Just a little dressing-down.
Reminder: I am currently accepting guest strip submissions for a short two-week hiatus I will be taking after this arc conludes. Deadline is December 1st.
Theo's suggestion is a Grand Melee. Sharpen your blades, polish your armor, thump your squire 'twixt the eyes to cure sloth.
Oh Theo, please continue to be the voice of reason. Theo is seriously becoming my favorite person.
If only more of us had Theos in our lives…
Hell, Maris and Todds too, but Theo especially.
Anyone else think Theo is being manipulative and passive aggressive? “If you don’t do XYZ, you surely don’t mean you’ve been eaten up inside or that you want to make things right. Do XYZ to -prove- it!”
As long as his suggestion to “prove it” isn’t something along the lines of “sign over custody of Amanda to us/Todd,” then I’m reserving judgement on that for now.
After what she’s done, not particularly. I won’t rehash it, everyone is tired of the argument. But sometimes, one must prove their honesty. Nothing wrong with it in this situation.
I don’t get it. Why the harsh treatment? She was weak, and allowed a manipulative woman to control her. That was pretty much it. It wasn’t even her lack of responsibility, it was her mom telling her not to associate with THOSE PEOPLE.
I dare anyone to tell me they have never dropped the ball on something important. It’s eating her up, and these guys keep belaboring it.
It’s not the adoption I have a problem with. I have an aunt my grandmother was forced to adopt out at a time when an unmarried mother’s life was completely ruined. What happened happened and is in the past.
What I give Andi a harsh time about was the 8 years of lies. At some point Andi no longer had to keep up the lies. But she allowed that lie to fester like an urn full of tree ashes. She allowed Todd to wake up every day beating himself up for not being there. Not holding his daughter before she died. And believe me, Todd was doing that. Speaking from experience there.
Andi violated their trust with a lie. That’s what the betrayal line is about. She put them through hell just to hold onto what she had, because the truth would have made her lose that. It was a selfish move for selfish reasons.
Then when she came clean, what was the first thing she did? Try to rekindle a dead relationship with a man that was processing that all the pain he was feeling was not only unnecessary, but could have been taken care of by getting his daughter who now has mental problems with rage and self loathing and getting her the help she needed.
So yes, she did show a criminal level of irresponsibility. Responsibility is not never making a mistake. It’s about how you act after the mistakes.
Nope. It’s a rare person when their trust has been broken so deeply and betrayed so badly, that they accept the person without some assurance that they won’t do it again. Andi has broken their trust and betrayed, not just with Todd and his parents but really, with Amanda too. This is going to be a big fix, not a little sweep it under the carpet thing, for Amanda and Selkie’s sake it has to be fixed. That trust has to be restored.
Got to agree with Kiri on this one. It’s a lousy situation to be sure, but I’m positive that if I were in a situation similar to this, either from the parent or grandparent perspective, I wouldn’t be so forgiving. At least he’s giving her some chance at redemption.
But that’s none of my business *sips Lipton tea*
Well ‘Sir Thomas’ might be your bag, but in Chai-Town we drink Yogi tea. Especially if you have a Kuffa, you need a large dosha. That’s a trick I learned from my Vata, cuz he was a wise-guy.
I don’t think Theo is that type of person… if he does say that and Mari and Todd agree they are effectively the worst people for it. I know they won’t demand that, they’re nice people, just angry and hurt.
This was in response to the custody thing.
Besides, Theo is on the ball. He may demand some proof she’s not just a lying liar who lies, but his requirement of proof might be something to help her heal as well and improve Amanda’s life.
As much as I can’t stand Andi and take shots at her, she’s still a wounded woman who does need to heal. Heaven knows her current support base is completely useless for that. And if Theo’s requirements help with that, then good. nothing wrong with it at all.
In other words, let’s watch and see what the old man is up to.
Look at his face. Passive aggressiveness does NOT involve a sad face like that. Believe me, my late mother had her moments with passive aggressiveness.
