Time for a short dressing-down.
Traffic court was… ugh. I have to go back in a month because when i requested supervision, they had nothing prepared for that request and need me to work that out personally.
Not sure about continuing with the hand-drawn bubbles, at least for as long as I'm using a standard font anyway.
“All the espresso!”
It was at this moment Lillian knew, she [interlocked gender symbols]ed up.
XD XD XD !!!
Kudos to Keisha for making the responsible choices, though!
Would someone please pick up that phone?
‘Cause I think I called it.
Daaaaaaaaaang that was smooth
Lillian I love you so much right now. Its about time someone without an *emotional* investment called Andi to task about her *trying* simply not being good enough. “I’m trying” is admirable and you do need to commend effort but its simply not enough in a lot of cases. Parents don’t have to be “perfect” but the do HAVE to be “good enough” and Andi is falling short of even that basic goal.
Actually, they don’t have to be good enough. A lot of them are even horrible. If all parents were required to be ‘good enough’, I’d be surprised if 1% of the population were allowed to have children.
AMEN! As a schoolteacher, I see that all. too. often….. :/ Mental Competency tests for elections? How about mental and emotional competency tests for prospective parents? What some of my kids have had to deal with…
Do or do not.
There is no “try”.
My first official YouTube video refutes that notion (“Try, or Try Not (Sorry, Yoda)”) on account of it preventing people from trying things they won’t succeed at. How do you know you’re going to be able to do something until you try it for the first time?
But as far as Andi: I don’t know how fast Amanda got through those tiny cups of wine, but it can’t’ve been all that long or the people running that table would’ve physically been between her and the table by then (or pulling all the glasses back or the like). And Andi was at that time already handling a situation that concerned Amanda, with another parent.
I’ve had mixed feelings about Andi as a character and about her parenting skills, but this doesn’t seem at all like something worth reading her the riot act over. I can see this sort of thing happening to a perfectly normal parent acting in perfectly normal ways, who happens to have a willful child and happens to get pulled into a conversation with an overbearing parent for two minutes. The kid’s still in the room and the attention is not on the child.
This is part of why I strongly question the ability of this setup to exist in the first place. It seems weird to have alcohol out where children can grab it.
The thing I think she really did wrong is allowing Amanda to walk away from the conversation. She should have watched where her little girl had wandered off to.
Buuuuuut… she was in a supposedly safe environment. I’m sure Andi felt comfortable allowing Amanda to wander. Even Todd didn’t notice or say anything about Amanda walking off. And while he’s not her adopted parent, he is her father, biologically.
Let’s completely ignore the fact that two adults made almost no attempt to stop her from drinking alcohol. Let’s also ignore the fact that Andi was currently trying to deal with a grown man verbally assaulting her daughter in public. Let’s also ignore the fact that not even the best of parents can watch their children like a hawk 100% of the time even in environments that aren’t currently hosting a multitude of people.
It’s not like Andi gave Amanda the alcohol and told her to chug it. She was currently attempting to deal with another situation that could have and was on route to get wildly out of control and cause a scene.
And how many times have the kids at the orphanage gotten into trouble and done pretty awful things to each other under Lilian’s care? I mean, if Andi is expected to be on top of Amanda at all times, then Lilian should be able to have stopped Amanda from bullying Selkie all the time and she should have been able to see Amanda’s seriously traumatic issues and see how URGENTLY they needed to be addressed.
She definitely needed to let Andi know that she shouldn’t be so eager to smile and make introductions during this incident, but in no way does she need to insult Andi or her parenting. If you didn’t think Andi was up to the task of raising Amamda, then you shouldn’t have given her to her. Belittling her isn’t going to make things better, it’s going to make it worse.
Lillian doesn’t know this. And she should have planned ahead. Seriously. They would have had time to prepare if ANDI HADN’T DECIDED MINORS SHOULD BE THERE LAST MINUTE. Like yes the wine guys are responsible too. But they would have been properly prepared if Andi hadn’t done it spurr of the moment. And she did need to keep an eye on Amanda. Like she’s the parent and she needs to be responsible.
Minors are allowed at art shows. That was why they had the water bottles: for those who cannot drink or will not drink wine. Why should they offer anything different. Kid can have water or nothing. Speaking as a vendor, I am not allowed to physically prevent a child from touching anything. I can tell them “no” or “ask your parent” or tell them that it is not what it looks like. (Why didn’t they just say it was wine?) The vendors could have shouted/spoken loudly (hey ask your folks if you can have wine kid!) to get folks attention. But they cannot take from the kid or force the kid not to touch it. At least that is how it was at every show I worked at.
Now Andi should have been watching her daughter more closely. Or Todd should have sent Selkie to watch her and come back if there is any issue.
You are not allowed to stop the kid?
That makes no sense.
If YOU provide the wine, and the kid tries to drink the wine YOU provided, and you don’t try everything up to and including snatching it from their grubby little hands, YOU have provided the child with wine.
I’m pretty sure that’s how the police would look at it, and the DA, and the judge, and the jury (if it went to jury trial).
It makes perfect sense in modern America. If they touch a kid, even to stop them doing something they shouldn’t, there’s always a risk of lawsuit later. The only thing they could do is what Elizabeth mentioned – be loud enough about it so they get the parent’s attention, and let them deal with it.
It’s stupid, but it’s a sad reality.
No, wait. “Modern America” is not an excuse to allow a child to come to harm when you could have prevented it. Does “Modern America” mean you have to stand there and watch a toddler poke a metal fork into an electric outlet? You’re not allowed to reach out and catch a child from running in front of an oncoming bus?
If we’re passing out blame, sure, there’s plenty to go round. Andi gets some. So do the organizers. But the servers don’t get out of this by chanting “This is modern America — we are forced to be stupid!!” They were right there. They were negligent. One glass, right… anyone can be caught off guard. But letting her gulp down that many glassfuls?
In modern America, it’s true, anyone can be sued for anything whether it makes sense or not. If you let fear of that govern how you protect a child from harm, and that child DOES come to REAL harm (more than this minor episode, which isn’t actually that serious, but…) “I was worried my employer might be sued” is a pretty flimsy defense against a charge of criminal negligence.
I never said it was smart. Or good. Or right. I’m just pointing out that it IS. For the record, I agree with you. I was just pointing out that these days, it’s not surprising.
Dude, its your job as a parent to look after this things, you have to know, in advanced, that there are kids in a place where alcohol is freely accessible, where children are not a common occurrence, where YOU imposed an adult situation into YOUR kids, and take appropriate measures, “that stuff is for adults, you can take the other stuff” simple words that take a few seconds to speak
and since she was the one that organized the event… it looks even worse on her part
Actually, while I’m not going to exactly defend Andi here, there is one inaccuracy in this. She didn’t arrange the event; she is an exhibitor at an event hosting a bunch of different artists’ work. The gallery arranges the event as a public space and unless they explicitly say that they will be screening so 21 and over only is allowed, it wouldn’t automatically be considered not-ok for kids to be there.
