(Working on colors, but may not be able to finish before bed so it’ll probably be updated later tonight)
We haven’t seen much of Marta and Antoine and even less of their significant others (this is actually Richard’s first on-screen appearance), so some callback links may be in order here. The big guy with Marta is her fiancee Steve and Antoine is embracing his boyfriend Richard, who seems to never forget a debt.
Also, I’d just like to take a moment to express my thanks to everyone for being so talkative in the comic comments. I never really expected the previous strip to ignite so much conversation but holy crap you all brought it in spades. I’m STILL reading through them all. :O
Also, I kind of liked how the linework looked on this one sans color and would like to keep it available for viewing, so here is the lineart version for posterity.
Ok I’m going to take a step back and put my personal feelings aside and address Andi’s issues from the perspective of helping her primarily. It’s been debated at length how Andi’s childhood and teen years were abusive. So I’m not going to actually touch on those details, the what’s and how are actually rather irrelevant. The question is this: what are the results? What behavioural and emotional issue’s has Andi developed from that and the means by which they may be improved?
I’ve been thinking on this since a reply I made the other day and Andi’s issues primarily boil down to how she deals with stressful and unpleasant situations. Well, she doesn’t. Avoidance and disassociation are her survival methods. She will do anything to not even think about unpleasant things until she has no other option. This is harmful to her primarily in the sense she can’t assess damage or process grief. Let me breakdown some examples of this from the story.
Andi avoid think about stressful things so she won’t think about an argument once the actual talking has finished. Previous strips have Todd directly stating that the adoption was far from the only thing, that they argued and disagrees constantly over everything from basic things like food and TV to big things like marriage and adoption. To which Andi seems shaken and taken aback, like she never really thought about how these were actually really big issues. To Todd these disagreements added up, to Andi they are individual moments forgotten the moment they finished leaving the underlying problem unsolved. This would also lead to her getting frustrated with Todd for blowing an incident out of proportion because to her they are not connected and to Todd it a repeat behaviour that’s still unresolved.
That’s how it keeps her from assessing damage but what about processing grief. Well you can’t move on from a problem without understanding it. Not forgiving it, not finding peace with it, Just the simple act of understanding what happened and all the details of how it affects you now. Andi is demonstrating this with Todd, yes she knows they have broken up but she has given no thought to what that actually means. What she’s lost and what’s changed in detail. She is avoiding thinking about it, which means she can’t grieve the loss and process past it.
This is in some ways also demonstrated with her comments about adoption being babysitting. She never accepted the reality. She probably very quickly internalised the idea that she could go get her baby back at any time and that it was just babysitting. Once she had that idea securely in place she didn’t have to think about what was going on around her. Her response to Todd’s grief was most likely a little internal debate of whether she should go get her child becoming frozen with incision and unresolved grief and ultimately not actually thinking about anything happening in the present moment. Her deer trapped in headlights moments are as much a defensive behaviour as her avoidance. The world moves on even if she doesn’t do anything so most cases all she has to do is be silent and the problem goes away, or more she no longer forced to acknowledge it. Nothing in her life up till now has forced her to act past panic mode.
To be honest most the accusations of her being manipulative breakdown when you look at in from the idea that her actions all aim to avoid an immediate unpleasant experience. That conscious manipulation of someone requires you to think ahead and consider how your actions will affect there behaviour. Andi just isn’t that self-aware or understanding of her situation. Its knee jerk reactions not calculated manipulation that once again comes from her not considering what she doing beyond avoiding the immediate stress.
Now the solution, well therapy having a professional work with her and helping her learn to deal with stress would be the obvious first step. But on a more imminent and personal level what can she and those around her can do to help. Don’t feed the avoidance and disassociation basically. The more I think about it the more hiding the reality’s of there broken relationship from Amanda is harmful to Andi. The fact she wasn’t invited shocked her because she hadn’t thought about what not being Todds girlfriend meant around the holidays. And I fear the fact he’s conceded to her coming means she is going to shelve the thought until it comes up again next holiday. Her survival method is brace through the unavoidable and don’t think about anything once you can avoid doing so and what they are doing is enabling that very self-destructive behaviour.
While this is really well thought out, and I understand the perspective, I do think it all depends on the amount of notice, the time available to explain to Amanda and her reaction. If it is really short notice, and Amanda has been expecting ‘mom’ to come, it might not give enough time to give a good explanation to her as to why mom is not coming. This is especially important when getting the difference between Selkie and Amanda’s relationship and Amanda’s parents’ relationship. That isn’t a conversation you can have right on the spot and requires time, and perhaps a councilor, to help explain.
There is also the thought of suddenly forcing Andi to deal with things she normally has to avoid. It has sorted been noted or hinted at that, at least before the Amanda issue, Todd’s parents were quite supportive of Andi and liked her. It is hard finding others in Andi’s life that she can get advice/support from like that in Andi’s life, from what we have seen. I am not saying that she should be encouraged, but that there needs to be support there to help make sure the reaction goes through a healthy outlet.
