemably terrible person and I would never, ever forgive her for how she treated others.
Now, I actually kinda sorta like her. A person I never thought I would, a person who so much mirrors the people who made my life hell when I was younger… and instead of hating her, I sympathise with her. She has been through hell, and it’s totally understandable she turned out this way.
Dave is so good at creating these intriguing, complex, thought-provoking characters. I can’t wait for what else he has is in store for us.
Yeah, so far the only flat-out villain has been the principal guy. Every other villain raised has been a villain explained, one eventually we can sympathize with and appreciate as a character, even if we may not like them all that much.
Every single one. So I wasn’t surprised to see Andi made sympathetic (even if her choices are inexcusable), and I doubt her mom’s gonna be irredeemable either.
Selkie is just that kind of comic. One of the reasons that, out of the 3-5 comics this generally-binge reader keeps up on daily, Selkie consistently makes the top three.
Since it looks like their is confusion there are different degrees of “Disowned”
On the basic someone refused to contact or respond and wants nothing to do with that person. Kind of like being estranged.
A bit stronger is when someone takes action to remove them further from the list, removing from the will changing name, etc. This is the start of taking official action.
Strongest is full legal action where you remove someone from any link family wise. That requires lawyers and a lot else so yeah.
I am guessing this is more along the line of the first and the mother wanted no part of what Andi was doing with Amanda and since that pissed off Andi she wanted no part of her mother then. So this is more likely estranged.
Agree. The chief *material* consequence of being disowned is getting excised from the will. But there is also a psychological component. Since Patricia does not give the impression of rolling in wealth, her will is probably irrelevant to Andi. Therefore it is the psychological effect of rejection to which she refers. She *feels* disowned, no matter whether Patricia ever said the word.
I feel sorry for Andi. She was put in an extremely difficult position as a “kid”, by her own actions, and by her mother’s “helping suggestions”. Was her mother wrong to say give the kid up, depends on your view of things. Was she wrong to listen, again depends on your view. Was she wrong to lie to Todd….Yes. But she was a scared kid who listened to her mother.
Now she’s an adult and trying to make up for the stupid things a scared kid did. She does love her daughter, and I’m sure a part of her loves Todd, but she’s growing up, almost at the same time as her daughter, because from what I have seen of her. She stopped. After she gave up Amanda and lost Todd she just stopped growing up.
Part of her mother’s “you would have ruined your life if you kept her” take on things, I am sure is related to losing her (Patricia) “little girl.”
She doesn’t want to meet Amanda because then she has to admit A) Andi is not a little girl, she’s a grown woman with her own child and B) Andi has someone else in her life who will trump the mom on atention.
I say the above from personal experience. My mother has stated outright (and in my wife’s presence) that she hated my partner when I brought her home for the first time, because it meant it took my attention away from her (my mom).
All of that said…it’s still just my opinion. 🙂 Can’t wait to see what happens next.
If Andi makes this call during the gathering, at least she will have emotional support from Todd and maybe Theo if things go south. Which we know they likely will. I understand the desire to reach out to Patricia, but your timing and location could be a little better, Andi.
The worst that can happen, Andi, is that your mother can say things that will tear you down, rob you of your present happiness, and cause you to become upset enough to say things to the others present that will either make you look even worse, or reveal the truth of what happened to Amanda in a way that will make it even more egregious than it was.
Abusers absolutely can destroy and abuse over the phone. For some of them, it’s a particular specialty. It takes years to learn that once you’ve got your foot out the door, the thing to do – always! – is to keep walking away.
I’m less worried about what she’ll say to the others than I am about what they might overhear her saying to her mom. Especially Amanda. My worst fear for that conversation is for her to get riled up and yell something about being pushed into the adoption, riiiight when Amanda walks into the room. Remember that face she made when Andi snapped at her in the truck? I’m imagining that x10. Total immediate heartbreak.
And accepting that a relationship is dead is harder than you might think. Because everyone wants the big, happy family that you always see in movies, where everyone loves each other and is there for each other, despite their differences.
My sibling and I have… difficulties, to put it lightly. And yet I keep giving him second chances. And third chances. And fourth chances. And nine thousandth chances. And every single time, he hurts me. He’ll act like a decent human being just long enough that I’ll let my guard down, so it will hurt even more when he sticks the knife in my back. I have now, finally, after two decades of abuse, accepted it is not meant to be.
Huh. Disowned. I wonder if that was the lever Patricia used back when Amanda was born to convince Andi to give Amanda up and not give Todd a voice in the decision. What if Patricia gave her the old, “you keep this baby and you’re dead to me” malarkey? I’ve seen it happen.
I was fortunate. When as a teen, I called my mother to tell her I was pregnant, she had only three words for me. “Come home, Baby.” It took me two hours to pack my thinks and drive home. My parents sheltered me and looked after my daughter while I worked until she was two.
It was hard work, and I was exhausted most of the time. I did shelve my dreams for some years. I can only imagine how insurmountable it would
Have seemed if my parents had said “you’re not welcome”, and refused to let me see my siblings or help me in any way.