Andi as a single exhibitor in a group exhibition wouldn’t have any input as to the refreshments or the setup (ie, screening or lack thereof). She’d know if it were 21 and up only, but that’s all. She MIGHT know that wine is typically on offer (if it is) but that’s debatable – depends too much on what the ‘typical’ exhibit is like.
Understand, I’m not saying Andi hasn’t made mistakes – just that the specific responsibility for the setup and arrangement of the exhibition wasn’t hers.
I couldn’t agree more.
Speaking as a parent here, when I am out in public with one (or both) of my kids I am constantly keeping one eye (or ear) on where they are and what they’re doing. In a situation where there is a conflict I want my child out of but I can’t personally leave with them I do one of the following: 1. Ask another adult to keep an eye on the child while I move out of earshot. 2. Ask my child to go to another spot I can see (“Why don’t you go get a water?”) but if I do that, I keep the child in my line of sight so I can continue to supervise. Yes the two at the table should have stopped Amanda. Yes Andi was attempting to deal with another situation without letting it destroy what was an important event for her career-wise. Neither of these is an excuse for her ignoring where her kid was and what she was doing for the length of time it would take for Amanda to not only drink that much (yes she could have pounded them like shots) but for it to affect her. You don’t get drunk the second you swallow it after all. According to this website (http://bradfordhealth.com/alcohol-101-learning-new-facts-remembering-what-you-forgot/) it takes approximately 30 minutes for alcohol to begin to affect a normal adult. Even taking into account that someone of Amanda’s age and size might feel affects sooner we’re looking at Andi having ignored what’s going on with her daughter for at least 10-15 minutes. For a child in what is not really a “child friendly” event to be ignored that length of time is idiotic. Now, if she knew Amanda better, if she had sent her over to hang with friends (and asked the adult with said friend to keep an eye on her), if she had asked Amanda to hang out in a corner with a book or toy brought along to keep her amused out of earshot but in view, then sure, 15 min. no big deal. Given that she barely knows the kid and did NONE of those things I say she deserves whatever Lillian chooses to dish out.
Sorry for the run on sentences.
I think your estimate of timing is way off. Lillian was heading across the room the minute she spotted Amanda at that table, at which point the servers were running around the table, arms waving, and Amanda had already chugged down two glasses and was into her third. Heather noticed a few seconds later that Amanda was in trouble, and by then Amanda’s face was already flushed. Lillian’s hand descended on Amanda’s shoulder a moment later. Start to finish, “grape juice” to “poor life decisions”, the entire incident couldn’t have lasted more than a minute.
Did Dave’s plot have the wine going to Amanda’s head unrealistically fast? Maybe. But other evidence suggests there’s no way it could have been any fifteen minutes.
This is where I’m at, too. It does not seem like enough time went by for this to be Andi screwing up. Certainly seeing a kid at the juice-and-wine table from the back, you couldn’t tell which thing she was drinking, and being distracted by an attack from another parent gives ample excuse for not having 100% attention on the kid anyway.
Lilian wasn’t even watching her owns kids 100% of the time at the art show, so she should shut up. Not to mention the fact she didn’t get Amanda proper help while she was in charge.
How do you know she wasn’t? How do any of you guys getting pissy at Lillian know? Like seriously? Sounds like she was.
None of those kids got drunk. None of them got hurt. She was watching them during this. Andi wasn’t. Instead she was being completely antagonistic towards Heather’s dad despite knowing Amanda can be aggressive and a bully. All Lillian is doing is telling her to grow up.
I dislike Andi overall but not sure I agree here, you can’t be expected to watch a kid 24/7, can’t stop them from acting up at least sometime.
You can be sure they can’t get their hands on alcohol so easily. Like making sure there were kid friendly drinks available and making sure that people knew kids were coming.
Like the water she was offered before she grabbed the wine she was told not to drink?
That wasn’t handed to her and the wine that was too easily accessible?
The moment any kids showed up at the art show (much less possibly becoming the majority in attendance) the alcohol should have gone on lock-down (metaphorically or literally), there is really no pleading ignorance there as it, the two attendants did so little to stop the situation it probably would have been just as efficient if they left the stand utterly unattended. Not saying it was their fault alone, but they definitely deserve every bit as much blame they get as well as whoever they worked under.
you can however keep an eye on them out in public! At home or maybe at a familiar play zone like a park sure letting them wander and play and something happening when your back is turned that’s normal. At a event like this, with only one kid, it is not that big an ask to keep an eye on your kid to prevent then pinching stuff off tables.
Here’s the thing. It wouldn’t have happened if Andi hadn’t done this last minute. Like they could’ve prepared real juice for kids and even soda if Andi told them. Her impulsive behavior got Amanda drunk. Now she has to deal with the consequences of her impulsive actions.
Then if Heather had gotten drunk instead would you say that’s Andi’s fault too?
Considering she’s with her Dad and is less likely to disobey a grown up? -___- Like I doubt Heather would do that.
I’m sorry, but I have to call bullshit to that. It’s totally a double-standard, just because we’ve only seen one of these kids getting into trouble that doesn’t mean Heather wouldn’t have made the same mistake if she were having a stubborn moment or a bad day. Kids are smart, if she saw the grape logos she could have made the same mistake and drank it too.
Then the tables would be turned, and everyone would be calling Kenneth a bad parent who was ignoring his kid in public around alcohol. Seriously, would everyone be hating him as hard as they are with Andi? No. And that, dear friends, is BULL. SHIT. We know more about Andi so a lot of people just see her as awful who needs to die and never be given the benefit of the doubt. We know much, much less about Kenneth, so would we be hating on him and calling him a horrible person who doesn’t deserve to be a parent?
I keep seeing double-standards like this and it’s just really ticking me off. Yes comparing Kenneth and Andi is like apples and oranges, but there’s no guarantee we can predict what kids do. They’re smart and stubborn when adults thing they’re ‘wrong’, like how Amanda thought the vendors were being ‘stupid’ about not having juice when she could see the grape logo. Kids see grapes, they think juice. Adults, not so much, but such is life.
If Heather made the same mistake as Amanda, there’s no way this would blow up as hard as it did because this happened with Andi and not Kenneth.
EXCEPT HEATHER ISN’T THE SAME AS AMANDA. GOT IN TROUBLE FOR STEALING BECAUSE HER PARENTS CAN BE RESPONSIBLE. LISTENS TO ADULTS. AND ANDI IS AN IMMATURE HUMAN BEING WHO DID HORRIBLE THINGS IN THE PAST.