In general, while I don’t want Andi and Todd to get back together, I can still see her as being part of the ‘family’ per say. There are people with less familial ties to the family than what she has that are considered family and invited to events. Yes, she did do some pretty bad things, and should own up to them, but that happens in all families, blood relations or not. She may have to earn her trust back, but I am saying give her a chance and the knowledge how to do so before completely dismissing her.
Really I think a psychologist or councilor should have been called in to talk to Andi, Amanda, Todd and Selkie as soon as they found out Amanda was related to Todd. It is a pretty heavy issue, and with two ‘recently’ adopted kids in the mix it would be good to have someone outside of it all to check in on them all.
There Are No Psychologists. Known fact 😀
I do think the short notice is the problem here — and that stems from neither party thinking through what the other party might be thinking.
You know, all these calls for Todd’s family to be the support structure in Andi’s life… I think I’ve worked out why it bugs me so much. Because it’s sounding an awful lot like what I’ve read in the many books on domestic violence I’ve studied the past few years:
“Hey, Jenny, I know Bob beat you up, but you have to realize he’s going through some tough times right now, and he had a bad childhood, and he’s really sorry, and if he doesn’t get the kind of support that he needs he’s going to go to pieces. Can’t you find it in your heart to get back together with him, at least for now?”
Or, similarly:
“Hey, Mike, I know Kirsten lied about you to your entire family, and made them think you cheated on her, and she still hasn’t come clean about that or anything, but you have to understand, X and Y and Z, and how is Kirsten supposed to learn how to not be a backstabbing b*tch if she doesn’t have some good role models in her life? You gotta take her back, man.”
Or:
“Hey, Robin, I’m not saying you need to get back together with Tina, but you’ve got to understand XYZ, and if you turn your back on her now, well, she’s got no one, and you know she’s been suicidal in the past; what’s she gonna do if you just cut her out of your life like this? Show some compassion.”
…see, the thing is, not only is this kind of talk frequently levied at victims of abuse, BY friends and family members (some of whom aren’t taking the abuse seriously), to get the victim to stay with their abuser, but it’s also acting on the assumption that the abuser’s status is somehow the victim’s fault/responsibility.
If you’ve been in a relationship with a person who abuses you, and you get out of that relationship, and that causes the abuser to harm or even kill themselves, THAT IS NOT YOUR FAULT. It’s not your responsibility to stick it out and try to help them to get to a better state. In fact, it’s a statistical fact that sticking it out makes them LESS likely to change. (The few abusers who change do so almost exclusively because they completely lost access to their victim. Some abusers who looked like they might’ve changed lose all that potential progress because the victim goes “Yay!” and, not knowing any better, comes back way before that progress is really secured.)
Now, Andi’s behavior was certainly harmful to the family. I’m debating with myself whether it falls under the heading of “abuse” or not. But they are certainly her victims. And trying to make the VICTIMS responsible for the well being of the person who hurt them is, well, all kinds of wrong.
They get to choose whether they even want to maintain ties with her AT ALL. They get to decide how much access is reasonable, and what sort of access. They’re the ones in charge. If they decide to stick it out and attempt to mend bridges, more power to them.
But she’s not giving them that choice. Oblivious or deliberate, she is forcing her way into the tent. And if she can’t be held responsible for the way she does that, then the other adults here — the ones who are more rational, who aren’t tied up in adolescent behavior patterns — they should be the wall to say no, that isn’t what is going to happen. To set boundaries for Andi to learn from.
Because she sure ain’t figuring out the boundaries on her own.
This is precisely my view. Regardless of how you feel about Andi it is in no way shape or form Todd’s or his familys responsibility to care for her.
I am sorry that I came across that way. I certainly didn’t mean that she should be allowed access to inflict more hurt. I more was concerned that if there are repercussions on her mental state from “suddenly” not being able to be there with them on Christmas Eve on Amanda (since Amanda is left alone with her). Not saying that it is a good excuse, but I think it warrants a more balanced approach rather than to one extreme or another, being wide open arms acceptance vs total avoidance.
Should this have never happened in the first place, yes. Todd, and the rest of the family, should have sat down with Andi without the children around and discussed this and how to approach it. Unfortunately that didn’t happen in time. As such, I don’t really think there is a good way to go about it. I just vote for a 3rd party mediator at this point.
I agree on the balance thing — it’s harmful to Amanda to completely cut Andi out of the picture (which would likely cut Amanda out of the picture, given her loyalty to her mom right now), and it’s harmful to the family to just let Andi worm her way in to major events with no thought of how the rest of them might feel.
Heck, what if one of the Christmas traditions used to be laying a tiny treat or present next to the urn?
The balance seemed to be fairly well achieved before Christmas came up: We’re arranging play dates and such, spending some time with both parents, giving Amanda and Selkie more time to learn to get along, etc. etc.
