The layout here was going to be more complicated, with some flashbacks to Lillian encouraging supporting Amanda and helping her grow past her problems, but I opted to strip things down to the core of things.
Hey, I know this is short notice, but Saturday is the Extra Life charity fundraiser to benefit kids in the hospital — a lot of people will be running 24-hour gaming marathons, and I’m a participant this year!
Won’t be able to livestream (our internet is too unreliable right now), but my nephews and I will be playing games most of the day and I’ll try to get short highlights vids posted on my YouTube channel here and there.
It’s my first official kind of fundraiser — I mean, I started Tiny Box Tim Day, which did raise a little money, but it’ll be a while before that could be considered anything like official. I’m excited but also nervous.
I hope you’ll give it a look, and consider donating. My donations go toward Seattle Children’s Hospital.
(Plan has switched to getting vids posted ahead of time, interspersed with videos recorded on that day. More game content for viewers, including my Saints Row music video.)
It’s 3:30, and we’ve raised $27 so far. Also, the sheer attempt at getting videos up all day has pretty much doubled the number of videos that are on my account.
I don’t think it’ll be difficult to make it until midnight, but getting videos up fast enough without breaking stride, that’s the part I’m struggling with. Still, we’re having fun and raising money for a good cause 😀
I think this is the last time I’ll update you guys, but the fundraiser will continue this whole week (for me, at least), and we just bumped up to $127, just one dollar shy of the original goal.
I kind of imagined a bunch of people donating small amounts. Turns out, not counting the $15 from an account tied to mine, to be two people (so far), one of whom donated $10 and the other $100. One of them’s from my extended family (but not one I interact with very often). I’m still kinda in shock because I don’t think I honestly expected to make my goal.
Anyway, I’ll be posting game vids the rest of the week, and hoping to see that number go up further. But even if this is the cap, I’m proud to have been able to help the hospital provide for needy families 😀
Sum total for the week: $169. That’s counting a friend who signed up for Extra Life as well, because that’s how the website counts donations. The donations directly to my account add up to $127.78, just 22 cents shy of my original goal (which is kinda cool, actually).
I’m glad to have had a chance to help Seattle Children’s Hospital, even if it came last-minute and had me scrambling all week and stuff. Hope next year I can livestream 😀
I love how you weave in things the community has been discussing as in-character realizations. Dunno whether you planned them that way or worked it out from things we said, but you do it a LOT, and it’s really cool.
I think it’s the usual thing where audience ends up discussing things that are a center of dramatic tension and important subtext, which is INEVITABLY going to come up the comic anyway.
It’s not very common for me to re-direct things based on community feedback (although it HAS happened). In most cases it’s a simple matter of the community discussion organically working towards where I was headed anyway.
No, she just projected her experiences with her mom and subconsciously expected to need to protect and cheer up Amanda as Smiths would be as awful to her as she knew her mom would be.
Yet as she realized,they’ve never been like her Mom. She knew that. She’s known that for years. And I still don’t believe that Andi’s Mom is as bad as she’s making her out to be.
Also,it just occured to me. Patricia might not wanna see Amanda because she feels guilty that she had a hand in the adoption. Sure at the time,she saw it as a good thing for her kid to not have to grow up so friggin’ fast when she obviously wasn’t emotionally ready,but she probably does feel some guilt.
As we’ve seen several times – none of the characters focused on in this story (which shows how well written it is!) is completely one-sided. Patricia is probably feeling guilty, but also firmly believes what she said – that a child at 17 would have ruined their lives, and would still negatively affect Andi’s life. What she did in convincing Andi to give up Amanda so fast was wrong, and I do blame her for not allowing the Smiths to have some of that conversation, but I doubt she is purely a monster. I still have a feeling there was some abuse there though – Patricia sounds just too – resentful of having to be a mother for there not to have been some.
Well,yes. It would had. Especially when Andi was not ready emotionally or financially to have a child. She’s barely ready now to be a Mom. Even if she’s kinda good at being a parent.
None of what she’s done so far even remotely suggests abuse. I mean for crying out loud,am I really supposed to trust someone who lied to people she ‘cared’ about that their relative was dead and gave them tree ashes?!
Actually, her assuming the Smiths would reject Amanda, as well as generally assuming they’d be as unfriendly and unforgiving as Todd has been (who we’ve seen has had anger issues pretty much his whole life, whereas his parents have been shown to be the polar opposite so far.) is a big red flag for abuse. People who have been abused tend to see the worst in others (and we know Todd was abused pre-Smiths, so there’s the anger issues explained.). They also tend to have trust issues, impulse control issues, control issues in general, aversion to change, trouble building and maintaining meaningful relationships, and many also have abandonment issues. Andi has shown several of those signs.
Uh huh….I don’t see the friggin’ connection. Patricia hasn’t even done anything actually abusive. It feels like Andi was being just paranoid.
And quite frankly,that doesn’t always mean she’s been abused.
I want to see it written out that Andi was abused. Hints are not good when it comes to abuse. At all. If you wanna prove a character has been abused. Ya need to spell it out for someone.