Don’t act like this is some double standard. It ain’t. Neither are the same. Just stop.
Oh my goodness, you’re being so mature “yelling at me” in all CAPS. I was only trying to make my point, and you’re only proving the fact that you’re being an intolerable brat who can’t see that my opinion wasn’t aimed at berating anyone.
Way to act your age.
Moreover, this isn’t about Andi, this is about how kids can act. I can vouch for the fact that ANY kid can screw up and make a mistake like Amanda in this situation. I see you putting down Andi all the time in the comments and I usually have nothing to say and I just hold my tongue.
Do you know what a horrible mother REALLY is? I won’t say who this is I know from my life (other then the fact that THIS IS NOT MY MOTHER), but a horrible mother is a drug addict who claims she loves her kids even though she refuses to get sober, stop drinking, doing drugs, etc., has been to PRISON and makes NO EFFORT to even want to gain custody or visitation rights back so she can do more THEN ONLY TALK TO THEM ON THE PHONE.
I get it. You’re blindly hating Andi. Why? I can only imagine you’re projecting your hatred of a real-life person onto a fictional character that probably reminds you of her.
Andi? SHE IS TRYING TO GET HER SHIT TOGETHER AND THIS DOES NOT HAPPEN OVERNIGHT. OR IN A WEEK. YES, she MAY BE immature, but she is TRYING. GOD KNOWS SHE’S TRYING, UNLIKE THE SCUMBAG I MENTIONED ABOVE. Has Andi been to prison? No. Been arrested for public intoxication? No. Been found asleep in a gutter? No. Been in two accidents for drunk driving and subsequently arrested for both of them? And at the time have been going to pick up her kids BEFORE being arrested for drunk driving?
ANDI. IS. TRYING. YES, SHE MADE MISTAKES AND IS TRYING TO ATONE FOR THEM, AND THAT MAY INCLUDE MAKING A FEW MORE MISTAKES ALONG THE WAY BECAUSE NEWSFLASH: THIS. SHIT. ISN’T EASY.
As for the “mother of the year”? She NEVER tries, and I thank GOD every day for the sake of those kids that she has no right to visit them until God-knows-when. Will it be the day she FINALLY becomes sober? Who knows. Or she could die in a fucking gutter somewhere because at this point? THAT would be a bigger relief than ANYTHING ELSE.
Andi is NOT a bad mother. She is a HUMAN. ALL HUMANS MAKE MISTAKES, yourself included you self-righteous brat. You make mightier-than-thou statements and put down EVERYBODY who doesn’t believe what you do. You talking her down like this is basically your way of saying, “I don’t think she deserves to be a better person, because I don’t think so.” So Andi gets NO chance to become a better person because YOU say so and no other reason than that. People who have done worse than this, have atoned for what they do any you know what? PEOPLE FORGIVE THEM.
If Andi showed NO REMORSE for what she did, then sure, even I would be skeptical about this situation. Just because someone did something horrible, that doesn’t mean they can’t make up for it. Forgive and forget, sure forgetting may not be entirely possible, but forgiveness is better then carrying around a bitter resentment towards everyone and everything for the rest of your life. It’s a hard pill to swallow.
Say what you want, Andi is NOT a bad mother. EVERY mom makes mistakes. Mine made mistakes, and did THAT make everyone jump down her throat and say she didn’t deserve to be a mom and that she should just be struck dead by a truck or lightening? NO.
“Mother of the year” however? Her mistakes are way worse then Andi’s. Is it hypocritical of me to say things would be easier if SHE were struck dead? Yes, and I accept that. But like Todd with Andi, when she changes, makes the moves to do so, and tries to PROVE HERSELF, I will forgive her but I will never forget the mistakes she made.
But you just think all horrible people are horrible and never will stop being horrible. You know what?
GROW THE FUCK UP.
Yes. What you said. Very well put.
There’s a lot I would have said here, but after reading your exchange with ‘LadyObvious’ it all would be redundant.
So was Kenneth also wrong to let Heather and Giselle go look at art by themselves, or heck is Lillian being a hypocrite by letting the kids go pick treats by themselves? I think kids are not supposed to drink coffee either.
Coffee is only a problem due to the caffeine which is present in most soft drink anyway so it more it should be a treat and rarity for the young.
She’s still letting them out of her sight in a public place though. :p
I can’t help but feel that Lilian is being overly harsh, and judging without learning all the facts. It’s dreadfully unfair of her.
That said, lets be honest: Andi failed. She had good reason for her inability to do her job, but *she failed*. Life’s not fair — and Lilian’s job isn’t to make it fair. Sometimes you have to give someone a kick in the ass to get them going, to give them that extra nudge to get them giving more than they thought they could.
Question is if that’s what Lilian is doing or not.
I don’t think Lillian is being overly harsh at all. She is remarkably restrained given the situation. She has watched over Amanda for years, done her best to counter the harm done to her by the adoptive family who “gave her back”and thought she had done all she could to ensure that the birth mother who wanted her back would do right by the child. Now from her perspective it looks like this child who she has tried so hard to keep safe has ended up in yet another bad situation where she has come to harm.
Sure, some of the harshness of her response to Andi is probably due to Lillian feeling as though she has failed Amanda by letting Andi have her, to me though, it looks like Lillian is trying to open Andi’s eyes to reality and force her to become the parent she claimed she wanted to be.
Notice that she’s being harsh in front of Amanda.
What’s Amanda likely to do when she realizes that her mom (who has been doing a lot, which Amanda has stated she’s aware of) is taking the blame for something Amanda did? Something Amanda probably thought nothing of doing, because hey, Amanda has probably internalized taking the blame for all kinds of things because she’s a “trouble-maker.” (She got blamed for her brothers being jerks to her, if I recall correctly?)
This isn’t chewing Andi out, not exclusively. This is putting Amanda on notice that her mom is being held to higher standards than other people’s parents.
Look at Amanda’s face there.
You know, this page made me think less highly of Lilian — I had been thinking very highly of her before — but if she’s doing this to make AMANDA change her behavior or her attitude… she is far more cunning than I took her for. That would change my entire feeling about this page.
Yes. Because of Andi’s stupid spontaneous idea,this happened. If she had decided days ago and told her boss that Amanda and school children were coming they could have prepared. But NOO. She didn’t. These are the consequences for her actions. She needs to deal with them.
Do you seriously think that the people who are serving alcohol need extra preparation in order to be able to prevent a child from drinking MULTIPLE cups of wine?
They tried. Amanda didn’t stop no matter how hard they did.