That doesn’t imply inviting Andi to major functions. That’s the imbalance part right now. The family is free to invite her, but no consideration was given to their free choice; regardless of Andi’s motivation or the factors that cause Andi to do this, Andi overrode the volition of the entire family.
A mediator might well be a good thing for them to look into.
Amen. That about sums it up.
That… would be a neat Christmas present! From the orphanage head lady.
And I desperately want Amanda to be told the truth about who really left her and lied about her being dead. And of course her… other… grandmother… but I think we can all guess that she would NOT take either well. I shall sit back and simply wait for the day to come at its pace.
Avoidance behaviors being such a huge factor in my life right now, I am watching Andi with intense interest. I know how unhealthy it is to ignore the things that need to be done and to just try your best to distract yourself from thinking about how the “need to be done” pile is just getting bigger and bigger.
I definitely think that letting her stay in the “things are basically okay” mindset when they’re not okay is not helping her in the long run. From my experience, things get accomplished only when either (a) everything is too uncomfortable to maintain the distraction state (e.g. the fridge gets cleaned when it’s too smelly or there’s no room for new things; bits of the house get cleaned/decluttered when a family member makes too big of a fuss over them not being clean), or (b) people actually work together on a project, which doesn’t happen often. Doesn’t happen enough. Mostly happens when there’s a serious structural problem that we can’t kludge a bandaid for (e.g. hole in the floor gets fixed if it’s in the major path and a simple board over the top won’t solve the problem enough).
I don’t think the distraction state allows progress to happen. It’s more like treading water when the lifeguard hasn’t actually seen that you need help.
Andi panics easily and her first instinct is to run.
To demonstrate: page 635, during the ‘meet the octopus’ event at the aquarium. Selkie approaches Amanda, they bicker, Selkie calls Todd over so the girls can continue their “my parent is better than your parent” fight – and Andi, seeing Todd, bolts before he can see her. She’s back two pages later, but she still abandoned her child in a crowd to try and avoid a situation she didn’t want to be in. She didn’t mean any harm and felt bad about upsetting Amanda, but her panic response still overtook her and caused distress for others.
Yeah… That running away and abandoning Amanda — again — and the giving her up to begin with and lying to Todd et al about it are her top two big mistakes in my opinion. They are horrible things to do, at all, to anyone at any time.
I agree Andi’s issues are no longer Todd and his family’s problems.
I do have one thing to add, usually people who avoid problems and conflict are people who’ve been abused or taught to keep their head down for fear of retaliation. I have a coworker who came from an extremely abusive relationship and she avoids conflict and hides constantly. She disobey rules at work because she doesn’t want to tell a customer it’s something we aren’t allowed to do. And if we have an issue with her work ethic, she hides and pretends like she can’t hear us. It annoys us all very much and we don’t like it one bit. We do understand why she does it though, because not only was her ex abusive emotionally and physically, so are her parents. This is how she was raised and it puts a lot of pressure on us, even though it has nothing to do with us personally. It doesn’t excuse her actions, because we’ve all sat down and explained to her how her cowardly approach causes us damage. How at night she constantly calls the police which gives our store a thousand dollar fine because she’s too scared to ask a customer to leave or a customer in general makes her uncomfortable. She’s absolutely ridiculous.
Even so, we know this isn’t something we can suddenly just alter. This was how her life was. She thinks she’s not allowed to tell people no or talk back to them. While it seems like she hasn’t changed at all, she’s made very, very microscopic steps to try and change her ways. We’re still annoyed by it, but we all know it’s not really her entire fault so we deal with it.
Yes, she makes work exponentially harder by how she acts and how she tries to hide when it gets busy or a rowdy customer shows up, she abandons me alone sometimes to deal with things solo. The difference is, I can handle these things and she cannot. She will have a mental breakdown and cry. While I fully believe she should not be working her and it’s unfair to the rest of us to have to deal with it and suffer for it, I don’t hate her as a person and I feel bad for her and I know she can’t suddenly change and that it takes a lot for things to get through to her.
She lies a lot too and we catch her in the lies. She thinks she’s going to get in loads of trouble if she tells us the truth. Funny thing is, it’s not even anything she needs to lie about. She just thinks she needs to lie to sabe herself. Even how she walks and carries herself is someone who shies away from people and wants to protect herself. Her whole body language is someone who is afraid of simply living.
Like I said, it’s a tough situation and she SEEMS manipulative to an extreme, but I don’t think she consciously does these things. She’s just a messed up person because when she was young her parents messed her up and then her boyfriend made her lower than dirt self esteem go even lower.
If my coworkers and I treated her poorly it’d only make it worse.