Nope. In fact, he is probably is trying to mitigate problems with Todd and Mari. My guess is that while he is hurt, he KNOW Mari and Todd are VERY hurt and angry. He recognizes her feelings on the matter, and he is probably more easily convincable that she feels bad, but Mari and Todd are probably going to mistrust Andi without some proof that she is on the level.
Not enough yelling. But definitely good progress.
Real grown-ups can deal with an upsetting situation without yelling, real grown-ups don’t take someone who is feeling bad and apologizing as an opportunity to kick them while they’re down and make the other person feel worse just because.
Thank you for the ableism. It’s so refreshing and wonderful.
I kind of have to side on the “I’m not getting it” camp, here. What group is Blue Coyote’s statement minimizing to qualify as ableism?
You mean like how you didn’t understand or even try to understand when another user was being transphobic? Like that?
Methinks the want of the ban hammer is strong in this one.
And mes agrees
For pointing out that someone has been ableist? I should be banned over that?
The comment about Nate was made, and discussed, life moves on. I’m simply not interested in being an author who stands on a soapbox to berate people who say things he disagrees with.
But you seem to enjoy berating and verbally bludgeoning people who disagree with you or say things you don’t like, don’t you?
LadyObvious, I have no problem with your stances or your beliefs, but I am getting really tired of how you choose to present them.
You attack everyone who says things you don’t like with vicious insults. If anyone disagrees with you, you dig your heels in and insist they are horrible people simply because they don’t align with your own politics or opinions. No one is allowed to disagree with you, and if they do you treat them like shit instead of discussing the matter.
I’m tired of it. I try to take a light hand with this comment section, but your behavior makes me dread opening my inbox, and frankly I’m not putting up with you picking fights anymore.
This is the only notice I am going to give you on the issue. No more calling names, no more picking fights. Settle it down, keep your discussions about the comic, and stop making personal attacks on other readers. If it keeps up I’m going to start moderating your comments, because I’m really fucking tired of firestorms in my commentary. Stop it.
For everyone else, the cessation of personal attacks ALSO includes ones directed at LadyObvious, for the record. This includes “Yes, ban them!” “Thanks for telling them off!” and other such comments. Please don’t do that.
Attack? I literally stated something and Blue had to come in and add something like that. But hey. It’s literally “attacking” when what she said is ableist. And attacking when I pointed out something that had been transphobic was transphobic.
Yes. I’m totally the attacker. Everytime when I point things like that out. Every. Single. Time. All I do is bludgeon people. You caught me.
You made a comment about wanting more yelling. Blue Coyote made a comment about more yelling being unnecessary and unhealthy. You started calling names and throwing insulting labels on people.
You’re the one who became aggressive about it, not her.
I was annoyed not angry. I told her it was gross. What I wrote was that I liked this. I like where this is heading. I’m hoping they’ll all get this out in the open and that Amanda doesn’t hear something awful. Telling Blue what she said is ableist isn’t name calling.
You don’t see saying “your word are ableist” as being the same thing as saying “you are ableist”?
Except they’re something she believes in and acted on. She was being ableist. It isn’t name calling.
So… calling a thing someone believes an insulting term, is not the same as calling the person themselves an insulting term?
So ableist and transphobic are insults now?
…How are they not?
Transphobic is used when cis people say or do nasty things to trans people. Not always overt or intentional but very nasty.
Ableist. When you say things that are slurs,do horrid things to or anything offhandedly nasty like “real adults take care of themselves and don’t yell”.
That’s not what “ableist” means at all. Ableism already HAS a determined definition, regarding people with disabilities. That word does not mean what you are using it for. The behavior you described is called “passive-aggression”.
Except no. That isn’t,Dave. Slurs are apart of ableism.
Slurs are a part of EVERY -ism.
Yes and I’m talking about ableism right now. And what I said was definitely what ableism is.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ableism
“discrimination or prejudice against individuals with disabilities”
It has nothing to do with general offhanded slurs, it SPECIFICALLY refers to discrimination against those with disabilities.
Except there’s more to it than just that.
Blue came to my comment about the yelling this time around. I literally told her what she said wasn’t okay. People got upset and told me that I was a troll. So…yeah. No. I don’t come here to just pick fights. I’ve been enjoying the comic. And I’ve been saying that.