You were fortunate to have such a good family. I hope that most families are like that — that we only focus on the negatives because we only usually hear about the negatives (positives don’t make the news and aren’t passed around as juicy gossip, etc.). I really don’t know.
In one of the stories I’m writing, the main character’s backstory includes her pretty much disowning herself: She ruins someone’s life and then the guilt drives her to make even worse choices than she had been making, until she ends up pregnant but doesn’t tell her family for weeks, and by that time they are hardly supportive of her emotional needs (she’s worn their patience thin). She ends up giving birth early (premie, but otherwise healthy) and just leaving town, leaving her family to care for the baby.
Since her sister was all primed to attend a major college, and her dad’s in no shape to care for the kid himself (and the mom’s dead and there’s no extended family in the States)… she pretty much derailed her entire family’s future because she couldn’t deal with her situation at all. So of course when later she contemplates trying to mend some bridges, the whole thing just seems insurmountable.
I can see a lot of her mindset in Andi, even as Andi’s decisions remain incomprehensible to me.
There’s a few compliments I’ve been given over the years, on various forums across the net, that I have treasured for years and look back fondly on. Yours just made the list 🙂
Dave, just this exact moment, I realized that your storytelling reaches me on such a level that it is on the same caliber as my favourite author, Brent Weeks.
Both of you create such amazing characters, worlds, and stories that I completely sink into them and lose myself while reading, forgetting time and everything else around me until I am done. Because they feel REAL to me. I almost feel like I know them personally. They’re not some archetype you’ve thrown together; each and every one of them is a fully fleshed-out person that you have considered every aspect of. I laugh with them, cry with them, love with them, and hate with them. And then you use your amazing skills to make me love the ones I used to hate. I re-read from the beginning a few times a year because it never ceases to interest me, and every time I do, it gives me a new perspective on all the characters. To be brutally blunt… if all I cared about was the art, I probably would not have ever read your story. And that would have been one of the biggest mistakes of my life. Because everything you write is amazing, your characters are phenomenal, and I love seeing the progression of your artistic skill. There are no words to express exactly how glad I am that you did not wait to publish this until you were ‘better’, because your story could NOT be better. It is astronomically fantastic, and every night before your update I am furiously hitting refresh waiting for the next one. I have been reading webcomics since the early aughts, and never before have I found one that I connected with as much as yours. I’ve even got my girlfriend to read it, and she’s never read a single webcomic before, ever. I’m currently working on my mom.
TL;DR You are amazing and your work is beyond fantastic. Keep up the good work.
Sad as it is, I might have to start avoiding the comments entirely. Bitter, angry, and vitriolic comments are making them unenjoyable, which is a shame because I always loved reading the comments and getting insight into things that I missed.
Nothing could stop me from reading the comic itself, but I might have to avoid the comments from now on.
I’m really sorry for that. I’ve been trying to keep argumentative shit like this out of the commentary, but I haven’t been quick enough to act this time around.
Dave, just want to thank you again for an amazing and engaging comic. I really enjoy how the characters retain complexity beyond the so-called easy morality tale!
You have done nothing to be sorry about Dave. You aren’t the one who’s the problem, and reading through some of the comments you posted today, I see that the issue is being taken care of. I thank you for that.
Ayana, I understand. I’ve largely done that, but there’s still some good stuff to be found here in comments. skip anything written by habitual haters to avoid triggers. It’s not a perfect system but it means you don’t leave the community entirely.
This has also been my reaction – I’ve been reluctant to comment with my actual thoughts because I’m uncomfortable with the level of vitriolic response. I have less free time than I did (pumpkinkittybaby is 6 1/2 weeks old now!) and less energy for it.
Still love the comic, still enjoy thinking and theorizing, though. Just – not comfortable putting my thoughts out there if it can’t be easy give and take.
It frustrates me from my end too. I want ALL readers to feel free to state their opinion, but that includes contrary opinions as well as the ones who agree with the consensus, and we all know what happens when contrary opinions float out into the discussion. I don’t want to just nuke every person who disagrees with other commenters because I worry that just leads to a Pleasantville echo-chamber where everyone agrees with everyone else, lest they be silenced.
But I don’t want toxic rage-energy coming up every few strips either, and it pushes more people away than it involves and… and hell I don’t know sometimes if I’m making good management decisions re: the comment boards or if I’m completely spiraling it into a quagmire of verbal sludge by letting arguments happen with minimal involvement. Even when I’ve tried to be more active at nipping toxicity out of the discussion threads, it still keeps popping up. And I’m afraid to get too hard-edged about it because I don’t want to become one of those places where the author deletes everything that isn’t kissing his ass.
I think that the method you’ve chosen is a good one. Repeat offenders of aggressive behavior are monitored, but not silenced. There is nothing wrong with having a discussion, but there is no reason for it to devolve into bitter and rage fueled fighting.
It’s definitely a tough position to be in. I’ve run online communities in my distant, sordid past, and I recognize the struggle you’re dealing with – there’s the ideal of free speech on the one hand and on the other hand the recognition that some people can/will/do misuse free speech in this sort of fashion.