Refusing to be with Andi when she went and got Amanda, all but outright accusing Andi of ruining her life by existing, pressuring her into the who thing with giving Amanda away in the first place, and possibly having been the one to come up with the ‘Amanda is dead’ lie (I doubt very much that Andi’s the one who came up with that. She doesn’t seem the type.), none of that’s abusive? NONE of that raises any red flags with you? I know you’re bound and determined to see Andi as a one-sided villain here, but come on… There’s a difference between ‘not enough evidence’ and ‘refusing to see the writing on the wall’
…..she never has said that or even came up with the lie! Andi did! All by herself and she never even told Patricia. Heck Patricia thought that Todd knew Amanda was alive and didn’t want to look.
She never told Andi she was a burden,but told an unprepared teenage mother that she wasn’t ready. When she obviously wasn’t ready to have a kid.
And she might not wanna see Amanda because she felt possibly guilty about having a hand in the adoption. For crying out loud,Andi hasn’t even given a clear story about that. She told Todd her Mom was pushing. But told Mari that she just suggested it. Sounds like a giant lie.
So yes,there is NO EVIDENCE that Patricia is an abuser.
Also,Andi very much came up with the lie. On the friggin’ fly when Todd came in to ask about the baby. It might have been a panic or it might not have been. But she did come up with it herself.
Until we get some clear proof,let’s stop assuming Patricia is an abuser.
While I tend to agree with “innocent until proven guilty,” I also know from working with children for years that it takes very few red flags to raise questions of abuse. Even with physical abuse, the abuser is often good enough that few red flags are raised, but those few need to be acted upon before it’s too late (I saw a doctor once say that if they see a child that they suspect is being abused, the next time they see that child, they are almost always dead).
Does that mean Patricia really was abusive? I don’t know. Not every red flag turns out to be abuse, and these may not be.
But those of us who work with children a lot are often specifically instructed to watch for the smallest signs of abuse, because it can have such terrible consequences, and so we may be more ready to think that.
And those who have been abused themselves almost certainly see the red flags that line up with their experience, and are therefore perhaps more likely to think that too.
All of that to say, I can see both sides. But I just don’t know yet.
This is why I want to meet Patricia. I am not willing to toss out judgement right now. Is she stubborn and unyielding? Yes, yes she is, but that is not the same as abusive. Did she plant the seed into Andi’s head? Absolutely. But again, this is not the same as abusive. I just need to meet her before I decide.
I saw a couple flags. Not supporting your daughter bringing home your daughter is a flag. It’s cruel to the daughter and very cold and cruel to your granddaughter.
Also, pressuring your daughter into adopting out her child (without even talking to the child’s father) right after the daughter births is another big fat flag.
Women (especially minors) are very vulnerable during and after birth. To push anyone to make such a life-altering decision on the fly in such a state is cruel. If she was really doing it for Andi’s/Amanda’s benefit, she’d have either brought it up before Andi became a hormone soup or left it alone. Any woman who has actually gone through birthing should know better and is an emotionally-abusive ass to pull such a stunt.
Dotcom,she wasn’t pressuring her. Andi said she couldn’t be a mom. So she suggested it for the benefit of Andi.
Also,who said she left the hospital? Who said she didn’t leave the room so Todd and her could talk. For cripes sake. And I don’t remember Dave ever mentioning that she never brought Andi home. Where did he say this? Where?
We have 0 proof. Her story changes from person to person about what happened. And quite frankly. All she’s guilty of is suggesting adoption to a panicked child who felt she couldn’t emotionally handle being a mother.
We don’t know what she said but we know it was about adoption. Even bringing it up after a birth is highly inappropriate. A good mother would not let her daughter do that—especially not before talking the boyfriend (unless he’s some sort of abusive monster).
And she pretty much ditched Andi after Andi said she was going to get Amanda back. That’s also not good parent behavior.
Telling someone they’re paranoid or over sensitive or over thinking or in general making them second guess their feelings and thoughts is known as gaslighting, which is a type of emotional and mental abuse. Andi is constantly second guessing herself. As a person who suffered that sort of abuse constantly from my ex boyfriend I can see it in her immensely. Someone in her life has told her she’s stupid and that she doesn’t know what’s best for her own life.
It’s very clear to me Andi has suffered emotional and mental abuse heavily.
Except we have no real proof. For crying out loud,we know nothing about Patricia. Nothing about what Andi does really comes off as being abused. Quite frankly,she’s just paranoid as all out and has done quite a few manipulative things herself.
Like the emotional manipulation she pulled on Todd. The time she tried to rekindle their relationship after telling him “Oh hey,the baby I told you was dead isn’t dead. Those ashes were tree ashes….wanna get back together?”
Or before that how she abandoned Amanda who promptly had a panic attack!
You keep forgetting how Andi’s mom pretty much told her she wasn’t being at all supportive of her getting Amanda back. That’s a shitty parent/grandparent behavior. Unless Andi is some kind of malicious monster (and from what we’ve seen she’s made dumb choices, but owns up to them) there’s no good reason for her mom to be nasty like that.