I know you enjoy the comic, and I’m happy and grateful for that. But responding to people who disagree with your opinions on it by throwing insults and labels on them is unhelpful.
Except transphobic and ableist aren’t insults. They’re telling someone that what they said is gross.
If it was me, I’d consider it as tantamount to being called the term directly. It’s indirect name-calling.
Except they’re not. And being insulted by being called what you’re doing is kinda privileged. You’re not trans or disabled. Like I’m white. Being told that something I’ve said is racist doesn’t mean they’re calling me it. It means they’re telling me what I said is bad and I should stop it.
“Privileged”. What? -_-
Also, I don’t really believe that if someone told you directly “You’re being racist”, that you wouldn’t be insulted by that.
Have people asked you about your body? Doubt that you’re a man? Do they treat you differently or talk down to you? Then your privileged.
I wouldn’t. :/ I still do racist things that I need to unlearn and would listen to the person.
So… I’m not allowed to be hurt or offended by anything you call me, because I’m not trans?
If you call me transphobic, that is a direct insult. It’s implying a hatred or oppression of trans people. I would, and DO, consider being called that highly bothersome and offensive. You clearly mean it AS an insult because every time you use it, it’s to slam people who’ve offended you for behavior you don’t like.
Never said that. No it isn’t. It’s telling you what you’ve done is transphobic and if being told that is offensive. Maybe you need to reevaluate what you said. It’s not an insult to slam people. And I’ve used it to describe people who have been it.
“Behaviour you didn’t like” isn’t calling someone out on their harmful crap and stereotyping nastiness.
I think you need to stop acting like everything you say is right just because you decreed it to be so.
Also I find it funny that in the same conversation where you claim you would take it to heart if someone called you racist, you respond to me telling you “I find it offensive to be called transphobic” with a defense on why you’re right to call me that and I’m wrong.
You find it funny that if someone told you that your actions were transphobic,you’d be offended and angry? And that I would listen when someone told me what I said was harmful and would listen?
No I find it funny that you claim you would take it to heart if told your actions are offensive, yet when I tell you I find an action of yours offensive you respond by telling me I’m wrong to feel that way.
Except what I said was that you need to reevaluate what you said. 😐
And I didn’t say a God damned thing. Your whole assumption is presumptuous.
I reviewed what I said. It basically says if you’re offended by being called out on this reevaluate what you said and essentially what you did. Not that you’re doing it.
So, what you’re saying is that you were speaking in general, not specifically at me? Because I did not get that at all.
Well. Yeah,I was speaking in general and not you specifically. I should’ve clarified that,I’m sorry.
No worries. I get messed up by the General You sometimes. Sorry I over-reacted.
It’s alright.
“Real adults”…get away from me. I said it was even good progress. You’re so ableist.
I guess while the term ‘real grown ups’ are subjective, I’ve mostly associated it with the ideal example an adult should be as a person and a role model to others especially kids. Be cool and calm, know when to be emotional or reign it in. No need to start un-needed drama, or be like every half-baked written character on TV today who has to yell and scream their point across.
So in that terminology, Blue Coyote isn’t wrong for the usage of ‘real adults’.
Also ableist means you discriminate against someone with a disability, so for God’s sake please use words in context of the situation! All you’re doing is coming off as a troll and rude.
Yo. What she said is ableist. Stop excusing it and pretending it isn’t.
I’m actually quite confused at this assertion. I’ve only recently run into the term “ableist” (and “ableism”) and I thought I had them down, but your usage here makes me question if I have the wrong definition in my head.
Is it the case that people who have to resort to yelling at other adults have some sort of disability I didn’t realize? (I know that some people have anger-control issues — is that what you mean?) Is the term “real” a trigger word now? What’s going on?
Wow. Just wow. Thanks for your shit. Fuck off.
I understand wanting to fight ableism and all that, but not everyone is familiar with it and right now it’s unclear to a lot of people what exactly you mean. Just throwing around accusations doesn’t help anyone, but if you explain what the problem is people will understand if they’re doing something wrong more easily.
That being said your posts kinda makes me think you’re just trolling.