As much as I respect Andi I have to agree here. Andi has her heart in the right place but her head is still acting like an immature child. It sadly doesn’t surprise me that Andi simply didn’t think about how this whole situation could have happened or been avoided at all. Which ironically means she’s still being portrayed as a realistic person.
For all those who don’t know, the path for anyone that’s seriously tired of screwing up is filled with lots of screw-ups. As long as she learns from these mistakes, she’ll end up making less of them in the future. That’s how people stop screwing up and start growing up.
Actually, Lillian is spot on. Andi was too busy to organise something decent for the kids, she wasn’t watching what her daughter was doing. She refused to accept that her daughter was mis-behaving towards Heather, and did it in a way that would antagonise Heather’s dad. Todd had to step in to de-escalate that, the 2 wine guys did their best to stop her, but Amanda was having none of that. Lillian was the one that intervened with Amanda, and decided about the cafe. Todd was the one that provided food and drink to help Amanda feel better. Andi has been not good enough for Amanda and her problems. Any normal children can be trusted to behave on the times that they can’t be supervised. Amanda has significant emotional issues that do need structure, security, and vigilance. And so far Andi has not been up to scratch with that. Not just now, but in the way she has been behaving at home with her.
I understand Lillian’s points, especially since she was in charge of Amanda’s care for the last three years. She did trust for Andi to do her best to take care of her daughter from now on, being her biological mother she has that right, however a part of parenting is being able to trust your kid. Andi’s only been in the game for about a week or so at this point, so yes it’s a little too soon to completely drop the hawks’ eye view on her, especially in public, but she was doing what she thought was the best thing for Amanda at that time. I doubt anyone knew there was going to be alcohol there, and Amanda was too stubborn to see the ‘grown-up stuff’ was wine and not juice. Kids make mistakes, and Amanda made a big one while her mom and dad were trying to straighten up things with Kenneth.
My mom made a point to keep her eye on my brothers and I as youngsters, but she wasn’t constantly following us from room to room, upstairs and down, and if we needed anything we would go to her in the other room, or if it sounded like we needed her she would come in and see if we were okay. Bump to a head, scrape to a knee, she knew what to do if she were there to see it or in the other room making lunch or dinner. She does the same thing with her grandkids (my nephews) and since I’m rather novice at taking care of children, she tells me not to worry so much and that if we’re not watching everything they do like a mama hawk, that’s fine, especially at their ages (8 and 5-going-on-6) and with experienced caretakers.
Things are different for Andi though, since she’s still quite the greenhorn at the job. Not saying she screwed up, but eventually she’ll learn that one day kids will be fine without you observing every waking moment of what they do until they go to bed. This was a big slip-up on her part, but no one could have known what could have happened.
*Not saying she DIDN’T screw up…
How about being less impulsive and planning ahead. Like literally telling those guys that kids were coming in advance. That’s really all she had to do to avoid being told off and getting her kid drunk.
I’m not saying Andi shouldn’t have given any notice, but with public events like this there’s always a chance someone will come along with their kids. Whether or not Andi advertised it to Amanda’s class or not, there’s always a chance that someone with a child may go somewhere with said child in tow. People make mistakes, Andi is no different.
Except not always. And the notice could have helped.
I agree with Coco that this was a public event and as such they should have expected children to be part of the crowd.
The organizers need to make their public event safe for children, even if they have not been specifically told children are on the guest list, and the parents need to keep an eye on their kids. Both parties are responsible.
Judging by the boxed wine and bottled water, they only had a small budget for refreshments, especially since they were giving them out for FREE. Even if Andi had given notice, there is ALWAYS the possibility that someone was going to end up there with their kid or kids. If it were anyone else’s kid making the same mistake, there wouldn’t be as big of a conflict.
They probably bought the refreshments in advance, so even if they were told about the kids they probably wouldn’t have had juice or soda ready in time. Hence why they said they only had the wine and water, wine in a box can be pretty cheap and water is usually cheap bought in those big packs of 24 or more. Small budget for a free event.
I’m both with Coco here, and not. No, it wasn’t Andi’s responsibility to tell the art gallery owners there were kids coming. An art show is a public event. They were offering refreshments in a kid-unsafe manner, and that’s on them, not her.
At the same time, an experienced parent does learn to scan an environment for hazards. Generally this parent-training starts when the first baby is getting almost old enough to crawl. The safety net there is that new parents find it very hard to take their eyes OFF the kid anyway, so they’ll (usually) see a danger before the baby can grab it.
Andi has only been a parent for about a week. She doesn’t have any of these instincts. She has a lot to learn. As an artist, art shows would be a very familiar environment for her, one that she unconsciously assumed was safe. She still relates to Amanda as a kind of small adult… which is good in some ways — Amanda is very thirsty for respect, and Andi’s attitude gives her that. But what Lilian is getting at is that Andi also needs to BE the protecting adult who foresees danger and makes sure it doesn’t happen.
I like this bubble and text combination.
Did anyone else see my hammer?
Oh wait, there it is. Lilian dropped it.
Above all, and amid all these comments, let me make this statement: All of these are really good points! I find myself struggling to take a side! At first, I was like, go, Lillian! But it is true that you cannot watch your child 24/7. You can worry about not being able to but in truth you can’t. Is Andi somewhat at fault? Yes. I can’t believe she antagonized Heather’s dad like that, knowing her daughter has issues! But I assume that maybe smart Lillian is using this both as a wake-up call to Andi (and I am sure Lillian doesn’t even know that Amanda made herself and her mom late earlier, or some of the other things Andi appears to let Amanda get away with) and as a cover-your-a$$ moment, where one of her prior wards just got drunk on ALL their watches. Yeah… That’s what I gotta say:) Fun times!
Dave> traffic court? Bummer, man.
Yeah, I live a bit over an hour apart from my girlfriend and got into a habit of driving over the speed limit to cut down travel time. Got busted at a county halfway between us for going 15mph over. Did the math and I was only saving myself about ten minutes anyway. :\
Gotta go back in a month because I requested supervision, and they didn’t have anything prepared for that request. >_<
As much as I’m originally somewhat inclined to be in Andi’s defense here, thinking over it a bit she actually IS majorly at fault here. Not necessarily in leaving Amanda unattended enough to get into the wine (at least not directly) but you have to remember that Andi was the one who PERSONALLY invited all of these kids to her show… but she then took absolutely no precautions if or when they showed up? I mean really, expecting children to attend but only offering wine or water as refreshments? Granted it’s possible she didn’t have a large hand in setting up that side of things, but I would have a hard tome believing she didn’t have direct access to whoever did and it probably would have only took one line to whoever that was and this situation would have been much easier to avoid.
Might be misremembering but it isn’t her show, she’s just displaying a piece there isn’t she? Don’t remember her being involved beyond that.