I totally agree with you, Spring Pop. I think gaslighting is worse than just physical abuse. It really fucks up the way you see the world, your feelings and yourself. Unfortunately, there is little child protection services can do to stop that (and other forms of emotional abuse) alone.
No, gaslighting is when you intentionally cause someone, through your words and actions, to doubt their own sanity. Telling someone they are being paranoid when evidence suggests they are being paranoid is not gaslighting. It may or may not be insensitive depending on the situation, but its absolutely possible for people to be paranoid or overly sensitive or to overthink things, so it is not necessarily wrong to bring up that point, the circumstances matter.
As to Andi and Patricia, we know that Patricia was certainly not supportive of Andi keeping the baby or with her going back to get the baby. And its certainly implied that Patricia has emotional issues with having, herself, been a too young mother, which could certainly have bled over into how Andi percieves herself. But we have no evidence so far of outright physical or emotional abuse towards Andi by Patricia. It certainly remains a possibility, and given Andi’s behavior I wouldn’t say its unlikely, but its also possible for messed up people not to be messed up because of their parents, or even if that contributes not to be malicious in nature.
We don’t (yet) know the degree to which Patricia influenced Andi towards adoption. Was it Patricia who brought it up or Andi? Did she go along with it because Andi was behaving in a way that indicated she didn’t want to keep the baby or did she push her towards it while Andi was merely having doubts? At the very least, looking back, it seems that at least SOME of Patricia’s intentions were altruistic and loving, not wanting to see her daughter go down a path that she herself believes led to a lesser quality of life.
But what we DO know is that Andi decided, on her own or with influence from her mother, to do an atrocious thing and fake Amanda’s death for incredibly selfish reasons – so she wouldn’t lose Todd. She COULD have let Todd and his family take the baby, and we have every reason to believe she knew they were loving and supportive, but in doing so she knew she couldn’t stay with Todd because that would mean being a mother. She choose to give up Amanda in such a way as to try and stay with Todd, betraying him and his family in an enormous way. And we have no evidence at this point to suggest that that was Patricia’s idea. Maybe it was, maybe it wasn’t, but for now, that burden lies squarely on Andi’s shoulders.
Giving up a child for adoption is, I have no doubt, an incredibly difficult choice in most cases, and can absolutely be done with the best interests of the child in mind. But unless Andi had reason to believe that Todd having custody of Amanda would put her in danger, it was absolutely wrong of her to prioritize her own desires over Todd’s desire to be a father and Amandas right to be raised by her father.
So, gentle confirmation for the ‘Andi is an evil schemer’ crowd: she WAS genuinely worried about Amanda and insisted on coming for HER sake.
It wasn’t the smartest decision, as are most of Andi’s, but it was made with the best intentions.
Yep. Proof that it was parental worry. Trust me I get worried when my daughter is with her grandparents and I’m not there cause I worry she will need me.
Your birthday corresponds with Extra Life charity fundraiser this year 😀
I’m not making a comment about mothers in general, but this is my experience with one specific mother:
My sister-in-law used to be incredibly anxious whenever the kids were over our way. At first she wouldn’t let them come at all; then she was willing to let us see them, but not sit them; finally we could sit them, but they couldn’t spend the night; then they could spend the night but had to call her every night, and one time when we missed a call she got so worried that my brother ended up canceling future plans for a while until she could calm down.
Nowadays she’s much less worried when they miss a day. (Me, I live with my parents and tell them where I’m going almost every time I go someplace, and I still can’t imagine calling them every single night if I’m away from home.)
But the thing my mom and I noticed was, this had zero to do with the kids’ emotional well-being. It had everything to do with their mother’s emotional instability. (She is unstable in other ways as well.) The kids barely thought of her when they were apart, and I swear it was better for their emotional stability when they weren’t reminded of her nightly. Getting a breather from her over-controlling mindset seemed to be a welcome relief for them, even when they were really young. And the only time I saw homesickness or worry about the separation, it seemed to be “I’m worried that my mom might get upset if I’m away too long” — not the kid’s own worries or desires, except as they applied to the mom.
You make a very good point and when i was an educator we saw this a lot with drop offs. I know for me it is more I am worried cause daughter has communication and expression difficulties. And last time we left her for two days she stopped eating cause of anxiety. We had to video chat to calm her down.
Now with Amanda’s abandomment issues i would have suggested a video chat with Andi when she was at the party to help ease any anxiety
Hm… I still see it more like she is realizing she put her own fears out there when none were truly for Amanda even though she THOUGHT they were. She knew the Smiths, she knew her mom. Why the heck would she not realize her mom was the ostracizing one? No idea… Andi was being a bit blind again, imo.