I counter with the idea you tolerating the behaviour and allowing it to “work” only discourages change. That’s been Andi, she doesn’t change till the situation forces her to. It’s not pleasant and the resistance and panic can come across as “we are making it worse” But the bottom line is survival behaviours that make things worse not better will never change unless A. The person responsible realises what they are doing and decided to specifically change that aspect. A vague I want to be better is not them realising what it is that’s wrong. And the mantra of “I’m trying” and getting lost in the frustration cycle that brings os ultimately as unhelpful as whatever behaviour they had before. Option B. People stop enabling. Now this is not the same as specifically reprimanded the behaviour or “trying to help” this is simply letting there actions meet with normal conciseness. Taking your co worker for instance. Her failings should have met with written warnings and even eventual termination. All your tolerance is doing for her is making her unemployable to any other company that isn’t pre invested in her history. So of the company folds or has lay off’s she is going to be in a lot of trouble with even less support then she may have otherwise because people have simply tolerated her behaviour and haven’t come to care about her beyond simple pity.
Well, it’s not that we don’t encourage change, we all talk to her about things she needs to change and she’s been written up for a few things, but we do not immediately default to writing her up. Her behavior is ingrained into her and it’s not something that’s entirely her fault. She’s an adult and can be held responsible for things, but being completely heartless and shutting her down is just going to make her retreat further. A coworker I like tends to do just that to her and she can’t stand him and thinks he detests her. He flat out shuts her down and tells her to get over it, which makes her even more skittish and she cries and berates herself, which usually ends up with me having to pull her aside and explain to her why she needs to change her habits while at the same time ensuring her that she useless useless garbage that deserves to be hit and talked down to.
I don’t know where the happy medium lies, I’m not going to pretend I do. I very much think my boss enables her behavior, but my coworker also makes things worse by treating her badly because she inconveniences him. My assistant manager is on my side, that something needs to happen, but he hasn’t figured out what yet. He’s the one who writes her up and usually he consults with me beforehand because he trusts me and values my opinion.
We agree that her home life is something that needs to change and that her current (not ex) boyfriend is a problem and that she allows him to dictate her schedule which causes us grief. We agree that as sad as her home life is, her boyfriend should not be involved with our work and that she should be required to be here when she’s told.
Sadly, him and I have little to no control over any of that. We don’t want her feelings hurt, but we also think everything she’s currently involved in is toxic to her. Her current boyfriend is emotionally crippling to her, but her ex and her parents have tarnished her self worth so much that she’s blind to it.
What is anyone supposed to do in a scenario like this? Pity her, it makes it worse, berate her it makes it worse. My assistant manager advised therapy to her and she cried and now thinks we think she’s insane. She’s overly sensitive, yes, but it’s not her fault she’s been abused since she was a child. Do you just tell a victim of abuse she’s an inconvenience to the rest of us because of the remnants of her abuse? Do you tell a rape victim that’s terrified of men that their emotional outbursts and ptsd is an inconvenience to others?
As it is, I do not think she should work here. But I’m not about to tell a victim they’re at fault for their messy life when the parents were the initial cause. I’ll tell her my thoughts and that she needs help and that I’ll be her friend, but I won’t tell her she deserves to be fired for involuntary actions. My boss should have not hired her to begin with, but he had no idea of these issues beforehand.
It’s a tough situation that cannot be resolved with a simple action. Yes, firing her resolves OUR issue with work, which is the main concern, but it doesn’t help her issues. I’m saying that she, as a person, not a worker, is damaged because of forces she could not control and that I would be a disgusting human being if I tried to blame her solely for her actions simply because they make my life harder. I’m not a self centered brat nor am I so one dimensional that I cannot see the bigger scope of things.
As a worker, she’s bad, but as a person she’s not. I’m saying as a person it’s not all her fault for how she is.
Well I suppose it comes down to responsibility. She is clearly not even at the “accepting there Is a problem” phase if the mere suggestion of therapy makes her cry. Her workplace is not responsible for delivering mental health care. Note is it responsible for her inability to acknowledge the problem. I have worked with people like this and in all 3 cases it boiled down to the boss saying “get professional help or you will be fired.” 2 of them did finally go get therapy and one ended up resigning instead. It may seem cruel but what it’s saying is “we know you have legitimate issues and respect that but we can’t keep you here if you’re not willing to help yourself.”
You’re missing my point. My point is, these actions aren’t her fault entirely. They are the fault of a poor childhood and abusive boyfriend. My point is her as a person. Her as a worker is entirely different. I’ve already stated that I believe she shouldn’t work here. I’m saying it would be completely irrational of me if I simply hated and blamed her for these things simply because it’s an inconvenience to me. I dislike her work ethic, yes, but I don’t hate her as a person, nor do I blame her for the things she does, because I know a lot of it isn’t her fault.
I came from an abusive relationship. Physically, mentally and emotionally. I was essentially a prisoner in my own home, not allowed to have friends and constantly monitored and abused by his parents as well. After that, I was completely at a loss. I felt useless and felt like I’d be alone forever and unloved. I treated people I cared about like garbage because my boyfriend threatened me if I did otherwise.