From what we’ve seen of the setup (with the gallery owner/manager and the critic) that is correct. Andi is just one of the artists whose work is on display.
Putting on my winemaker hat (I own a winery and am required to comply with state and federal law both on my own premises and if doing tastings elsewhere etc), I would say that the gallery SHOULD be expecting children to potentially be present unless it is explicitly a 21 and over event, in which case there would need to be someone at the door verifying IDs (same as at a night club). This is pretty standard – for instance, some places allow for wine tastings and stands at farmers’ markets. Under the circumstances, we are required to verify that patrons are of legal age and also attempt to assess their condition – ie, make sure they’re not already inebriated or otherwise out of control, and not serve them if they are.
There are a bunch of other requirements. If anyone is interested, I can contact a couple of agencies and inquire as to what the legal expectation on the part of servers/providers would be in the case of a temporarily unsupervised child attempting to grab and consume the drinks. However, based on past conversations (particularly with regard to public events like farmers’ markets or child-accessible gallery showings), I know that at least part of it does involve the drinks NOT being easily grabbed off a table; they should be on the server’s side of the table so that verification is done beforehand. In my state, not only is that the case, but unless it’s a 21 and over (essentially pre-verified) occasion, drinks aren’t supposed to be POURED until after checking IDs. You can have the bottle open and the glasses ready, but until ID, no drinkie-drinkie. From that aspect, at least, while Andi should have been keeping a much closer eye on Amanda, the onus is on the servers and/or whoever arranged it so that the drinks could be grabbed that readily by a child.
You’ve mentioned your winery before, and I’m curious about it. Do you have a website? Can you deliver wine through the mail?
I wish I could! Right now we don’t have a website – we’re still working to get labels approved (long story, but because we don’t work with grape wines, each wine and each vintage has to have individual label approval by the federal government). We have a single wine which is labeled and available for sale, but mail orders would need to be done through a distributor… you know, this explanation is getting long and probably most people won’t be that interested. 🙂
Summarizing, then, instead: right now we can’t sell through the mail and are waiting on a website until we’re in a position to move on things. However, if you’re ever in Washington state, let me know and I’ll be glad to hook you up or even give you a tour of our farm and winery. Hopefully within the next calendar year we’ll be in a better position to actually sell our products other than to direct in-state markets.
No, you can’t watch a child 24-7. However, if you take a child with known behavioral issues to an adult event that includes alcohol and an open display of expensive art, then YES, you are responsible for watching that child like a hawk. Aside from everything else, Amanda could easily have damaged artwork that is people’s livelihood. Andi would be held personally and financially responsible for that as well.
Eh, it’s modern art. If something gets damaged they’d just make up a story about how it actually represenets the failures of our society or something, and it’d be worth even more. 😀
Thank you, you are the first person to point out the kids need to be watched like a hawk to protect the art. a gallery is not a playground. There are expensive and breakable things.
Thank you FaithWoola. I totally agree with your statement.
Ever read the museum/art gallery anecdotes on NotAlwaysRight? Brrrr.
Some in stores, too. “My kids are destroying private property and I’m doing nothing to stop them and barely paying attention to them but how DARE you raise your voice or tell them they can’t do what they want to do? I’ll sue you and/or call the cops!”
Prepare to get rekt Andi
It is also possible that Lillian is giving Andi the dressing down in front of Amanda to incite Amanda’s fierce loyalty to Andi. It may occur to Amanda that her actions got Andi in trouble… and her actions can keep Andi out of future trouble.
Good luck with traffic court!
That would be a very clever move on Lillian’s part as well. By reminding Andi of her responsibility to Amanda, Amanda learns some responsibility as well.
Killing two birds with one stone.
You know this ticks me off. This comic has only shown single female parents in negative light as irresponsible parents but single male parents as awesome king of parents. Only time a mom is ever seen as a good mum is if they are married. But you know what bet this like me in life will be fully ignored.
Don’t think so. Neither this community or the author is so short-sighted or closed minded to fall into such stereotypes like that, nor to completely ignore an argument just because it’s a sensitive issue. We’re all more mature than that.
Really you are? Name one single mum who hasnt been show as irresponcable or cruel or did sometging to loose custody of her kids.
Nothing in the story implies Andi being a bad parent has something to do with her being a woman or single, and you don’t have a big enough sample to claim it is making a judgement about this topic either.
Being passive aggresive from the get go also won’t get you any favors in an argument.
You are right about passive agressive and sorry just woke up in a bad mood and this didbt help matters. I just feel overly frustrated lately with this arc and try my damnest to keep my mouth shut about it but our last arc had a lot of negative with andi and amanda too and it would be a nice change of pace to see something possitive. Sigh sorry for coming off as such a bitch just really frustrated and finally thought i would speak up…i really should just shut it
No, you should speak up if something about the story line is unsettling you.
Even you seem to agree it could have been less passive aggressive, though I thought it was fine. I have autism and a big thing I am still struggling to learn is that often there’s nothing wrong with WHAT I say, but I have to put careful planning into HOW I say it if I want to be understood/agreed with/accepted.
Again, from my point of view, you had a totally valid point and said it well. But it didn’t come across that way to other people. When you want to make an important point like that, and you want to be heard, and you want something done, take extra care to word it the right way. You deserve to have your opinion heard and considered.
I just read over your remarks again. It looks like you’re used to being ignored or told to just shut up. I can think of two reasons for that. One, you need to get away from the terrible people in your life who can’t treat you with basic respect!
Two, again I return to the point of how you say things. When you make a point, do you often add on a bunch of negative remarks about how nobody will listen to you? When you speak, do you have an attitude like what you’re saying is worthless or you’re annoyed with the listener? People often notice things like this more than the actual content of what you’re saying.
You need to believe that you matter, your opinions matter, and what you have to say matters. Frame your words like they have value. Assume this is information the listener wants and needs to hear. Put care into forming your statements, because they are important and deserve to be presented well.
I have expressive language disorder and MS, lately it takes me even longer then before to speak or type or even get anything across so people often talk over me.
To answer your query of showing a female/mum in charge of kids alone? That would be me, as in Jade Griffin. My character. I have been writing journals (not illustrated, just stories) of her and her adopted kids, since 2002:) She stays completely single until 2039, to be precise (and she was about 25 when she adopted her first set of kids). Long story short, it is a huge kinda crossover fanfic of nothing but original characters but it is a series close to my heart. JG had her kids long before I had my own kids, yet I still love to write them:) I have written all the struggles I have come across and all the ones I could think of, including the kids asking why she is single, and have come up with some pretty nice answers for all of them:)
How big is the sample here?
Other than Todd and Andi, the only possibly single parent I can think of is Truck’s dad, and that guy screwed up biiiiiig.