The goal is for commenters to be mature enough to handle dispute without it spiraling into repeated vitriol, while recognizing of course that humans are gonna human. My frank opinion (don’t call me Frank) is that you’re actually doing extremely well. You only are stepping in when you have to, and I haven’t seen you overreact or slam the banhammer down indiscriminately.
Arguments are not inherently a bad thing. Conflict can produce interesting new thought processes. You’re doing what you can to keep things civil even when people disagree and without implementing authorial bias or complete dictatorial control. In short, you are moderating, and the fact that you’re successfully taking on this kind of stressful role on top of day job, personal life, and producing creative content means you deserve considerable kudos. Been there, done that – it’s a thankless job most of the time, and deserves its own recognition. So… thanks!
Ayana, if you’d like to discuss the comic with a fellow fan in a more positive setting, feel free to contact me via YouTube (Arkylie – link should be in my name there) either by PM or just by commenting on one of my videos (I use the very first video I posted, the Halloween costume one, as kind of a mini-forum for people to get in touch with me if they can’t PM).
I’d also be willing to act as a comment pre-skimmer, to give you a private heads-up on whether the content is particularly negative that day. No idea if I could do that in a timely manner, but it’s a thought.
…actually, it might be worth making a Google group for Selkie fans who’d like to collectively discuss it. We could get some sort of more exclusive forum going, or group emails.
Moment of truth!
Wait. Disown? Andi was disowned?
… For checking up on her biological child?
… Now that she’s an adult, seems to have a stable, paying job, and while the same holds true for her child’s father, who would very definitely take an interest in his child?
Seems like she’s exaggerating what happened between her and her mother. Because she never said anything about disowning her kid for this. :/ Nor did she imply.
But she did say she doesn’t want to be a part of Amanda’s life. Being that she’s a mother now, Patricia pretty much can’t have one without the other. Turning away one is turning away both.
She did, actually, imply, when she insisted she’d have nothing to do with Amanda, and when she basically accused Andi of ruining her life (it was subtle, but go over that page (the one linked to below the previous page) again. It’s not what she said, but how she said it.).
I’m starting to wonder if you’d even be willing to acknowledge on-screen abuse at this point. You seem fairly determined to cast Andi as nothing but a one-sided villain.
She NEVER SAID ANDI RUINED HER LIFE OR EVEN IMPLIED IT. You’re just lying out your rear about what actually happened and for cripes sake quit it and leave me alone!!!!!
She kinda did imply, it, actually.
Yeah,no. She didn’t. But whatever makes you happy.
“Keeping that girl would’ve destroyed both of your lives.”
“Speakin’ from experience, Ma?”
*Angry glare*
Very, very, very heavily implied.
She totally implied it.
Y’know, when something makes a person this irrationally angry, there’s usually a reason. Something they don’t want to confront. It’s none of our business what that “something” might be, for you. But you might be better off confronting it for yourself.
Whatever makes you happy. Did ya stop to think that I’m more annoyed than angry. But hey,I can’t be annoyed with someone who can’t leave me alone and is insistent that I’m a horrible human being for not seeing what they see.
But hey. Thanks for the tone policing. You can stop talking to me ever again too. *claps*
Never said you were a horrible person, nor did I intend to imply such (if I did imply it, I apologise). Just that you’re refusing to see what’s there because you hate Andi so much, something humans commonly do. I’ve even caught myself doing it every so often.
Yo,I don’t HATE her. But I’m starting to give less about her than I already had. I mean it isn’t like I friggin’ have ever said anything nice about her. Or that I liked some of the things she’s done. Just not the other stuff.
But nope. I just absolutely totes hate her.
I think you’re reading into …’s words things that were not there, LadyObvious. I’ve seen you do that a lot here in the more Andi focused comics…
Not everyone is attacking you. Far as I’ve seen, you haven’t even been attacked at all. Why are you so defensive?
Speaking as someone who is often defensive to the point of having ruined several friendships for no good reason… You should take a step back and ask yourself why you’ve been getting so riled up about a web comic. It’s not healthy. I’ve been reading your comments for a while now and they concern me.
*claps* Not defensive. Second,I was just annoyed. It seems like apparently to anyone involved I have to see abuse where there isn’t any but whatever.
“It’s not healthy” I ain’t angry,how many times do I gotta say it? I’m annoyed.
an·noyed
adjective
adjective: annoyed
slightly angry; irritated.
“Kelly was annoyed with him”
an·noy
əˈnoi/
verb
past tense: annoyed; past participle: annoyed
irritate (someone); make (someone) a little angry.
-_- Gee…thank you.
You keep saying you’re annoyed as if it is an alternative to anger, when in fact it is a FORM of anger.
*claps* That was completely unnecessary but thank you for that.
So you finally admit that you actually are angry?
How in any stretch of the imagination was that admitting to something I wasn’t?
That was literally me being sarcastic about you posting the definition for annoyed. Which is completely unnecessary and unneeded.
You keep denying that you are angry. You say that instead you are annoyed, which is actually a form of anger, which thus makes you angry. If you knew that already, that is what would make my statement unnecessary.
If you are unable to accept that, then my part in this conversation is over.
“If you’re unable to except that strangers can define your feelings for you and shoving things in your face unnecessaringly then this conversation is over.”