I don’t see Andi as an evil schemer, I see her more as immature and selfish. Not only were her fears about Amanda and the Smith’s pretty much completely without merit based on everything we (and she) knows about them, but there were ways to address it which didn’t involve forcing herself in to the situation. There are even ways she could have gotten herself included. I honestly believe Todd probably would have gone along with it if Andi had just honestly said to him, “I know you and your family are good people, but this is Amanda’s first Christmas together with me and I’d feel a lot better and it would mean a lot to me if we could be together on Christmas Eve too. I know that thing might be a little awkward, but I do think it would be good for Amanda too if both her parents were there.” A request not a demand, an explanation not an ultimatum.
That little nuance is the distinction between the entitled mindset and the social mindset. Request (and be ready to accept refusal) rather than manipulate and demand — absolutely.
Light dawns over marble head. It only took her eight years to figure this out.
Todd’s family is nothing like her family. She may have “known” it before but there’s “knowing” and “understanding.” I get the impression Andi finally understands.
yes, seeing todds warmhearted family+home in contrast to her own mom/home brings out some not so nice truths.
btw, do we know anything about andi´s father? from what i remember, andi´s mom had her rather early as well and it was very clearly implied that she regretted it – no wonder she all but talked andi into giving her kid up instead of encouraging her in a moment of panic. if andi´s dad abandonned his girlfriend short after birth it would kinda explain her behaviour…..explain, but not justify.
I get the feeling that Andi thought on some level that all families were like hers, and that seemingly happy families were just better at concealing their resentment of each other. And she just realized that her mother isn’t just failing to cover up flaws everyone has, but is genuinely a bad person. That’s going to sting.
Backgrounds like that are done in Photoshop with a custom brush I made. It’s a texture derived from greyscale watercolor washes. I lay down a flat color then draw different shades/tones over it until I get the look I want.
Probably not. She might be with someone or just doing Christmas solo. But I doubt Patricia is one for unnecessary drama. So she probably won’t show up uninvited.
Sorry, Andi. I’ve had this kind of reveal with my own family of origin. It sucks. Luckily if you have had the experience to be around a decent family you have other people to become family with.
When you don’t have kids it’s a lot easier to live with blinders on…though a number of people still do that even after their children are born falsely believing their kids actually *benefit* by these unhealthy relationships. Part of me hopes Andi and her mom can mend their relationship, but that isn’t always realistic. It takes 2 parties to do and most people who are mentally unhealthy enough to be emotional abusers (which we’ve been seeing glimpses of Andi’s mom being) rarely change…or they do it when it’s too late.
She seemed to be afraid that, just because they now disliked her, they’d dislike Amanda and so she came to shelter her daughter… purportedly… I still say she knew the people in question and should have had no fear at all. She just wasn’t thinking. At least, she was fearing for herself…
Actually she *can*. Been there myself. Fucked up a number of good (and potentially great) relationships with that kind of mental block. If the people closest to you hurt you, you come to expect worse from people you haven’t know as long. I just caught myself apologizing to the kindest friends the other day for “daring to” cry in front of them (and both told me to stop and gave me a hug). I have continuously had to mentally check myself to stop worrying they were going to talk shit about me behind my back after. There was a point in my life I wouldn’t have even cried due to fear—despite the fact these ladies have been nothing but kind, gentle spirits. Then I would have gone home and taken the emotion out on myself in a destructive way. This is what it is like.
As much as I can’t stand Andi, I don’t think she is. Have to give credit where credit lies, she realizes or at least is currently realizing that she was and is currently in the wrong. You won’t see anyone not drawing porn on tumblr admitting they’re wrong when they are. They just double down.
I don’t think you realize tumblr has many, many different sub-groups, as expected of a group that contains literally millions of people.
Perspective, friend. Perspective.
Anyway, she’s an emotional abuse victim who projected onto her daughter sub-consciously. She was trying to protect her daughter from things that were not there.
I first read this page without colours, now, with them, I see Andi’s mother in the background. That makes the source of her turmoil all the more obvious.
Doing that would be pretty dumb considering Patricia was clear about not wanting anything to do with Amanda, but then this is Andi we are speaking off so I would not put it past her to try and force a meeting anyway.
The Court of Higher Opinion is harder on Andi than Andi is on herself. Really I think at some point Andi better talk to someone about this whole “Amanda Adoption Issue” because Andi’s clearly not helping herself (As in I think I’m spotting emotional strain/anxiety) by keeping it the dark, Her Mom is obviously not much help at all considering we have heard jack squat from her since Andi reclaimed Amanda, and the Smith House can’t really offer good emotional support with a clear head. (Momma Smith is a champ but I feel like there’s still some sore feelings that need attention before everything’s square between them all)
Hey, I know this is short notice, but Saturday is the Extra Life charity fundraiser to benefit kids in the hospital — a lot of people will be running 24-hour gaming marathons, and I’m a participant this year!
Won’t be able to livestream (our internet is too unreliable right now), but my nephews and I will be playing games most of the day and I’ll try to get short highlights vids posted on my YouTube channel here and there.
It’s my first official kind of fundraiser — I mean, I started Tiny Box Tim Day, which did raise a little money, but it’ll be a while before that could be considered anything like official. I’m excited but also nervous.