Andi and Todd, meanwhile, are main characters, and actually kind of subverting a lot of gendered tropes? Honestly I just think it’s too early to make a call.
With respect, your fellow vigilant SJW
Well trucks dad isnt single we saw his mum too. Andi’s mum and the kids teacher are single parents too though from what we know she lost custody of her kid. What I am getting at is we never saw Todd go threw any struggle in his role as parent he just seemed to have it. Andi from the get go people assumed she only wanted amanda to get back with Todd and in the week she has had her had the family get together then this drunk kid issue while she was trying to listen to another parent complain about her kid
Did she lose custody? Or did she not pursue custody? Or is it a split-custody thing and it’s just not her turn this year? We know absolutely nothing about the situation with the teacher’s kid.
Also, Mrs Trunchbull is just as bad of a parent as Mr Trunchbull, just in a different way.
Todd is going through his struggles with Amanda. To be honest, most media portrays single fathers as idiots who need a woman to tell them what to do, so I have no issues with Todd actually being a good dad with a few minor mishaps here and there.
Dave has had the courage to write a main female character who is not perfect. There is also the wise old woman (Lillian). Jessie started off as making mistakes but has grown past all that. Shit, Andi was being a bad person before she ever went for Amanda. She’s becoming a better person having to take care of another person, but it’s a slow process. Remember that at the start of this same school year, she was the kind of person to mess with her roommate’s work, almost getting her roommate fired.
For a comic that’s mostly about family, childcare, and schooling, there’s a good mix of different female characters.
Andi wasn’t Jessie’s roommate. The woman who nearly got Jessie fired was her girlfriend, now her ex; the only connection with Andi is that they live in the same building, and their fight is what inspired Andi’s current work of art.
That was Andi’s sister. She was Jesse’s live-in girlfriend. I agree she was bad. She really almost destroyed Jesse’s practice teaching job. Jesse did the right thing by throwing her out. Andi has lots of issues, but laziness and deliberate cruelty are not part of her mo.
where the heck was it said that Jessie’s(*1) girlfriend(*2) turned out to be ANDI’S SISTER???(*3)
1) the shoe saleslady/teachers assistant
2) the girl that screwed with the kids homework
3) i thought that Andi was a single child, ie no siblings… to me that’s the way the conversation with her mom makes it look, otherwise they surely would have said at least SOMETHING about how her siblings were either better or worse, in that final argument??
Just stating for clarity, but Alexis (Jessie’s ex-girlfriend) is NOT Andi’s sister, although I know where that idea came from.
In one of the Not Quite Secret Director Commentaries, I mentioned that in an earlier draft of the story Alexis and Andi were to be sisters. I cut it out because it had a bit too much “narrative coincidence” to have Andi’s sister be the SO of Amanda’s Assistant Teacher, and currently do not have plans to revive Alexis into the story.
(See my comment further below)
What about Selkie’s teacher? Granted we haven’t seen her being a parent, but we know she is a single mom and she seems like a really decent and responsible person.
Dot hun i did state about the teacher as an example. While she does seem responcible we know she doesnt have custody which begs the question why? Most time judges award child custody to the mum baring exstreme instances where they are seen as unfit parents. She being a teacher while her income may be low she should have custody of the child. Shouldnt she?
I assumed it’s for cultural or religious reasons myself.
same here, i heard recently on NPR radio recently that there is a problem in some Islamic countries having an overcrowded jail system, specifically because they CAN’T let female offenders LEAVE unless they have been signed out by their male protectors, ie: husband or brother… and often the men refuse to do so even AFTER the sentence has been finished… therefore the women stay in jail far longer than they should be, and the jails can’t handle the overcrowding… if she’s from that kind of country originally, then i can definitely see the ex-husband getting full custody in a divorce regardless of HIS “parental fitness quotient”
And also, I think Andi is being shown trying to become a good mom, and a big part of what we are seeing with her is a transformation. In a lot of ways, she’s actually done a really good job dealing with Amanda’s temper issues and giving her consequences for her actions (like when she tried to skip school). Letting your kid (who just came into your custody) drink alcohol is a mistake, but it is a very dangerous one. A child with issues like Amanda should always be under an adult eye for her own protection and protection of the other kids.
Likewise, Todd hasn’t been shown in a perfect light—even though the story started out with him and Selkie being the protagonists. He has moments where he’s oblivious and he has had moments where he has a temper. When he keeps it in check with his kids, he has let it out on Andi in front of them—and it implies he may have had a short fuse in the past (possibly the reason she hid things—not that he was abusive but she was scared of making him emotional).
Since the only single mothers we’ve seen are Andi and her own mom I viewed it more as an example of the way dysfunctional parenting seems to be passed on rather than a commentary on single parenthood. I can understand why that might stand out to you but we haven’t seen any single father’s other than Todd. If Dave chose to create other single father characters who were excelling at parenting and other single moms failing at it I’d be more inclined to agree with you. As it stands now I think it’s just a comparison between two people. One had a supportive family to learn how to be a good parent from. The other is trying to figure it out when all she’s seen from her own parent is manipulation and poor parenting.
Oops I forgot about the teacher.
I have to confess, I’ve struggled with this behnd-the-scenes. With Andi and Patricia (her mother) I think there’s a lot of room to grow in how the mothers of the story are represented. Mina I think is a good mother in a bad situation, but I confess this is mostly in the Behind the Scenes realm and will be good to get “on-screen” one day.
But with Andi, I think she’s got a lot of potential and some work to do, but shows good signs. She gave up her bed and exiled herself to the fold-out-couch so Amanda could have her own space. Sometimes she displays inaction, other times she’s quick to call Amanda out on poor behavior (telling her off for messing with the alarm clock, scolding her for bickering with Selkie).
Ultimately I think some of the reactions to Andi can be a bit… hyperbolic, and that colors impressions of her as a character. She has a lot of potential and a lot to offer to the people in her life.
In early drafts of the story, I killed her off. Semi truck, head-on-collision, Todd got both the Big Secret reveal and custody on her deathbed.
I think we can all agree that would have been a terrible idea, but more to the point I’m glad I didn’t stick to that plan because Andi is more valuable than that sort of Fridge behavior. She’s got a lot to give, and I think she helps make the comic that much better, mistakes and all.
Todd is, at times, a bit too perfect. I agree with you on that. Dialing back his propensity for Natural 20s is something I’ve tried to work on behind the scenes, without doing a massive character-breaking mistake like taking him in the full opposite direction. He doesn’t need to degrade into a Peter Griffin style mockery of fatherhood, but toning his natural easy success down a bit is something I try to look out for opportunities to do.