Good. Cuz now I’m actually starting to get angry and you’re all over my nerves.
First off, take a step back and cool down. Second, the amount of detail she went into when telling Andi about the potential consequences, the fact that she stated them as inevitable facts, and even her choosing the phrase ‘ruin your life’. Not ‘make your life harder’. Not ‘change your life’. ‘RUIN your life’. It’s also VERY telling that she made no answer to Andi’s response to that, merely glaring silently. That’s not the action of someone falsely accused. That is the reaction of someone who knows the person they’re arguing with is right, but refuses to admit it.
Uhm, the artist posted this link https://selkiecomic.com/comic/selkie590/
and we are all reading into that conversation that Andi’s mom had HER when she was 17 also, and Andi asking “Speaking from experience ma?” and the raised eyebrow from her mom we all sorta took as clincher that yes in fact, Patricia had Andi at a young age and had to give up whatever she planned to take care of her.
I don’t know why you take anyone pointing out facts you don’t like as them attacking you (and I assume you will immediately start shrieking that I am too, but I’m just pointing out what the artist himself posted as “being relevant”) or why you are so very invested in hating a fictional character.
Was that at me, LadyObvious, or both?
I don’t hate her. I have told you and everyone that I don’t hate her.
Over and over again. I’ve even liked some of the stuff Andi’s done. Like her hair and some bonding moments with Andi.
I don’t hate her. But with all her fanclub getting upset that some of us don’t see any abuse,it’s getting hard to give a hoot about her. Or Amanda.
*Amanda
You can admire things someone has done and still hate the person. The two are not, contrary to popular belief, mutually exclusive, and you say a lot more negative things about her than you do positive, and almost nothing neutral that I recall.
<Says I don't.
<Doesn't.
But gee. Whatever. I should just go all "She's so awesome when she emotionally manipulates someone into getting her way! So awesome!"
If you’re just going to go to nuclear defense and then shut down, this conversation is pointless, and I’m done. Let’s pick back up when you’re mature enough to argue a point without reverting to an angry preteen whenever anyone says anything but, “You’re absolutely right.”. You have interesting things to say when you’re not being overly defensive and flying off the handle.
Well,ain’t you condescending. I literally don’t hate Andi.
But I’m starting to. Mostly because her fans insist that she’s been abused and her actions so far are sorta friggin’ terrible.
Yes. That means she’s so abusive. Such an abusive,nasty evil momma. Then maybe Andi shouldn’t ever speak to her again.
So all but outright telling your child you resent them for existing is not abuse? Pressuring them into giving up a child, then refusing to support their efforts to make what they did right is not abusive? Trying to get them to choose between their child and you isn’t abusive?
To be clear, none of that is a personal attack. the ‘you’s are all general ‘you’, not specific ‘you’. I’m trying to get you to see something here.
As for Andi not talking to Patricia, I can tell you from personal experience that that is possibly the single most brilliant thing you’ve said that I can recall, even if you were saying it more or less sarcastically. Sometimes momma really is evil, and the best thing to do is get her as far out of your life as you can.
Could you just seriously…-___- She didn’t pressure Andi into it at the friggin’ time. She did it because Andi wasn’t ready and suggested it to help her. After all,she wasn’t emotionally ready to have a child. Also,realistically. It wasn’t a smart move!
Heartwarming,yes. Smart? No. She’s going to have to explain why she wasn’t looking for her. Why her Dad didn’t know why she was alive.
All it’s going to do is make Amanda despise the heck out of her and not forgive her. Possibly. Which will hurt Andi. But what would I know? I mean it isn’t like I’m a victim myself. And none of this reads as her being abused at. All. But whatever.
I don’t think Patricia said she’d disown her,so is Andi exaggerating here? Like. She said she didn’t want to,obviously couldn’t,see Amanda. And might have plans.
If she truly disowned ya,Andi. She’d probably have changed the number and made sure you wouldn’t know a dang thing about what she’s doing. Like,what does Patricia do for Christmas? Bring over friends?
Heck. Maybe she’s regretting not being apart of it and feels ashamed.
I think the thing to remember here is we only saw what her mother said BEFORE Andi went and got Amanda. Much like how we saw the family talk about dyeing the girls hair. We never saw the process of them picking and designing, we only saw the talk before and the results after. We saw strong indications of her mother not approving. Now Andi says she was disowned. We also know there has not been talk of Amanda visiting that Grandmother in some time.
I would like to mention that just because someone disowns someone else doesn’t mean they are going to go through the trouble of changing all contact information. Particularly (and no, I don’t know is Patricia is like this), if they hope/expect the person to come crawling back begging for forgiveness because they were so so wrong.
As far as Andi not knowing what she does, if her mother is a creature of habit things probably did not change much. Other than leaving Andi out of the plans.
I’m honestly not sure which way it is, if she was or wasn’t disowned. I’m waiting until I see the next 2 or 3 comics for a confirmation. The only thing I’m certain of is Patrica really doesn’t want to see Amanda. If nothing else because at some point it’ll come up that SHE told young Andi that she needed to get rid of the kid and no she doesn’t regret telling her daughter to do that because they became successful without Amanda around in her eyes.