I hope you’ll give it a look, and consider donating. My donations go toward Seattle Children’s Hospital.
http://www.extra-life.org/participant/Arkylie
(Plan has switched to getting vids posted ahead of time, interspersed with videos recorded on that day. More game content for viewers, including my Saints Row music video.)
It’s 3:30, and we’ve raised $27 so far. Also, the sheer attempt at getting videos up all day has pretty much doubled the number of videos that are on my account.
I don’t think it’ll be difficult to make it until midnight, but getting videos up fast enough without breaking stride, that’s the part I’m struggling with. Still, we’re having fun and raising money for a good cause 😀
I think this is the last time I’ll update you guys, but the fundraiser will continue this whole week (for me, at least), and we just bumped up to $127, just one dollar shy of the original goal.
I kind of imagined a bunch of people donating small amounts. Turns out, not counting the $15 from an account tied to mine, to be two people (so far), one of whom donated $10 and the other $100. One of them’s from my extended family (but not one I interact with very often). I’m still kinda in shock because I don’t think I honestly expected to make my goal.
Anyway, I’ll be posting game vids the rest of the week, and hoping to see that number go up further. But even if this is the cap, I’m proud to have been able to help the hospital provide for needy families 😀
Sum total for the week: $169. That’s counting a friend who signed up for Extra Life as well, because that’s how the website counts donations. The donations directly to my account add up to $127.78, just 22 cents shy of my original goal (which is kinda cool, actually).
I’m glad to have had a chance to help Seattle Children’s Hospital, even if it came last-minute and had me scrambling all week and stuff. Hope next year I can livestream 😀
I love how you weave in things the community has been discussing as in-character realizations. Dunno whether you planned them that way or worked it out from things we said, but you do it a LOT, and it’s really cool.
I think it’s the usual thing where audience ends up discussing things that are a center of dramatic tension and important subtext, which is INEVITABLY going to come up the comic anyway.
It’s not very common for me to re-direct things based on community feedback (although it HAS happened). In most cases it’s a simple matter of the community discussion organically working towards where I was headed anyway.
She’s finally realized that she’s not really doing this for her daughter. Andi was doing this for her.
No, she just projected her experiences with her mom and subconsciously expected to need to protect and cheer up Amanda as Smiths would be as awful to her as she knew her mom would be.
Yet as she realized,they’ve never been like her Mom. She knew that. She’s known that for years. And I still don’t believe that Andi’s Mom is as bad as she’s making her out to be.
Also,it just occured to me. Patricia might not wanna see Amanda because she feels guilty that she had a hand in the adoption. Sure at the time,she saw it as a good thing for her kid to not have to grow up so friggin’ fast when she obviously wasn’t emotionally ready,but she probably does feel some guilt.
As we’ve seen several times – none of the characters focused on in this story (which shows how well written it is!) is completely one-sided. Patricia is probably feeling guilty, but also firmly believes what she said – that a child at 17 would have ruined their lives, and would still negatively affect Andi’s life. What she did in convincing Andi to give up Amanda so fast was wrong, and I do blame her for not allowing the Smiths to have some of that conversation, but I doubt she is purely a monster. I still have a feeling there was some abuse there though – Patricia sounds just too – resentful of having to be a mother for there not to have been some.
Well,yes. It would had. Especially when Andi was not ready emotionally or financially to have a child. She’s barely ready now to be a Mom. Even if she’s kinda good at being a parent.
None of what she’s done so far even remotely suggests abuse. I mean for crying out loud,am I really supposed to trust someone who lied to people she ‘cared’ about that their relative was dead and gave them tree ashes?!
Actually, her assuming the Smiths would reject Amanda, as well as generally assuming they’d be as unfriendly and unforgiving as Todd has been (who we’ve seen has had anger issues pretty much his whole life, whereas his parents have been shown to be the polar opposite so far.) is a big red flag for abuse. People who have been abused tend to see the worst in others (and we know Todd was abused pre-Smiths, so there’s the anger issues explained.). They also tend to have trust issues, impulse control issues, control issues in general, aversion to change, trouble building and maintaining meaningful relationships, and many also have abandonment issues. Andi has shown several of those signs.
Uh huh….I don’t see the friggin’ connection. Patricia hasn’t even done anything actually abusive. It feels like Andi was being just paranoid.
And quite frankly,that doesn’t always mean she’s been abused.
I want to see it written out that Andi was abused. Hints are not good when it comes to abuse. At all. If you wanna prove a character has been abused. Ya need to spell it out for someone.
Refusing to be with Andi when she went and got Amanda, all but outright accusing Andi of ruining her life by existing, pressuring her into the who thing with giving Amanda away in the first place, and possibly having been the one to come up with the ‘Amanda is dead’ lie (I doubt very much that Andi’s the one who came up with that. She doesn’t seem the type.), none of that’s abusive? NONE of that raises any red flags with you? I know you’re bound and determined to see Andi as a one-sided villain here, but come on… There’s a difference between ‘not enough evidence’ and ‘refusing to see the writing on the wall’
…..she never has said that or even came up with the lie! Andi did! All by herself and she never even told Patricia. Heck Patricia thought that Todd knew Amanda was alive and didn’t want to look.