Trolling because what you said is kinda crap? 😐 Like wow. Not here to teach you. Nor am I required to.
You come off as an idiot right now.
Expecting adults to act like adults when the situation calls for it is not ableism, it’s common sense.
Except no. This is ableist. ?
I’m going to have to side with the others in that I just don’t get why you are calling the situation in the comic ableist. “Ableism” is related to minimizing the struggles and presence of people with disabilities or discriminating against those who are disabled or differently-abled, and no such matters have been brought up in this storyline.
I’m also becoming a little annoyed with the way that when others have asked you to defend or explain your statement that the situation is ableist, you dig in your heels and insist that it simply is just because you say so and that there’s no need to go further. I’m sorry, but I’m also going to have to ask you to explain why you are calling it that. Because I’m a bit offended you think the situation I’ve written is in some way discriminating against the disabled.
It’s not exactly that. It can be researched by others here. But insisting that someone isn’t a “real adult” for screaming at a human being like Andi for all the trauma. Pain. And crap when people would definitely be pretty,angry and yelling over something like this. Is ableist. Is gross. And there’s no excuse for it.
You don’t get to make up your own definitions of words, it’s not how language works.
? Uh huh….
Ableism only refers to discriminating against someone due to their disability. No one is aware of what disability you refer to and you refuse to explain, you only double down on your insistence. Also, no one said someone isn’t a “real adult” for screaming, the only thing said was that real adults CAN solve a fight without screaming. I’m pretty sure most people know that everyone screams sometimes.
With that said I ask you to please stop. You are being unnecessarily aggressive towards people that for the most part would love to be respectful if you only gave them a reason and in doing so you are turning people away from fighting against ableism or even listening to people when they try to explain when something is ableist. You are making my fight much harder. If you don’t have the spoons or emotional energy to explain to someone who clearly is interested in learning it is usually best to back out of the fight.
With love, an autistic girl who uses a wheelchair and got in the fight against ableism when left at a bus stop in 117 degree weather eight years ago.
I don’t want to drag this out any further but I feel like I would like to at least say that I didn’t mean at all for that to be ableist and I am a little bewildered how it was. If one of the characters had Tourettes and I said something like ‘they just need their mouth washed out with soap’ that would be ableist and bs because they have a condition. No one in this scene has anything other than painful life history and I was particularly meaning in my comment that I expected Theo and Marti to be able to handle their anger and hurt without raising their voices. I’d like to point out also that for people who grew up in abusive households people yelling no matter how justified is very upsetting and triggering. And finally for the record- I have an autistic stepson, I am the person on the subway chewing out perfect strangers for using the r-word.
I wouldn’t worry about appearing discriminatory towards disabled folks. LadyObvious is using a definition of ableism that means “general slurs and offhand nastiness.”
I would love to see Andi get yelled at. Please, someone, if you’re going to make a guest strip and can make a funny one where Andi get’s scolded a blue storm, by all means do, please.
That said, I look at Amanda and I see a little girl that wants to play. She TRIED to play for hell’s sakes! Look at that marker war. That was a little girl desperate to play. But she’s been at war with herself and others so much that she couldn’t. I have sung this song myself. It can be so difficult at times to get along with others when you’re so damned worried about if they’re going to screw you over.
Yelling at Andi would sadly just amount to stress relief. Sometimes you can get a point across without shouting. Sometimes you need to yell at your target. But when there’s a child involved, the child’s needs override what you want. THAT’S what being a grown up is about. Understanding the needs of the ones who need it most. And yelling would only compound Amanda’s problems.
I said up there that I hope Theo’s requirement of proof helps Andi heal because she needs it as a wounded woman. If anything positive comes from this, I hope it’s the whole thing becomes a house of healing. Amanda needs it most of all, but even Todd needs to sit and heal from the pain caused by eight years of lies. If anything, screw what Andi needs, Amanda and Todd have pain that must be taken care of. Screaming will not stop this pain.
Someone who’s an enabler is someone who actively does something in which enforces bad behavior. Kicking someone while they’re down and outnumbered is wrong. I’m glad Theo is here, without him I feel like Todd and Mari would just go full douchebag on Andi. Theo is the rock here, the one who is trying to get to the bottom of things, the one who is staying calm for the girls AND for Andi.