A symbol that Mom was loosing control of Andi to Todd? And maybe Mandi is the incarnation of that Symbol that Patricia was loosing ascendancy in her daughters life. Her little girl was growing up? And she cannot abide that? Just a guess.
Andi is also dramatic as heck and isn’t exactly the most reliable human being. Like for crying out loud,she’s changed her story about the adoption to suit the person she’s talking to.
I don’t trust her.
Umm, you called Patricia abusive way back when. What changed? I am not saying that to make you feel bad, but you seemed not to like Patricia very much after she told Andi that she would have destroyed her life.
Did something Andi did during the story made you change your mind?
How long ago was that? Let’s see….hmmmmmmm….years wasn’t it? My opinion changed because,it doesn’t seem like it anymore. Weird how people’s opinions change after a few friggin’ years. Ain’t it? I mean it isn’t like I realized we had no solid evidence that she was abusive.
Maybe it’s the fact that Andi has lied for eight years about Amanda. Has told Todd and his family that she died. Crapped on his family when he brought up adoption. Then tried to get back with him after he found out,in a very sitcom way,that Amanda wasn’t dead and he was given plant ashes as a fake dead baby. Hmmm.
Which wasn’t too long after Todd adopted Selkie.
….yes how dare I not trust her after all this.
Look, this is becoming another heated round of opinion-trading, and I’ve said before and will say again now that I’m tired of watching my comment sections devolve into argumentive bickering. I wish I had stepped in earlier when I saw it flaring up this afternoon, because this is turning into The Old Way again. And I don’t want that.
And I know you’re not going to like this LadyObvious, but the common thread in these meltdown moments is generally you lashing out at people. I’ve asked you before to tone down on that, I’ve asked you not to snap at people, and I’m tired of it. I’m tired of you being over-sensitive and defensive and snarky whenever people disgaree with you or ask you to defend your positions on things. I’ve tried to be lenient about it because I don’t perceive you as starting arguments on purpose, but frankly I’m not being lenient anymore. You are the common thread on most of the major rage sessions on these comments, and I’ve had enough of it.
You’re muted. I’ll be checking your comments for approval before they appear going forward.
I’m sorry,Dave.
I didn’t mean to make it this bad. Or be this rude. I know I messed up and I promise that I’ll tone down my words. Please don’t mute me. Please. I’m sorry.
I’m sorry, but this isn’t the first time we’ve spoken of it. You know that. I’m going to have to hold to the decision for the time being.
Understood. I know I don’t deserve another chance,that was probably my last. Again,I’m sorry. I’ll try better in the future.
Ok so it’s been about a year. And since then. All of what Andi’s done has come to light. She’s done some good. Done some bad. Now,I ain’t too sure that Patricia was abusive.
That’s fair. And I wasn’t trying to get you in trouble with Dave. I was really wondering what had changed. I am guessing these last few days have been very stressful. I know they have been for me.
Hoping your days are better.
I think denying someone’s child, especially your own grandchild, means you deny both of them. So I understand why Andi feels disowned. By washing her hands of Amanda, Patricia washed her hands of Andi as well. Which is sad on so many levels for all involved. Andi is actually being really brave to reach out to someone who rejected her and Amanda. Snarky brace, but for Andi it’s a step in the right direction I think. She needs to confront her maternal unit.
I’ve never seen The Jazz Singer, but I did see a clip of it where Neil Diamond pleads with his Jewish father to at least look at a photo of his grandson. It was quite touching, the son unwilling to give up his career and dreams yet desperately yearning to bridge the gap between his modern sensibilities and his father’s traditional mindset, and to ensure that his son gets to experience the full breadth and depth of his family as he’s growing up, to have the full culture he’s entitled to.
So it’s a flip side to your point: Disowning a father can mean disowning the children, too. If you accept a person, you accept those who they care about.
But then… do you? I think I could come up with reasoning the other direction as well. Like, I could accept a friend and acknowledge that she cares for her drug-addled daughter, without accepting or wanting to spend any time with the daughter. I could find out that my son is a manipulative abuser and decide to stop letting him have a hold on my life, yet still want to spend time with my grandchildren.
Heck, we’ve got a couple family members who we just plain are sick of dealing with, and yet I’m very close to their children — as long as we’re cordial enough to each other, there’s no barrier between me and the kids, but I don’t care to be anything closer and probably never will.
It’s a complicated issue, I think. It depends on the reasons for the split.
What Vixandra said, pretty much. If I have a child and my parent says they want nothing to do with said child that pretty much leaves me out of the equation. I’m not going to leave “grandchild you don’t want to deal with” with a babysitter so I can visit “grandparent they’ve heard about but will never meet.”
My children and I are a package deal. You can be mad at me for choices I’ve made but the second you take it out on my children – your grandchildren – we are done here.
ok, andi´s ma might not have actually said the words, but it was pretty clear – get your kid back and i want nothing more to do with (both of) you…..and with how quietly determined she said it, i doubt christmas cheer and/or alcohol is going to suddenly make her see the error of her ways.
andi better make sure that no one, especially amanda, overhears THAT phonecall.