She never told Andi she was a burden,but told an unprepared teenage mother that she wasn’t ready. When she obviously wasn’t ready to have a kid.
And she might not wanna see Amanda because she felt possibly guilty about having a hand in the adoption. For crying out loud,Andi hasn’t even given a clear story about that. She told Todd her Mom was pushing. But told Mari that she just suggested it. Sounds like a giant lie.
So yes,there is NO EVIDENCE that Patricia is an abuser.
Also,Andi very much came up with the lie. On the friggin’ fly when Todd came in to ask about the baby. It might have been a panic or it might not have been. But she did come up with it herself.
Until we get some clear proof,let’s stop assuming Patricia is an abuser.
While I tend to agree with “innocent until proven guilty,” I also know from working with children for years that it takes very few red flags to raise questions of abuse. Even with physical abuse, the abuser is often good enough that few red flags are raised, but those few need to be acted upon before it’s too late (I saw a doctor once say that if they see a child that they suspect is being abused, the next time they see that child, they are almost always dead).
Does that mean Patricia really was abusive? I don’t know. Not every red flag turns out to be abuse, and these may not be.
But those of us who work with children a lot are often specifically instructed to watch for the smallest signs of abuse, because it can have such terrible consequences, and so we may be more ready to think that.
And those who have been abused themselves almost certainly see the red flags that line up with their experience, and are therefore perhaps more likely to think that too.
All of that to say, I can see both sides. But I just don’t know yet.
This is why I want to meet Patricia. I am not willing to toss out judgement right now. Is she stubborn and unyielding? Yes, yes she is, but that is not the same as abusive. Did she plant the seed into Andi’s head? Absolutely. But again, this is not the same as abusive. I just need to meet her before I decide.
@pointe4jesus
She hasn’t given any red flags. The one who has is Andi. Paranoid,emotionally manipulative and making people uncomfortable as heck.
I saw a couple flags. Not supporting your daughter bringing home your daughter is a flag. It’s cruel to the daughter and very cold and cruel to your granddaughter.
Also, pressuring your daughter into adopting out her child (without even talking to the child’s father) right after the daughter births is another big fat flag.
Women (especially minors) are very vulnerable during and after birth. To push anyone to make such a life-altering decision on the fly in such a state is cruel. If she was really doing it for Andi’s/Amanda’s benefit, she’d have either brought it up before Andi became a hormone soup or left it alone. Any woman who has actually gone through birthing should know better and is an emotionally-abusive ass to pull such a stunt.
Dotcom,she wasn’t pressuring her. Andi said she couldn’t be a mom. So she suggested it for the benefit of Andi.
Also,who said she left the hospital? Who said she didn’t leave the room so Todd and her could talk. For cripes sake. And I don’t remember Dave ever mentioning that she never brought Andi home. Where did he say this? Where?
We have 0 proof. Her story changes from person to person about what happened. And quite frankly. All she’s guilty of is suggesting adoption to a panicked child who felt she couldn’t emotionally handle being a mother.
We don’t know what she said but we know it was about adoption. Even bringing it up after a birth is highly inappropriate. A good mother would not let her daughter do that—especially not before talking the boyfriend (unless he’s some sort of abusive monster).
And she pretty much ditched Andi after Andi said she was going to get Amanda back. That’s also not good parent behavior.
Telling someone they’re paranoid or over sensitive or over thinking or in general making them second guess their feelings and thoughts is known as gaslighting, which is a type of emotional and mental abuse. Andi is constantly second guessing herself. As a person who suffered that sort of abuse constantly from my ex boyfriend I can see it in her immensely. Someone in her life has told her she’s stupid and that she doesn’t know what’s best for her own life.
It’s very clear to me Andi has suffered emotional and mental abuse heavily.
Except we have no real proof. For crying out loud,we know nothing about Patricia. Nothing about what Andi does really comes off as being abused. Quite frankly,she’s just paranoid as all out and has done quite a few manipulative things herself.
Like the emotional manipulation she pulled on Todd. The time she tried to rekindle their relationship after telling him “Oh hey,the baby I told you was dead isn’t dead. Those ashes were tree ashes….wanna get back together?”
Or before that how she abandoned Amanda who promptly had a panic attack!
You keep forgetting how Andi’s mom pretty much told her she wasn’t being at all supportive of her getting Amanda back. That’s a shitty parent/grandparent behavior. Unless Andi is some kind of malicious monster (and from what we’ve seen she’s made dumb choices, but owns up to them) there’s no good reason for her mom to be nasty like that.
I totally agree with you, Spring Pop. I think gaslighting is worse than just physical abuse. It really fucks up the way you see the world, your feelings and yourself. Unfortunately, there is little child protection services can do to stop that (and other forms of emotional abuse) alone.