‘Douchebag’. Funny cuz she’s done something horrific and traumatizing. And them telling her what she deserves to hear is being a ‘douchebag’.
What you think she needs to hear isn’t what she needs to hear. She needs to be spoken to and in turn respond like an adult. Adults don’t scream and throw fits because they disagree with something. Adults talk out their problems and resolve them. Andi was treated very much like a child a majority of her young adult life and therefor continues to respond like a child.
They need to talk to her, yes, they need to express their hurt, but they don’t need to be petty and hurt her back to get some blind form of justice.
Thanks so much for repeating the bullshit ableist crap. And Hell no. Now is a great time to yell at someone like Andi. What she did was horrific.
Count me as another in the “just don’t get it” camp. Please tell us which disability is being disregarded here by those commenters you’re calling “ableist”. The impression you’ve left so far is that you don’t know what the word means.
…are you actually claiming that name-calling is a disability?
Wow. No. Not even close. At all. But thanks for being an ass and pretending to understand it. Cuz obviously you don’t. -__-
Then what ARE you saying is “ableist”? What disability do you believe is being ignored here? You haven’t said. Not once.
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2y8Sx4B2Sk
It isn’t just making fun of a disability. It’s literally a lot of things that neurotypical people say or do to nonneurotypical people. Like slurs,denying jobs and things that Blue has friggin said.
Non-neurotypical. Now we’re getting somewhere. You’ve at least named the disability you’re talking about. I am slightly less bewildered.
If someone suffers from an actual neurological disorder that makes them unable to respond to feelings of anger with anything other than screaming, that is indeed a severe handicap. If that happens to be your predicament, then you have my sympathy. It must make social interaction very difficult.
Even though there are people like you, it’s not a good idea to assume that everyone who resorts to yelling at the least provocation is doing so because of a neurological condition. In most people, such behaviour is an early-childhood response retained long past the time when it should have been outgrown. It is not ‘ableist’ to expect those people to learn a better response. They can, and they are choosing not to.
Yeah no. What Blue has said is ableist. Stop it.
You mean enabler. Ableist is something entirely different, which is why so many people are confused.
No. This isn’t. It is ableist. Stop.
People who need to yell at someone before they feel better have a severe self-control problem that is damaging their personal relationships, regardless of whether or not they want to admit it.
My parents were of the “you have to scream to communicate” type. (Yes, my mother’s words.) As a victim of this method of parenting, I’m cheering how this comic models real adult behavior in this context.
Yelling only works if it makes a point (as in there’s real danger or you caught the perpetrator in the act); when it’s just to make somebody feel “better” because “they did something” about what/who triggered their anger it leads to blind hatred, lying, and unwillingness to discuss problems that need to be taken care of when somebody screws up. Nobody wants to rage trigger someone unwilling to control their temper, particularly when the person yelling is so enthralled with making themselves feel better that they don’t care what innocent bystanders are having sound needles driven through their ear drums in the process.
In real life, the loss of vocal control is the intro step to loss of physical control, it’s the gateway to abusive behavior. Yelling in this a situation like this isn’t going to erase the past, it’s not going to make Andi feel worse, and it’s not going to make anything better with both girls in the next room listening for every word so what is the point?
They’ve had days to get over the initial shock, there is no reason they shouldn’t exercise self-control in this situation and plenty for why they should. For obvious instance, modeling how Selkie and Amanda can repair the damage between them now that they’re stuck being sisters.
Yes, everybody yells at some point. Everybody loses their cool. But unless you have a real reason that isn’t ‘it makes me feel better’ (please note ‘they deserved it’ devolves to ‘until I feel better’ because you’re inserting yourself as the angel of vengeance in order to make yourself feel better) that loss of self-control is on your own head and it is NOT okay. Understandable maybe, but still a jackass maneuver. It is wise to recognize the difference.