Seeing the difference between Todd’s and Andi’s childhoods and their (final) parents has actually helped. Neither of Andi’s parents are what I’d consider good parents (assuming her father is a deadbeat dad). Todd’s adoptive parents are kind, patient good people who we see parenting/grandparenting well (and the positive outcomes of it in their adult children). This is a big part of why I didn’t consider gender an issue. I’m glad you didn’t have Andi killed off. She is a very interesting character and has a lot of potential. Love seeing the relationship between her and Amanda develop.
I really think Todds refusal to forgive Andi is a perfect grounding for his character in terms of not being perfect. Its a reasonable yet selfish response that is very real. Him being ‘perfect’ or less fallible in parenthood is believable to an extent as he has planed all of his moves and actions. He may make a bad move in an unexpected situation but he is a planner and a thinker so his mistake count would be a lot lower then a reactionary fight or flight person. Todd has for years planned his adoption prepared and readied himself for most common eventualities and like with lashing out at Mina he has a limit to his patience when his planning doesn’t pan out.
*nodnod* You are the writer, after all:) And, if you want to know the secret, always recall your characters’ flaws. We have seen I think one of Todd’s: His indiscrete impulse towards Mina. Give him at least another flaw. Maybe a mundane one that comes up often but we haven’t seen yet?
Just watch it will be that comment of mine that gets me baned for life or something. Never speak up never speak your mind for no one cares
Wrong, wrong, and again wrong. Read through the comments again. It’s filled with people having intelligent debates about real world issues. If you wish to voice a concern about something, feel free to speak up and speak your mind because we all care.
That seens to be all i am just wrong to you lot.
Huh.
I tend to assume that people raising questions about important real-life ramifications of tropes used are for real and serious, even if they are not very gracious, but here I think you might be a troll after all.
I am not a troll I am just a frustrated soul who sees this arc if it continues ends with Andi being forced to give Amanda up again or Amanda assuming after this she really is broken and screw up who cant be redeemed. But thanks for assuming I am a troll….
Ha—there have been commentors here (including a couple regulars) who’s comments are a zillion times more “trollish” (obtuse and sometimes downright rude) than Ziska-san. I think Ziska-san does bring up some interesting points to discuss (even if I don’t 100% agree with them) and is actually appears polite about it.
Thank you dot. I should have been more diplotmatic about it and i an sorry about that.
Naw. Someone usually has to be ultra-nasty/offensive to get banned here and even they usually get a warning before that happens.
Yeah, I was gonna say….
Ziska-san, how new are you to this fandom, that you have this idea that disagreeing with the majority has some negative effect on your ability to have a friendly discussion with the rest of the fans here?
It would hardly be a nice community if we couldn’t disagree with each other. Being able to disagree is an important component of Free Speech.
Got a bit longer reply to type up to the initial point, so typing this short one first, but please be assured that you’re in no danger of a banning for simply criticizing or disagreeing with my story decisions or my characters. I’m not an author who labels every piece of dissenting opinion as “trolling”, and this is even more true with someone who has been reading and commenting for a long while now such as yourself.
I can count the people I’ve banned on one hand, and the last guy I banned earned it by consistently making sexist slurs even after being asked to stop. And after banning he started using fake names to submit racial and sexual insults just to try andslip them past the radar. Even sent me an MSPaint “fan art” of Selkie and Todd performing a sex act for I don’t even know what reason. Probably shock value.
But yeah, THAT’S the sort of stuff I ban for. Disagreeing with my or disliking how the characters are portrayed is nothing to ban over. I consider posting and alowing critical commentary to be healthy, personally. Quality discussion needs dissenting viewpoints.
We love you, Dave!
Okay, I haven’t said this enough before, but I wish I had a Lillian. She is absolutely glorious and would make be a great mother, aunt, older friend or mentor. The closest I had was a beautiful woman who passed away a decade ago (I gave my daughter her name for her middle name).
I will say i do love lillian a lot too and i know she is being protective of amanda cause drinking in public is. Huge no no and Andi should have kept Amanda by her side like Heather while her attention was forced else where. But that is something as a parent you learn. I really hope all this bad crap and stuff at the end we can see Andi being a good parent too. I worry amanda is going to end up worse state cause of this.
I think we will. We’ve already seen her doing a lot of good things. I think we’ll see her gain a lot of confidence and perhaps make peace with her and Todd’s relationship having ended (just a guess—only Dave knows their future 🙂 ). A theme in Selkie seems to be how children *and* new parents change when they find one another.
Amanda is a smart cookie with a lot of street smarts. Even under the influence she’s sober enough to know when things get real here. It’s gonna be a rough journey for both Andi and Amanda, but I believe they can pull it off.
There is never anything wrong with your opinion or your voicing here, as Dave has stated 🙂 I would like to comment on your comment about Lillian and say that, as a previously portrayed perfect character, it is nice to see a potential flaw in Lillian. Love her, sure, but her being more real because of this jumping-on-Andi is gonna make her more awesome in my opinion, because it adds the potential that, for once, Lillian isn’t doing quite the right thing at the right time. She may even be projecting her own shock and guilt at not protecting Amanda onto Andi. Who knows:) I guess next strip we will see if Todd steps in, chews Andi out, too, or just stays back. I am hoping to see a flaw or two of Todd’s in all this:) Go, Writer Dave, go!
Hu-frickin-zzah. It’s about time Andi got chewed out.
She’s lucky that’s all she got (versus Amanda being removed from her custody). It was a human mistake, but a child like Amanda needs to be watched very carefully for her and other children’s protection. And things could have ended up a lot worse—like with Amanda getting alcohol poisoning.
There seems to be a lot of focus on the fact that Andy brought a lot of minors without the place being prepared for it, and that might be why things got out of hand, but I don’t think that’s the issue here. The main issue is that Amanda is a special needs child. It is true that under normal circumstances a parent can not be expected to follow around their child 24/7 knowing EVERYTHING they do, but Amanda is not a normal child. She is heavily traumatized, sometimes showing mild PTSD symptoms, has huge trust issues, and has generally not been raised very well (No hard feelings against Lillian, but an institution can never replace actual parents) . All these things mean that Andy, as her parent and primary caretaker HAS to be more alert than a regular parent. Under normal circumstances a child wouldn’t, while her mother is defending her, walk away and go to a “juice”stand and chug 3 full glasses of “juice” despite no less than TWO adults yelling at her to stop (to the people who say they do “virtually nothing” to stop her. In this day and age, unfortunately, grabbing a strangers child to stop them from misbehaving or endangering themselves is as likely to land you in court as to net you thanks). I’m not saying Andy is a bad parent, or even that Amanda is a brat, what I’m saying is that Andy NEEDS to be on top of the ball at all times, because, whereas a normal parent has a duty of trying to keep their child from being damaged physically or psychologically, Amanda is already damaged, and needs special treatment. Amanda needs to be an above average parent, being decent just isn’t good enough, and I think that is the point Lillian is trying to make.