Yeah, she might want to Solid Snake out of there, get to her car and have that particular discussion.
It’s very possible it happened off-screen. I had the impression from Andi’s conversation with her mom that it was going to end that way—either with Patricia disowning her or Andi having to make the choice not to see her any more since she was not accepting Amanda. That is what emotional abusive people do when they can’t control their victims anymore.
Not to mention in the same conversation Patricia implied that Andi ruined her life “speaking from experience?” and then silence, not saying no – that’s a lot of guilt to put on someone. On top of saying she doesn’t want to see or have anything to do with Amanda.
The thing that kind of got to me was “you’re going to turn that kid’s life upside down” — because living in an orphanage is so great and stable? If Amanda’d been adopted out to a happy home, Andi might not have been allowed to even know where Amanda was. She sure wouldn’t have been able to “go get her.”
Sounds like Patricia is nursing a load of justifications for ditching her grandchild, and trying to spin a fairytale version of orphanages. So she won’t have to face something she knows was wrong to do way back then.
Oh.
This strip is actually a very interesting artistic thing.
How to make a monologue featuring only one character visually interesting? Well, this is how. NEAT
Also, I have now read the comments for both this and previous strip… And now I really really hope this conversation turns obviously ugly on Patricia’s side real fast. Just so people who keep insisting that Andi is whiny, selfish, evil and probably abusive to everyone around her can see… SOMETHING. I don’t know.
Andi IS whiny, selfish, evil and probably abusive.
Because that is a thing that happens when you are raised by an abusive parent. You take after them. Even when you loathe the behavior. Even when you loathe the parent.
There are many people here who don’t seem to like to hear that. This is a shame, because the sooner you realize how much you take after the abusive people who raised you, the sooner you can begin to work on fixing it. Ignoring the problem, evading it, only increases the length of time and amount of severity with which you continue the pattern you grew up with.
Andi seems to be getting an early start. Which means that perhaps by the time Amanda is a teenager, she might have got rid of some of the more overt behaviors. Because it takes that much time and that much effort to repair the damage of a broken childhood. Even when you think you’re just fine, and it’s everyone ELSE who has the problem. Especially then.
Calling her evil is a biiiiiit much at this point. Early on maybe, but she’s legitimately trying to make good and repair the damage of the past.
Andi has a lot to answer for. We don’t know who came up with idea to say that Amanda died, but there is some minor implication that Patricia helped it at least – a 17-year-old without an income doesn’t get to buy an urn, or fill it up with the ashes at her parent’s house, without some involvement from said parent. But it was Andi’s choice not to come clean during the 8 years afterwards. And she was manipulative. It wasn’t until Todd broke up that she finally got Amanda, and when she invited herself over for Christmas, she only pulled out it was for Amanda’s good after she was shot down herself. So yes, Andi has some things to work through. But so far, there haven’t been any characters that are just 1-sided jerks (not even Truck), and as we’ve seen more of Andi here focused on Amanda, I at least am willing to cut her some slack that she’s learning. I’ll be interested to see how Patricia’s side is handled
“But so far, there haven’t been any characters that are just 1-sided jerks”
Case in point:
I have been following this coming since at least 2012. I once posted, a few years ago, how Amanda was an irredeemably terrible person and I would never, ever forgive her for how she treated others.
Now, I actually kinda sorta like her. A person I never thought I would, a person who so much mirrors the people who made my life hell when I was younger… and instead of hating her, I sympathise with her. She has been through hell, and it’s totally understandable she turned out this way.
Dave is so good at creating these intriguing, complex, thought-provoking characters. I can’t wait for what else he has is in store for us.
Yeah, so far the only flat-out villain has been the principal guy. Every other villain raised has been a villain explained, one eventually we can sympathize with and appreciate as a character, even if we may not like them all that much.
Every single one. So I wasn’t surprised to see Andi made sympathetic (even if her choices are inexcusable), and I doubt her mom’s gonna be irredeemable either.
Selkie is just that kind of comic. One of the reasons that, out of the 3-5 comics this generally-binge reader keeps up on daily, Selkie consistently makes the top three.
Since it looks like their is confusion there are different degrees of “Disowned”
On the basic someone refused to contact or respond and wants nothing to do with that person. Kind of like being estranged.
A bit stronger is when someone takes action to remove them further from the list, removing from the will changing name, etc. This is the start of taking official action.
Strongest is full legal action where you remove someone from any link family wise. That requires lawyers and a lot else so yeah.
I am guessing this is more along the line of the first and the mother wanted no part of what Andi was doing with Amanda and since that pissed off Andi she wanted no part of her mother then. So this is more likely estranged.
Agree. The chief *material* consequence of being disowned is getting excised from the will. But there is also a psychological component. Since Patricia does not give the impression of rolling in wealth, her will is probably irrelevant to Andi. Therefore it is the psychological effect of rejection to which she refers. She *feels* disowned, no matter whether Patricia ever said the word.