Andi is getting her comeuppance, a person who acts like that loses the relationships that matter if they don’t get serious about making large changes in their life. Nothing that gets said, yelled, or forced down Andi’s throat at this point is going to do more to teach her than being forced to live with the damage the lies she’s already told has.
imo.
Ableism: Descrimination in favor for able-bodied people.
Explain please.
Enabler: A person who encourages or enables negative or self-destructive behavior in another person.
This is what you mean. You mean we are enabling Andi by not killing her and subsequently desicrating and burning her remains in order to atone for her sins.
What you mean to say is enabling or enabler. Ableism is Descrimination against people with disabilities. So unless you consider one of the following characters disabled you are using this term wrong.
Are you implying Selkie is disabled because of her species? Are you implying Amanda is disabled because she’s adopted? Are you implying Andi is disabled because she lied? Are you implying Todd and his parents are disabled because they aren’t yelling?
Are you insulting each character currently involved here because you are grossly misinformed?
Perhaps you can provide a link or description of what ableism is to you. Please provide evidence to back up your claim of what ableism is.
Otherwise you mean enabler.
Which you do.
By which I mean you mean enabler.
Because that’s what you’re saying.
Enabler.
Except it’s more than that. Like transphobia is more than cisgendered people give a shit about.
No I don’t. I don’t at all. What Blue said is shit. That’s what I’m calling ableist. Knock it off.
Gotta say, it’s good to see you admit your immaturity in an open forum – from your previous comments, I wouldn’t have thought you capable of it.
Yes. Totally immature for calling someone ableist. How dare I.
i’m pretty sure ladyobvious is just trolling at this point
Wow. I ain’t. But thanks!
Exactly. Don’t those people know that when someone calls them ableist over the internet, it’s their job to just accept it and not ask the person calling them that to explain what it is they mean?
Seriously, all you’ve really done is call people ableist and refused to clarify what was so ableist about their remarks and have simply defaulted to telling people to fuck off, which sounds like something a teenager would do.
Yes that’s all I’ve done. I should just teach people when they act like that and get upset whenever anyone points out they’re saying something ableist or transphobic. Especially when they don’t want to listen.
Transphobic? I’m scanning the page here to see any mention of anything transgender at all and finding nothing. Please do point it out to us, I think you’ll find that, rather than no one “wanting to listen”, everyone here would want to know what’s gotten you so upset.
That’s a reference to previous commentaries. TLDR: I wrote a short scene with a trans supporting character, comments were made about him, the word transphobia came into use.
People were referring to Nate as a woman.
Yes I remember that.
One of them was a massive twerf who even said she’d rather be transphobic than sexist and was awful.
Aah I see, thank you for clarifying, I was getting very confused. That’s awful, although I must say I don’t see why it’s being discussed in this particular comment thread. I came down to the comments just to see peoples thoughts on this strip and found a riot! BTW, super impressed by how well the issues in the current arc are being handled, beautifully done, Dave!
What this is coming down to is Ladyobvious is upset about something probably unrelated to the Selkie comic. This rage is making her thrash at people and she can’t explain why without the jig being up.
I would love it if one of the people she accuses of ableism or transphobia was disabled or trans. Just for a shot of reality.
Except this is ableist. I ain’t a she. And there have been transphobic users who called a transman a woman instead of a man.
A transman father got referred to as a woman or feminine by some users. I called them out on it and people said I was lying about it being transphobic.
Yeah, totally immature to stomp your feet and call other people names, rather than, just once, explaining what exactly it is they´re doing wrong.
Because other people here – the evil discriminating ableists – have made it very very clear they´re not getting what you are offended about.
“Stomping your feet”. Yep. Totally what I’m doing when I called her ableist. It’s totally just me being offended. EYUP. You caught me.
To quote the great Jim Henson: What the fuck are you talking about?
You’ve gone full SJW on us. You use a different definition of ableism and won’t tell anyone what you mean. Under that situation, yes it is your job to explain. People don’t magically learn things by osmosis. I think you used the term ableism wrong and just don’t want to admit you’re wrong.
Now you’re a “die cis scum” and “check your privilege” short of giving me a bingo on my tumblr bingo card.
To everyone else I apologize for the rant. The lady was vexing me.