All true except for one point.
It’s Andi, not Andy.
Other than than, well said.
Right, my mistake 🙂
And of course it’s “Andi needs to be an above average parent” not “Amanda needs to be an above average parent”
I have to agree as much as Lilian isn’t wrong to give Andi a reminder of her duty as Amanda’s Mother… this isn’t all on Andi. Watching a kid 24/7 isn’t always easy. Also she had another parent getting in her face, that can be very distracting, especially when they’re bad-mouthing your kid and your parenting.
Also… seriously the two vendors SHOULD BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE!! F*ck them! I’ve worked vending like them where you serve alcohol at events where kids come! Yes Amanda was being a quick-grabby brat, but the instant she grabbed the first one; one of them should have called for security or somebody of authority that they had a problem, while another started to move the drinks AWAY from the child. The fact she got multiple drinks in is a FAILURE on their part and grounds for a major dressing down and your ass being fired. My God they even failed to tell Amanda the ‘grape juice’ was alcohol which most kids know is FOR ADULTS ONLY! Maybe she wouldn’t have listened but they dun f*cked up and should have their asses thrown out of the art gallery.
In regards to “Well Amanda’s got issues so Andi should have watched her better!” I agree, yes that is where I agree she failed; and that is where Lilian deserves to give her a reminder she needs to step up her role as a Mother.
But the extent of the blame; no Andi’s human and had a legitimate roadblock taking her attention in the form of Kenneth, Heather’s Dad; who started a verbal dressing down IN PUBLIC, so HE is the one who wears the crown of instigation and started the domino effect. Sure Andi could have told him to piss off, then ignore him; but would Kenneth let it end there? Would he? No, so Andi’s attention was going to be stolen by Ken, because he was damn intent on letting her have it.
The only opening she might have had to get away and check on Amanda was when Todd showed up; but Andi strikes me as someone who would want to handle her own battles as much as she’d appreciate Todd coming to bat for her (or more precisely Amanda).
In short lots of blame to go around, and I feel Andi isn’t the deserver of the brunt of it.
How about all the other adults that were RIGHT THERE and not doing a damn thing? Nobody would be talking like this to someone while knowing these facts.
ha! the S.E.P. Field gets erected REALLLY Fast when you start talking about some “innocent bystander” getting INVOLVED in stuff like this…
nope, gladly we’ll sit back in our easy-chairs and make snide comments and arm-chair quarterback the S#%T out of things, but we won’t lift a finger to prevent them, because of “P.C.” bull… that and it’s both funny to watch someone ELSE do slap-stick comedy, and at the same time, that they’re also terrified that they will get sued if they DO do something, so they DON’T…
Wow.. this one generated a lot of discussion Dave! Good Job. 🙂
I’m going try my hand at predicting the future. I think this scene and the previous scene sets up almost perfectly the chance for Todd to ‘come to the rescue’ and defend Andi against Lillian.
My 2 cents.
I dunno… Todd’s not even on this page. Look at Amanda’s face. I think she might speak up first.
And if that’s what Lillian was planning to have happen, well, fine. But otherwise… she just took her eyes off Tony, despite HIS known behavioral problems — and of course he’s going for something he shouldn’t have. (Sandi too, but espresso is rather worse for kids than sugar.) So unless she is able to be in two places at once, she’s making the exact same mistake she’s reaming Andi out for, right this very moment!
(Oh, and don’t forget that, any page now, Kenneth and Heather are also going to be walking into this cafe.)
She made the same mistake at the art show too. Lillian wasn’t watching all of them all the time there either. Lillian just comes across as a hypocrite here. Maybe deep down she feels regret for failing to get Amanda proper help and she’s projecting this on to Andi.
Too True! I hadn’t thought from that angle re: Tony. Hmmm..
As for Todd not being in the scene.. he was standing right next to her in the previous comic, so the camera angle shifted and doesn’t catch him in the scene at the moment, but I have no doubt he’s there.. lurking… in the background.
But seriously you bring up good points! I seems like an explosion is on the way.
I agree that Todd’s right there. I just noticed that he was kept off-screen via camera angles for this page, which made me think he might not be the first to speak up on the next.
I’m wondering if we’ll be seeing a confrontation between TODD and Lillian shortly. He was quick enough to step up to Ken, let’s see how he handles this. After all, HE was right there too and whether or not Lillian knew it at the time, he’s Amanda’s father.
Yep. TODD knew he was Amanda’s father, even if Lillian did not LOL.
I still think Lillian may be projecting just a tad — throwing her own shock and frustration and guilt onto someone else/blaming them for what she feels may also be her own fault. I mean, how often has she been wrong? Probably not a lot. People like that… sometimes it hurts bad when they are wrong, and it shows.
Hey! Sorry about the traffic court thing. Hope they weren’t too hard on you!
I have to go back in a month because I requested supervision and they had nothing planned for that option! >_<
Requested supervision? What does that mean?
i see it now, Dave is in the courtroom: “Yes, your Honor, i would like to request X-Ray Vision so that in the future i can see THRU the car ahead of me in order to see the car ahead OF HIM step on his brakes, in time enough that “I” can step on MY brakes in order to not cause a rear-end collision”
hmmph… if only we could get Super Powers THAT easily!?
more than likely it means that Dave disagrees with the cops ticket, and that he wants to get seen in court so he can state his side of the case and maybe get the ticket (I’m assuming there IS a ticket?) reduced/thrown out entirely… but the in going to the court THIS time was only to find out that the court schedule required he set another date for the ACTUAL hearing to take place…
Ha, I wish it was that dramatic.
“Supervision” basically means you plead guilty and pay the fines, but if you keep ticket-free for X amount of time, you don’t get a hit to your insurance rates.
Andi wasn’t Jessie’s roommate. The woman who nearly got Jessie fired was her girlfriend, now her ex; the only connection with Andi is that they live in the same building, and their fight is what inspired Andi’s current work of art.
I’m not going to try to tally up all the different types of family units we’ve seen, and correlate them to how good they seem to be at parenting, to see if Dave has been unfair to one such group. But I think the absolute worst parenting job that we have any evidence of is the Sandersons’ treatment of Amanda, and as far as I know, they were the traditional husband-and-wife-and-kids variety.
Hahah…. lillian laying down the law! love it!!
I will put my vote into the Lillian not taking all of the circumstances into account. Even if Andi could be Amanda’s shadow all the time, that would be emotionally problematic too.
what I can’t wait to see is what KEN’S reaction will be for him and Heather stepping into the middle of THIS conversation, is going to be like…