I feel sorry for Andi. She was put in an extremely difficult position as a “kid”, by her own actions, and by her mother’s “helping suggestions”. Was her mother wrong to say give the kid up, depends on your view of things. Was she wrong to listen, again depends on your view. Was she wrong to lie to Todd….Yes. But she was a scared kid who listened to her mother.
Now she’s an adult and trying to make up for the stupid things a scared kid did. She does love her daughter, and I’m sure a part of her loves Todd, but she’s growing up, almost at the same time as her daughter, because from what I have seen of her. She stopped. After she gave up Amanda and lost Todd she just stopped growing up.
Part of her mother’s “you would have ruined your life if you kept her” take on things, I am sure is related to losing her (Patricia) “little girl.”
She doesn’t want to meet Amanda because then she has to admit A) Andi is not a little girl, she’s a grown woman with her own child and B) Andi has someone else in her life who will trump the mom on atention.
I say the above from personal experience. My mother has stated outright (and in my wife’s presence) that she hated my partner when I brought her home for the first time, because it meant it took my attention away from her (my mom).
All of that said…it’s still just my opinion. 🙂 Can’t wait to see what happens next.
If Andi makes this call during the gathering, at least she will have emotional support from Todd and maybe Theo if things go south. Which we know they likely will. I understand the desire to reach out to Patricia, but your timing and location could be a little better, Andi.
Tact and appropriateness of context are not Andi’s best things!
The worst that can happen, Andi, is that your mother can say things that will tear you down, rob you of your present happiness, and cause you to become upset enough to say things to the others present that will either make you look even worse, or reveal the truth of what happened to Amanda in a way that will make it even more egregious than it was.
Abusers absolutely can destroy and abuse over the phone. For some of them, it’s a particular specialty. It takes years to learn that once you’ve got your foot out the door, the thing to do – always! – is to keep walking away.
I’m less worried about what she’ll say to the others than I am about what they might overhear her saying to her mom. Especially Amanda. My worst fear for that conversation is for her to get riled up and yell something about being pushed into the adoption, riiiight when Amanda walks into the room. Remember that face she made when Andi snapped at her in the truck? I’m imagining that x10. Total immediate heartbreak.
Patricia made her stance clear, the best thing to do would be to just… respect that and leave her be.
Impulse control is not Andi’s best thing either.
And accepting that a relationship is dead is harder than you might think. Because everyone wants the big, happy family that you always see in movies, where everyone loves each other and is there for each other, despite their differences.
My sibling and I have… difficulties, to put it lightly. And yet I keep giving him second chances. And third chances. And fourth chances. And nine thousandth chances. And every single time, he hurts me. He’ll act like a decent human being just long enough that I’ll let my guard down, so it will hurt even more when he sticks the knife in my back. I have now, finally, after two decades of abuse, accepted it is not meant to be.
Huh. Disowned. I wonder if that was the lever Patricia used back when Amanda was born to convince Andi to give Amanda up and not give Todd a voice in the decision. What if Patricia gave her the old, “you keep this baby and you’re dead to me” malarkey? I’ve seen it happen.
I was fortunate. When as a teen, I called my mother to tell her I was pregnant, she had only three words for me. “Come home, Baby.” It took me two hours to pack my thinks and drive home. My parents sheltered me and looked after my daughter while I worked until she was two.
It was hard work, and I was exhausted most of the time. I did shelve my dreams for some years. I can only imagine how insurmountable it would
Have seemed if my parents had said “you’re not welcome”, and refused to let me see my siblings or help me in any way.
You were fortunate to have such a good family. I hope that most families are like that — that we only focus on the negatives because we only usually hear about the negatives (positives don’t make the news and aren’t passed around as juicy gossip, etc.). I really don’t know.
In one of the stories I’m writing, the main character’s backstory includes her pretty much disowning herself: She ruins someone’s life and then the guilt drives her to make even worse choices than she had been making, until she ends up pregnant but doesn’t tell her family for weeks, and by that time they are hardly supportive of her emotional needs (she’s worn their patience thin). She ends up giving birth early (premie, but otherwise healthy) and just leaving town, leaving her family to care for the baby.
Since her sister was all primed to attend a major college, and her dad’s in no shape to care for the kid himself (and the mom’s dead and there’s no extended family in the States)… she pretty much derailed her entire family’s future because she couldn’t deal with her situation at all. So of course when later she contemplates trying to mend some bridges, the whole thing just seems insurmountable.
I can see a lot of her mindset in Andi, even as Andi’s decisions remain incomprehensible to me.
Kilyle, you’ve got a lot of empathy. That’s reassuring.
There’s a few compliments I’ve been given over the years, on various forums across the net, that I have treasured for years and look back fondly on. Yours just made the list 🙂
‘Shoulda saved some of that rum’? Didn’t Mari give you an entire bottle? And tell you to go light on it? Tssk tssk.
Dave, just this exact moment, I realized that your storytelling reaches me on such a level that it is on the same caliber as my favourite author, Brent Weeks.