I apologized to those people recently, years later. One girl in particular cried and told me how sorry she was for not realizing I was being abused. I told her I didn’t expect her forgiveness because of the cruel things I said to her. We’re very good friends now.
Even FUNNIER is a guy I treated like dirt because of my ex threatening me, well we’re DATING now. We’be been together for about 4 months and he said he’s loved me since he met me and that he never thought I treated him poorly. I very much love and adore him.
I DO however have self worth issues because of my ex. I constantly apologize for trivial things. I cower sometimes and I’m paranoid. I have to have my boyfriend constantly reassuring me that he loves me and never wants to be without me. I imagine it’s very tiring to deal with and sometimes I cry suddenly because I think he must hate me for how I act.
You know what he does? Sits with me, tells me I’m beautiful and that he loves me. Tells me he knows I won’t get better in one day and that he will always be here for me and reassure me that everything is ok and that I can tell him how I feel and that he will take the small steps with me until I’m better.
So I sympathize with Andi. She made mistakes, possibly because of abuse and people shoot her down for it. I made mistakes and LOTS of people shot me down even though I TRIED to right the wrongs I didn’t want to do. It’s hurtful to see so many people assume another human being is dirt for their mistakes when they want to try and fix things.
Andi is SLOWLY working things out, but she doesn’t HAVE support like I do. My coworker doesn’t HAVE support outside of us. She has no friends and sits in her room all day.
People like this are not garbage. We are PEOPLE. Mistakes, BIG MISTAKES, happen. It doesn’t mean we meant to do it, it doesn’t mean we were malicious, it doesn’t mean we aren’t trying or don’t care and it doesn’t mean we don’t hurt when we try to say sorry and TRULY MEAN IT. And sometimes the situation is more than you think. Sometimes we feel forced, sometimes we are forced. Want an example? My ex RAPED ME when I refused to call my friend (now my current boyfriend.) a ‘dumb nigger’
I think I suffered a lot for my mistakes. I’m glad people forgave me and I don’t resent the ones who didn’t, but it still hurts me to know they think I’m dirt for something I felt like I had no control over.
I never really wanted to state why I’m so sympathetic to Andi, but I feel like it needs to be said otherwise people think I’m blindly defending her. I’m sympathetic and more willing to see if she can redeem herself because I relate to her.
Despite whose fault it be, it is up to the individual alone to change or not change, to the best of their ability, and hopefully have a group or some form of support as need and accept that support. People can try to help a person change, but they can never change a person.
The point of the thread was how can people help and how responsible ate they to the well being of somone who has wronged them. What stance or point are trying to make “Don’t hate Andi she human and not entirely responsible for her actions?” Well that was the mindset I started this thread with. We get that, we know people suffer situations like hers. The question is, what to do and who is responsible for what. Not weather Andi or your co worker is wrong or evil. Your post seems to be trying to make points that have already been established and arguing like we dont get it.
Sorry, I must have misunderstood you then. I thought we were entirely placing blame upon Andi simply because she is an adult and that she doesn’t deserve forgiveness simply because Todd and his family were hurt and that she wasn’t even remotely sorry for it.
No this thread is about identifying the behaviour issues Andi has amd how to adress them. Not blaming her for them. Not labelling them unforgivable. Just identifying what they regardless of the cause and adress what can be done by others and what Andi needs to do herself. You co worker crying at the mere suggestion of therapy is a instance of somone who is not willing to help themselves and my experience both personal and what I’ve seen of others. Admittance and acceptance that there is information fact a problem is something only they can do. That responsibility is on them. Until then nothing can be done to help because they are not receptive to be helped. All effort become insults and it’s a horrible cycle for all involved.
I would agree 100%. My parents were not abusive towards me, but they were towards my brother. Not physically, but certainly verbally. Growing up around the yelling and screaming made me do anything to avoid that state from anyone around me. I could function otherwise, but I would be completely avoidance/lie/hide emotions/everything Andi has done. To the point of marrying someone I didn’t actually love. It took a lot of therapy for me to start to be “healthy” I still have bad times where I’m “erratic” but I’m better. The marriage didn’t last btw – and Andi is not doing herself favors by trying to get back together with someone due to convience or familiarity, which it seems to be.
Putting this down here just cause, don’t take it personally though, this is a response to folks in this thread in general.
A lot of people seem to be working with the assumption that Andi is an abuse victim herself herself? Why, there has been no evidence or mention of any such in the comic so far, and while it is still possible I think it would have been mentioned or hinted at by now.
Basically people are treating the fact her mum convinced her to give the baby up for adoption and her lack of support in retrieving said child as evidence that she was a very emotionally abusive mother. Personally I think it’s a stretch to make that assumption and even if true is doesn’t really give explanation or excuse for the actions Andi took once the initial panic was over. But that’s why I said I was putting aside my personal feelings and just assuming the abuse to be not only real but as bad as everyone seems to theories. Then just look at the results. Her behaviour as depicted in the comic. Though honestly for all we know Andi just has some un diagnosed autism spectrum or who knows what and her mums just as out of her depths as anyone. We really do not know.