No, gaslighting is when you intentionally cause someone, through your words and actions, to doubt their own sanity. Telling someone they are being paranoid when evidence suggests they are being paranoid is not gaslighting. It may or may not be insensitive depending on the situation, but its absolutely possible for people to be paranoid or overly sensitive or to overthink things, so it is not necessarily wrong to bring up that point, the circumstances matter.
As to Andi and Patricia, we know that Patricia was certainly not supportive of Andi keeping the baby or with her going back to get the baby. And its certainly implied that Patricia has emotional issues with having, herself, been a too young mother, which could certainly have bled over into how Andi percieves herself. But we have no evidence so far of outright physical or emotional abuse towards Andi by Patricia. It certainly remains a possibility, and given Andi’s behavior I wouldn’t say its unlikely, but its also possible for messed up people not to be messed up because of their parents, or even if that contributes not to be malicious in nature.
We don’t (yet) know the degree to which Patricia influenced Andi towards adoption. Was it Patricia who brought it up or Andi? Did she go along with it because Andi was behaving in a way that indicated she didn’t want to keep the baby or did she push her towards it while Andi was merely having doubts? At the very least, looking back, it seems that at least SOME of Patricia’s intentions were altruistic and loving, not wanting to see her daughter go down a path that she herself believes led to a lesser quality of life.
But what we DO know is that Andi decided, on her own or with influence from her mother, to do an atrocious thing and fake Amanda’s death for incredibly selfish reasons – so she wouldn’t lose Todd. She COULD have let Todd and his family take the baby, and we have every reason to believe she knew they were loving and supportive, but in doing so she knew she couldn’t stay with Todd because that would mean being a mother. She choose to give up Amanda in such a way as to try and stay with Todd, betraying him and his family in an enormous way. And we have no evidence at this point to suggest that that was Patricia’s idea. Maybe it was, maybe it wasn’t, but for now, that burden lies squarely on Andi’s shoulders.
Giving up a child for adoption is, I have no doubt, an incredibly difficult choice in most cases, and can absolutely be done with the best interests of the child in mind. But unless Andi had reason to believe that Todd having custody of Amanda would put her in danger, it was absolutely wrong of her to prioritize her own desires over Todd’s desire to be a father and Amandas right to be raised by her father.
I’m just going to leave these links here showing a little bit of what type of parent Patricia is/was.
https://selkiecomic.com/comic/selkie589/
https://selkiecomic.com/comic/selkie590/
So, gentle confirmation for the ‘Andi is an evil schemer’ crowd: she WAS genuinely worried about Amanda and insisted on coming for HER sake.
It wasn’t the smartest decision, as are most of Andi’s, but it was made with the best intentions.
Yep. Proof that it was parental worry. Trust me I get worried when my daughter is with her grandparents and I’m not there cause I worry she will need me.
Also tomorrow is my birthday! Yah!
Happy Pre-Birthday!
*squee* thank you . ?
Your birthday corresponds with Extra Life charity fundraiser this year 😀
I’m not making a comment about mothers in general, but this is my experience with one specific mother:
My sister-in-law used to be incredibly anxious whenever the kids were over our way. At first she wouldn’t let them come at all; then she was willing to let us see them, but not sit them; finally we could sit them, but they couldn’t spend the night; then they could spend the night but had to call her every night, and one time when we missed a call she got so worried that my brother ended up canceling future plans for a while until she could calm down.
Nowadays she’s much less worried when they miss a day. (Me, I live with my parents and tell them where I’m going almost every time I go someplace, and I still can’t imagine calling them every single night if I’m away from home.)
But the thing my mom and I noticed was, this had zero to do with the kids’ emotional well-being. It had everything to do with their mother’s emotional instability. (She is unstable in other ways as well.) The kids barely thought of her when they were apart, and I swear it was better for their emotional stability when they weren’t reminded of her nightly. Getting a breather from her over-controlling mindset seemed to be a welcome relief for them, even when they were really young. And the only time I saw homesickness or worry about the separation, it seemed to be “I’m worried that my mom might get upset if I’m away too long” — not the kid’s own worries or desires, except as they applied to the mom.
You make a very good point and when i was an educator we saw this a lot with drop offs. I know for me it is more I am worried cause daughter has communication and expression difficulties. And last time we left her for two days she stopped eating cause of anxiety. We had to video chat to calm her down.
Now with Amanda’s abandomment issues i would have suggested a video chat with Andi when she was at the party to help ease any anxiety
Hm… I still see it more like she is realizing she put her own fears out there when none were truly for Amanda even though she THOUGHT they were. She knew the Smiths, she knew her mom. Why the heck would she not realize her mom was the ostracizing one? No idea… Andi was being a bit blind again, imo.