Both of you create such amazing characters, worlds, and stories that I completely sink into them and lose myself while reading, forgetting time and everything else around me until I am done. Because they feel REAL to me. I almost feel like I know them personally. They’re not some archetype you’ve thrown together; each and every one of them is a fully fleshed-out person that you have considered every aspect of. I laugh with them, cry with them, love with them, and hate with them. And then you use your amazing skills to make me love the ones I used to hate. I re-read from the beginning a few times a year because it never ceases to interest me, and every time I do, it gives me a new perspective on all the characters. To be brutally blunt… if all I cared about was the art, I probably would not have ever read your story. And that would have been one of the biggest mistakes of my life. Because everything you write is amazing, your characters are phenomenal, and I love seeing the progression of your artistic skill. There are no words to express exactly how glad I am that you did not wait to publish this until you were ‘better’, because your story could NOT be better. It is astronomically fantastic, and every night before your update I am furiously hitting refresh waiting for the next one. I have been reading webcomics since the early aughts, and never before have I found one that I connected with as much as yours. I’ve even got my girlfriend to read it, and she’s never read a single webcomic before, ever. I’m currently working on my mom.
TL;DR You are amazing and your work is beyond fantastic. Keep up the good work.
Sad as it is, I might have to start avoiding the comments entirely. Bitter, angry, and vitriolic comments are making them unenjoyable, which is a shame because I always loved reading the comments and getting insight into things that I missed.
Nothing could stop me from reading the comic itself, but I might have to avoid the comments from now on.
I’m really sorry for that. I’ve been trying to keep argumentative shit like this out of the commentary, but I haven’t been quick enough to act this time around.
Dave, just want to thank you again for an amazing and engaging comic. I really enjoy how the characters retain complexity beyond the so-called easy morality tale!
You have done nothing to be sorry about Dave. You aren’t the one who’s the problem, and reading through some of the comments you posted today, I see that the issue is being taken care of. I thank you for that.
Ayana, I understand. I’ve largely done that, but there’s still some good stuff to be found here in comments. skip anything written by habitual haters to avoid triggers. It’s not a perfect system but it means you don’t leave the community entirely.
This has also been my reaction – I’ve been reluctant to comment with my actual thoughts because I’m uncomfortable with the level of vitriolic response. I have less free time than I did (pumpkinkittybaby is 6 1/2 weeks old now!) and less energy for it.
Still love the comic, still enjoy thinking and theorizing, though. Just – not comfortable putting my thoughts out there if it can’t be easy give and take.
It frustrates me from my end too. I want ALL readers to feel free to state their opinion, but that includes contrary opinions as well as the ones who agree with the consensus, and we all know what happens when contrary opinions float out into the discussion. I don’t want to just nuke every person who disagrees with other commenters because I worry that just leads to a Pleasantville echo-chamber where everyone agrees with everyone else, lest they be silenced.
But I don’t want toxic rage-energy coming up every few strips either, and it pushes more people away than it involves and… and hell I don’t know sometimes if I’m making good management decisions re: the comment boards or if I’m completely spiraling it into a quagmire of verbal sludge by letting arguments happen with minimal involvement. Even when I’ve tried to be more active at nipping toxicity out of the discussion threads, it still keeps popping up. And I’m afraid to get too hard-edged about it because I don’t want to become one of those places where the author deletes everything that isn’t kissing his ass.
I dunno what’s right. :\
I think that the method you’ve chosen is a good one. Repeat offenders of aggressive behavior are monitored, but not silenced. There is nothing wrong with having a discussion, but there is no reason for it to devolve into bitter and rage fueled fighting.
It’s definitely a tough position to be in. I’ve run online communities in my distant, sordid past, and I recognize the struggle you’re dealing with – there’s the ideal of free speech on the one hand and on the other hand the recognition that some people can/will/do misuse free speech in this sort of fashion.
The goal is for commenters to be mature enough to handle dispute without it spiraling into repeated vitriol, while recognizing of course that humans are gonna human. My frank opinion (don’t call me Frank) is that you’re actually doing extremely well. You only are stepping in when you have to, and I haven’t seen you overreact or slam the banhammer down indiscriminately.
Arguments are not inherently a bad thing. Conflict can produce interesting new thought processes. You’re doing what you can to keep things civil even when people disagree and without implementing authorial bias or complete dictatorial control. In short, you are moderating, and the fact that you’re successfully taking on this kind of stressful role on top of day job, personal life, and producing creative content means you deserve considerable kudos. Been there, done that – it’s a thankless job most of the time, and deserves its own recognition. So… thanks!
Ayana, if you’d like to discuss the comic with a fellow fan in a more positive setting, feel free to contact me via YouTube (Arkylie – link should be in my name there) either by PM or just by commenting on one of my videos (I use the very first video I posted, the Halloween costume one, as kind of a mini-forum for people to get in touch with me if they can’t PM).
I’d also be willing to act as a comment pre-skimmer, to give you a private heads-up on whether the content is particularly negative that day. No idea if I could do that in a timely manner, but it’s a thought.
…actually, it might be worth making a Google group for Selkie fans who’d like to collectively discuss it. We could get some sort of more exclusive forum going, or group emails.
Hey Kilyle! Just wanted to say that we have spoken in brief on youtube, you actually commented on one of my videos (about muh kitteh) recently.
At some point… my “N” turned into a “B” lol.