There are some indications that her mom was manipulative — that she had (and still has) the mindset “I know best, and if you don’t agree with my decision it is because you aren’t thinking clearly, so I will use whatever tools I have to convince you to do it anyway.”
How else do you excuse persuading a new mom — just coming down from intense pain and a flood of hormones — to make a life-changing decision on the fly, with no warning and no discussion with the dad?
But really, main thing is that a person as conflict-averse as Andi — to the point of running away from her own daughter rather than talking to a man she once had a great relationship with — is hard to imagine coming from a normal, loving household.
I would say also how easily the mother cut Andi and Amanda out of her life would indicate probably not much attachment.
Andi already didn’t want the kid though, she didn’t need much convincing I think. We don’t know 100% what was said since it was done with pictograms but the impression I got was that she told Andi she should give up the kid and that it’s her decision alone. Lying to Todd about the reason seems to be all on Andi and Patricia might not even know how exactly it went down given her recent comments.
Like, she doesn’t seem like the nicest of people but I think it’s a stretch to call anything we saw her do so far abuse.
Aww. Now this is a scene I like seeing. Especially happy couples involved. :3
Can anyone read all the stockings? And Dave, I hope they have something for Clyde lol
Six people here, three more makes Todd, Selkie and Amanda for 9, so looks like no Clyde.
No Andi either. :/ I don’t know how well that’s going to go.
Great for us. It might make a point to her. Object lessons.
especially since she most likely HAD a stocking at one point given her ‘we always spent christmas together with your family’ comment. add watching the two lovey-dovey couples smooching and cuddling all over the place right after todd burst her bubble about them totally NOT being together anymore, and things will be beyond awkward for her. honestly, she´s just torturing herself by forcing her presence on the smith family.
I have a phrase for situations like this. The Point Has Been Made on Their Bones. It means that your point has hit so hard that it’s affecting them inside and out until they can’t ignore it. I coined it over an ex and her mom who decided to trash me and I told them I was the best the ex will ever have in her life and time passed by and made that very true. My mark will never leave them and she will never have better because of life choices she made. Sad but true. Such is life.
Whether Andi realizes or not, this christmas may hit her so hard the consequences will be branded on her soul
Oh, jeez. You are totally right. This is going to be super awkward!
That makes sense though, they don’t even know she’s coming yet I think.
i agree, they seem WAY too happy for someone who knows that a person who hurt them that badly is going to be coming over… rightly or wrongly i just cannot see Mari and Theo being THAT happy… i just hope that Todd at least ATTEMPTED to call them… that would be a real dick-move if he is just going to surprise them with Andi’s presence…
Maybe we’re about to see the phone call. There’d better be one! (Do, or do not, Todd. There is no try. It’s on you to make sure they know she’s coming.)
I would think Andi wouldn’t expect one. I know she’s naive, but I don’t think she feels as though everything is normal again. Now Amanda may ask, “Where’s mom’s stocking at?” which may cause some awkward silences and rushed explanations. I sure hope Todd told everybody Andi is coming though.
Oh yeah, because it’s not just a ‘we just found out she was coming and didn’t have time’ thing, they’ve got to dance around why the guy who’s supposed to be able to see you when you’re sleeping, know when you’re awake, know when you’ve been bad or good, and yet he couldn’t find her mom.
Eh, she’s eight. She’s lived in an orphanage for the last three years, not to mention what her life was like before that. I doubt she believes in Santa Claus now, and probably never did.
That… makes me really sad.
I can’t remember exactly at what age I stopped believing, but I do remember the magic I felt when I still did. Even as a teenager, when the cousin I can’t stand and wouldn’t touch with a ten foot pole asked me if I believed in Santa, of course I said yes. No matter my personal feelings toward an individual, EVERYONE deserves Santa Claus.
I don’t know. It sounded like he wasn’t going to tell them or just drop it on them right before she came over. Pretty dumb on his part—especially since he was the one who told her she could come.
I think I can make out Amanda and Selkie’s names on the two lowest stockings – which makes sense because that’s easy arms’ reach for a kid regardless of how tall the fireplace is – and I can read ‘Steve’ on one end of the line and ‘Todd’ ‘Mari’ and ‘Theo’ on the other end of the line. Presumably Marta, Antoine and Richard are the names on the three I can’t read.
Given the number of stockings available, they probably got Clyde a gift that goes under the tree instead. (Also, they either don’t know Andi’s coming or, much less likely in my view, decided to be passive-aggressive by not giving her a stocking.)
I stand resolutely with the “Hook Clyde Up” contingent, but it’s probably for the best he doesn’t have a stocking. He’d totally pee on it.