I don’t see Andi as an evil schemer, I see her more as immature and selfish. Not only were her fears about Amanda and the Smith’s pretty much completely without merit based on everything we (and she) knows about them, but there were ways to address it which didn’t involve forcing herself in to the situation. There are even ways she could have gotten herself included. I honestly believe Todd probably would have gone along with it if Andi had just honestly said to him, “I know you and your family are good people, but this is Amanda’s first Christmas together with me and I’d feel a lot better and it would mean a lot to me if we could be together on Christmas Eve too. I know that thing might be a little awkward, but I do think it would be good for Amanda too if both her parents were there.” A request not a demand, an explanation not an ultimatum.
That little nuance is the distinction between the entitled mindset and the social mindset. Request (and be ready to accept refusal) rather than manipulate and demand — absolutely.
Light dawns over marble head. It only took her eight years to figure this out.
Todd’s family is nothing like her family. She may have “known” it before but there’s “knowing” and “understanding.” I get the impression Andi finally understands.
yes, seeing todds warmhearted family+home in contrast to her own mom/home brings out some not so nice truths.
btw, do we know anything about andi´s father? from what i remember, andi´s mom had her rather early as well and it was very clearly implied that she regretted it – no wonder she all but talked andi into giving her kid up instead of encouraging her in a moment of panic. if andi´s dad abandonned his girlfriend short after birth it would kinda explain her behaviour…..explain, but not justify.
I get the feeling that Andi thought on some level that all families were like hers, and that seemingly happy families were just better at concealing their resentment of each other. And she just realized that her mother isn’t just failing to cover up flaws everyone has, but is genuinely a bad person. That’s going to sting.
I love this page so much. May I ask how you did the blue colors? I mean what kind of pen, ink and medium?
Backgrounds like that are done in Photoshop with a custom brush I made. It’s a texture derived from greyscale watercolor washes. I lay down a flat color then draw different shades/tones over it until I get the look I want.
Andi’s mom isn’t gonna show up at the house, is she?
Probably not. She might be with someone or just doing Christmas solo. But I doubt Patricia is one for unnecessary drama. So she probably won’t show up uninvited.
Sorry, Andi. I’ve had this kind of reveal with my own family of origin. It sucks. Luckily if you have had the experience to be around a decent family you have other people to become family with.
When you don’t have kids it’s a lot easier to live with blinders on…though a number of people still do that even after their children are born falsely believing their kids actually *benefit* by these unhealthy relationships. Part of me hopes Andi and her mom can mend their relationship, but that isn’t always realistic. It takes 2 parties to do and most people who are mentally unhealthy enough to be emotional abusers (which we’ve been seeing glimpses of Andi’s mom being) rarely change…or they do it when it’s too late.
She seemed to be afraid that, just because they now disliked her, they’d dislike Amanda and so she came to shelter her daughter… purportedly… I still say she knew the people in question and should have had no fear at all. She just wasn’t thinking. At least, she was fearing for herself…
Actually she *can*. Been there myself. Fucked up a number of good (and potentially great) relationships with that kind of mental block. If the people closest to you hurt you, you come to expect worse from people you haven’t know as long. I just caught myself apologizing to the kindest friends the other day for “daring to” cry in front of them (and both told me to stop and gave me a hug). I have continuously had to mentally check myself to stop worrying they were going to talk shit about me behind my back after. There was a point in my life I wouldn’t have even cried due to fear—despite the fact these ladies have been nothing but kind, gentle spirits. Then I would have gone home and taken the emotion out on myself in a destructive way. This is what it is like.
Andi is kinda tumblr incarnate now
As much as I can’t stand Andi, I don’t think she is. Have to give credit where credit lies, she realizes or at least is currently realizing that she was and is currently in the wrong. You won’t see anyone not drawing porn on tumblr admitting they’re wrong when they are. They just double down.
What is tumblr incarnate, I’m curious ? My own experience with Tumblr involves…..hrrm, let’s just say you really could find anything on it……;)
I don’t think you realize tumblr has many, many different sub-groups, as expected of a group that contains literally millions of people.
Perspective, friend. Perspective.
Anyway, she’s an emotional abuse victim who projected onto her daughter sub-consciously. She was trying to protect her daughter from things that were not there.
lol she’s not an emotional abuse victim. She’s whiny. We’ve got nothing to suggest she was emotionally abused.
That term is thrown around so much it’s lost all meaning.
I first read this page without colours, now, with them, I see Andi’s mother in the background. That makes the source of her turmoil all the more obvious.
Eyup, best not bring her “home” for the holidays.
Doing that would be pretty dumb considering Patricia was clear about not wanting anything to do with Amanda, but then this is Andi we are speaking off so I would not put it past her to try and force a meeting anyway.
The Court of Higher Opinion is harder on Andi than Andi is on herself. Really I think at some point Andi better talk to someone about this whole “Amanda Adoption Issue” because Andi’s clearly not helping herself (As in I think I’m spotting emotional strain/anxiety) by keeping it the dark, Her Mom is obviously not much help at all considering we have heard jack squat from her since Andi reclaimed Amanda, and the Smith House can’t really offer good emotional support with a clear head. (Momma Smith is a champ but I feel like there’s still some sore feelings that need attention before everything’s square between them all)