Congrats. No actual “SJW” says that. I ain’t here to educate you. But what the fuck ever.
And I could care less about your opinion. See, I never care about people who whine. My statement is more to entertain the others. Reaching out to you is futile.
For anyone still reading, when someone says they don’t need to teach you, they’re bellyaching to bellyache. Nothing more.
Except no. They’re not. They’re pointing out that they’re not the spokesperson for their group and you need to learn on your own way.
Here’s the thing since you seemingly are calming down. In a healthy conversation, people define their terms. This prevents confusion and streamlines things for ease.
You talk about what people do in reference to screaming at Andi. Not everyone would scream, and it would be uncharacteristic of at least Theo. Todd has had time to take a step back. And Mari. Oh Mari. Mothers have better weapons than screaming. Yes, there are people that would scream. But Dave must choose what fits the narrative as he sees it.
So please, enough about ableism when the term doesn’t fit by anyone’s defined definition.
Yeah. NO. Ableism is a lot of things. Slurs,”harmless jokes” and a ton of nasty shit.
Todd has good reason,so does Mari. But I said in my original post that this was good. Blue,as always,defended Andi in a shitty manner. ?
And you are attacking Blue in a shitty way. I reread her comment. She said real adults can communicate angrily without shouting. That’s all she said. Which is true. Some can, some can’t. I’ve disagreed with her and we’ve discussed matters civily. I rather respect her opinion because we come from opposing views, dramatically opposing views. Yet she didn’t resort to ad hominem like some people would. That’s to her credit.
Then you called her ableist with her just stating truth. She didn’t use ad hominem, straw man fallacies or anything that’s bad debate. Just because you disagree doesn’t make her wrong. Just because you cry the loudest doesn’t make you right.
And for your information, I was Todd. I was lied to about having a child. She was being hurtful on purpose and I wanted to strangle her. When discussing it with her, I told her I wanted nothing more than light an M80 up her arse. But I did not shout. Because it was pointless to do so at the time.
Woooow. Yeah. No. What Blue said is shit. I didn’t “attack” her. She came to my comment and added her bullshit there. I honestly thought this was good but wanted more anger from Mari or Todd but said this was good.
Blue started this. Not me.
You made a comment about how there needed to be more yelling. Blue responded that as adults, they don’t need to yell to get their emotions across.
Not to mention, Blue isn’t the one seemingly throwing a fit because people disagree with them.
You seemingly for no reason claimed what they said is ableist, and then proceeded to flip out on people when they expressed confusion and annoyance. You’ve also regarded their opinion as “shit”.
Ableism, like everyone else said, is discrimination toward a disabled person in favor of an able person. E.g., closing the door on a blind person but holding it for an able person.
Andi seems to be perfectly able. She has not canonically been diagnosed with any sort of physical or mental disorder that would classify her as disabled. There is no one discriminating against her for being disabled. The same goes for Mari, Theo and Todd.
Unless you mean it to refer that disabled adults cannot “deal with situations without yelling” which in itself would be ableist because I know disabled adults that very much can deal with stressful situations without resorting to shouting, and I know able people that cannot.
I’m amazed at my powers, I go away for a day and a single comment I made has turned into a huge flame war and it’s “all my fault” and I “started it”. I haven’t even been here! And I certainly haven’t been the one throwing jet fuel on the fire.
Are you trying to say ageist, or ableist? I am not trying start a fight here, I just want to clarify. If you don’t feel like explaining, you don’t have to.
It’s ableism,dude. 🙂
She/He means enabler.
No I don’t. Thanks for the shit. ?
Also tidbit. If you don’t wanna gender someone. Go with “they” not the fucking shitty “he/she” bullshit.
Nah I’ll stick with what I did thanks.
You mean enabler btw.
No. I don’t. You’re literally using a b.s. terminology. I’m a “THEY”. Quit it.
Then stop calling people stuff they’re not
Someone disagrees to a public statement and you go crazy. People have a right to point things out.
Now I don’t care that you’re trans. I have lgbt friends and trans friends. They truly have improved my life and I am proud to call them family. But what you have done is the exact same thing you told Springpop not to do. You labeledd everyone. You are a shame to your family. Go grow the hell up.