However, Clyde would no doubt be Selkie’s BFF if she gave him a ham bone with ham still on it for Xmas dinner.
“Maybe I’ll just break one of her thumbs. It IS Christmas, after all.”
Now, now, they don’t even know Andi is coming. Her Christmas gift can wait till they know. 😛
“You big softy.”
Am I the only one who started hearing the “Ten Duel Commandments” after the first panel? It will be interesting to see what’s going to happen. I’m enjoying watching the story progress.
Love that modern plug-in artificial fire place…. Detail!
i’m not sure that it’s a fake fireplace, that could be a plug-in for the ignition / blower unit for what seems to be a natural-gas burner, one that was most likely a retro-fit unit for an old-style wood-burning fireplace, or possibly even just power for what seem to be lights in the wreathe above the mantle.. also, please note that there ISN’T any URN there anymore…
I almost forgot about Steve and Richard. It’s been a long time since either of them were seen or mentioned in this comic.
I am really loving those last two panels. All my feels… 🙂
I missed the discussion on the previous comic, so I’ll just post briefly here:
This is Selkie and Amanda’s first Christmas as half-sisters. At this point in their lives, even though they didn’t plan it, they *are* in each others’ lives. They may not always be, but they are for now. Plus, for children who celebrate it, Christmas tends to be a HUGE holiday. They will be looking to Todd and Andi for cues for how to negotiate this Christmas celebration with each other as well as how to negotiate this new relationship.
Todd and Ani have a great chance to model good behaviour for their daughters. If the two of them show that they can be in the same room together, be civil to each other, and still try to enjoy the holiday, they will help Selkie and Amanda learn how to do the same thing. If they model conflict, anger, and estrangement, they will “help” Selkie and Amanda learn how to do that.
From the comments on the last post, it seems like a lot of people want Andi to be punished for her actions (I’m not going to get into whether or not she’s already undergone a degree of punishment, and whether or not that’s “enough”). Maybe she “deserves” to suffer – I’m personally not sure. However, completely excluding Andi from this first holiday celebration, to me, comes close to punishing Amanda as well as her mother, which I think is not acceptable.
Amanda is a jackass of the highest caliber, the sort that scars other kids for life. Andi is Andi, enough said about that. I’d rather both of them skedaddle from Todd’s family’s life. Namely, I *don’t* consider Amanda Todd’s family, and I think he’s overly generous to do that himself. Amanda has a mom. Good for her. Let them go off and be family. He has Selkie.
Whether or not Todd *should* do that, he has chosen to include Amanda in his life. That descision comes with certain responsibilities, such as not purposefully doing things that will be upsetting to Amanda and also modelling good mature behaviour for Selkie.
I honestly think you’re being too hard on Amanda (I’m gonna leave Andi out of this). She’s a child. She wasn’t born acting the way she does now. She learned to be aggressive, bullying, and careless of others. However, she is young enough to learn how to behave differently. Since Todd has chosen to be a father-figure in her life, he’s taken on the responsibility of helping her learn that (which is even more important if it turns out that Andi can’t).
Amanda has been Todd’s family since before she was born. He was excited about the pregnancy, looked forward to raising her, mourned her “death” and has never forgotten her. He’s not being “generous” in considering her as his daughter – he’s ALWAYS considered her as his daughter, for the simple reason that she is. He missed eight years of her life due to Andi and her mother’s lies. He’s not just going to shrug her off now. Selkie is not a replacement – ask any parent who’s lost a child whether they feel that another child born or adopted later is a replacement for the first. I recommend doing so from a safe distance.
Amanda’s unpleasant personality traits stem from horrific abuse and abandonment trauma. Todd can relate better than most – he was an “Amanda” when his parents adopted him. He also knows Amanda doesn’t have to grow up to be a “jackass” – after all, he didn’t, thanks to the love and guidance his parents gave him.
That “Forget about them, cut them out of your life, they’re not actually family anyways” line was used INCESSANTLY on Mom and me while we were struggling to maintain ties with my niece and nephews as they went through what I term “The Foster Care Nightmare.”
Just TRY telling someone they shouldn’t love and care about kids who they have already bonded with. How often do you think that works?
We practically beggared ourselves ferrying them to and fro, and from being their transportation we strengthened the bond, so that now, as they’re about to step into adulthood, they come to us with their problems and constantly ask us about things as if our approval really is a big deal to them. So the bond certainly isn’t just one-way.
And these are kids with whom we don’t share a genetic bond (my brother’s son’s mother’s other kids — his half-siblings). Todd actually HAS a genetic bond with Amanda. Moreso, he was her dad even before she was born, as Whirlwitch said. Even moreso, he knows she went through even worse problems than he did as a kid; who turns away from a child after that?
Todd is gonna give Amanda more than her fair share of the benefit of the doubt, because it is impossible for him to blame her for the upbringing that Andi inflicted on her. After all, he went through the same things, and fought his way up to be a decent person. Being adopted by his parents was the best thing that ever happened to him; you think he’ll deny her that sort of undeserved benefit (grace)?
IMHO, you can always cut someone out of your life. However, it’s much harder to bring that person back into your life if you change your mind later, so it’s not something that should be done lightly (I speak from experience here.)
Todd can always cut Andi completely out of his life. I don’t think he should burn that bridge just yet for many reasons, foremost among them Amanda and Selkie’s well-being. I’ve been thinking about how adults model behaviour for children a lot lately, because I have a two year old niece in whose life I’m very involved. If Todd tries to mend fences with Andi and she sabotages his efforts, Selkie and Amanda will (eventually) respect him for showing compassion and making the painful effort on their behalf.
At this point in the story, Todd has a chance to facilitate a positive change in three peoples’ lives. He has no direct responsibility to Andi, but I don’t see that giving her a (little bit) of a chance to redeem herself is going to do any serious harm, and it may do some substantial good.
I agree with Whirlwitch and Kilyle’s comments about Amanda. I wouldn’t be surprised if Dave made Amanda so “unlikeable” to challenge readers who have been bullied or who have children in their lives who have been bullied. (I think Andi represents a similar sort of challenge.) It’s easy to emphasize with Todd and Selkie; it’s tough to empathize with Andi and Amanda. Does Amanda stand a chance of growing up to be a horrible, destructive person? Of course, and she’s sadly already on that path. Yet her future isn’t pre-determined. I don’t think it’s hyperbole to say that how Todd and Andi (and Selkie) figure out this new family dynamic is going to go a long way towards determining what kind of person Amanda is going to be.
Hmmm… This is going to be like one of those horrible family reunions I wished I never went to, isn’t it?
Eyup.
So much that this music will be playing in my head every time I read one of the strips:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9FSKgPDGSE
Well… It’s not the kind of thing that is fun to be part of, but we may as well go get some popcorn, huh? XD
Oh yes it will be. *Settles in for the catastrophe.*
… Does Richard remind anyone else of Prince?
Well,yeah. Just a little.
Ah, thank you! Glad I’m not the only one who saw it… ^^; I mean he’s know 100% identical doppelganger but I couldn’t put my finger on why he looked so familiar until I realized it. XD
No prob. It’s pretty easy to see. :3
YES! It’s been driving me crazy (in a good way).
Is it deliberate that the guys are all wearing mostly-green sweaters and both women are wearing mostly-red sweaters? Family tradition, perhaps? Or they just all got out their most Christmas-y sweaters and the dominant colours just happened to divide along gender lines?
Is this going to be Aunt Marta and Uncle Antoine’s first meeting with Amanda.
That’s where my interest is.
Just curious, but Mari & Theo DID remember to remove “the urn,” I hope.
I can imagine what would happen if they didn’t, and Amanda happens to notice it. Heck, she might find it anyhow if it hasn’t been thrown away and she goes snooping for presents.
It’s an easy explanation.
Amanda: What’s that?
Mari: Just a decorative jar honey, no worries.
Yes, but … Amanda can read. Maybe it’s done differently in different places, but I’ve never seen someone’s urn that wasn’t engraved with their name, birth & death dates.
That’s why I joked about giving it to Andi for Christmas, well that and I was just trying for the funnies.
That would be super creepy… What does one do in that situation? Do you keep the urn or toss it? I mean, it’s been nearly a decade they had it and developed an attachment to it, but it was all based on a lie. Still…it seems it’d be hard to just throw out something like that. Pinterest? XD
Well, I think we figured out Andi’s christmas gift.
… Oh gods. That’d be horrible, and yet utterly merited. “Here. You gave it to us, you figure out what to do with it.”
This is going to be such a trainwreck of a reunion.
Sorry we regifted, we don’t usually do that but I think this might be good for you to have back.
Is it wrong that while I wish well for Andi, I want it to be cannon? Yes, it’s not nice or mature, but—damn—it’s justified.
Or it could be healthy –
Amanda “What’s that”
others: “We wanted to have something to remember you always when we thought you weren’t with us. You’re family, and we are glad to have you here!”
And I also think it would be very – appropriate for Andi to be given the urn. They probably won’t because they have been trying to keep things healthy for Amanda – but I would love to see it nonetheless
Ooooo… I missed the stockings for the sweeties before it was colored. This is going to be so awkward—especially since Todd said he was going to wait to drop it on them until the day Andi came over. Ho-boy!
Don’t think he said anything like that! I’m hopeful the next scene will be them getting a head sup call and rather than just a “knock knock, we are here”.
I could have sworn he did. Did the dialog in the last comic’s last page change?
Aw… This makes me a little sad. My landlords are a gay couple, both named Steve… And one just killed himself this past Sunday. Everyone in the complex is very upset, Im attending services this Saturday.
That’s HORRIBLE – I’m so sorry. 🙁