I don’t know what Theo is going to ask for but I would say “tell Amanda the truth.” If anyone had a right to know, it’s her.
Fine. But what is the truthiness in this situation? I reread the archive and I still don’t know if it was Andi or her mom’s fault, not for sure.
The truth is not about apportioning blame, it’s about trying to understand what happened and how it happened. It would be equally not true if Andi lied to protect her own mother and took the blame, as if Andi lied and said it was not her own fault at all and tried to pin it on her mother to avoid blame. Once you bring whose fault it was into the equation it makes it harder to figure out what happened.
Andi’s mom was a huge factor in the decision, to be sure. But it’s her attitude recently that’s particularly crappy; she’s pretty much stated that she doesn’t want to even meet, much less know, her granddaughter. I can only guess why she wouldn’t at this point, but it’s probably a selfish reason.
But when all is said and done, remember that Andi was an extremely scared teenager when she was pregnant and her mother was probably the only who seemed like the voice of reason at the time. Andi was unprepared to be a mom, so the secret release for adoption and lie seemed to be best idea at the time. It wasn’t as it turned out, but Andi is really trying to amend it.
I don’t judge Andi’s mom for wanting to not have painful memories brought up — though I don’t for a minute believe that her decision is final. But if you thought a person was completely gone from your life — dead, or as good as dead — and suddenly they’re back unexpectedly, I can totally see why you wouldn’t want to participate with the reunion without giving yourself time to come to grips with the change.
None of this excuses Andi’s mom’s choices and advice (especially the “lie to Todd” part, if she urged Andi to do that) back when the decision was made. But it does make me have empathy for her in the now. I don’t hate who she is now and I grant her the right to choose how much emotional stress she can handle and say no to the rest.
I think it’s fair to assume that Andi’s mom never urged Andi to come clean about the lie, at a minimum. So… condoned or encouraged, it sure sounds like.
When she’s several years older and secure with her family, yes. Right now, it’s the worse disservice they can possibly do her. Abandonment issues, remember?
That might make THEM feel better, but it would probably irreparably harm the relationship between Andi and Amanda, and it would absolutely crush the little girl who’s convinced Cinderella’s a good story because “Everyone hates her and she gets abandoned”, just like in real life!
Liliet & Stu made some good points so I’ll amend my idea by having Theo say: “When you feel it’s the right time to tell Amanda the truth let us be there, for support.”
Please post preferred parameters for submissions. E.g. strongly prefer full colour, 300 dpi or better, single image two by three feet consisting of four or more panels, submitted as pdf
(Those are not the submission guidelines, just trying to find out what exactly would be preferable.)
And so, Mari proves (once again) that you can get your point across without yelling.
Love how the emotive hair runs in the fam. Jes sayin’.
Hard truths are being brought out, and so far Andi is not ducking her responsibilities, as a parent and a family member. This will be a prolonged process, but all sides seem willing to try heal the wounds Andi’s lies created.
I would’ve posted/written this last night but I had to get to bed. ^^”’
As soon as I read the last panel, I’m pretty sure a few commenters above said that Theo would want Andi to tell Amanda the truth about why they thought she was dead, and why Andi gave her up in the first place.
But keep in mind: Amanda is only EIGHT. So saying something to her like, “Your mom LIED to us because she’s a manipulative BITCH and thought it would be FUNNY to give us an urn with your ‘ASHES’ in it.” (not my true thoughts on Andi, by the way) will only make things worse. Amanda already has trust issues, so being blunt with an eight-year old barely a week after her birthmother regained custody of her would only make things worse.
I’m not saying the truth must be omitted. It just has to be at an age-appropriate level. Something like, “Your mother lied to us and gave you up because she thought she couldn’t take care of you. (which is true, Andi knew she wasn’t ready to be a mom at 17) If she and your dad had kept you and raised you, it would have been very difficult for them to take care of you the way you would need to. They wouldn’t have been able to make much money (meaning they wouldn’t have been able to go to college and be able to land themselves the jobs they currently have) and while they would have loved you, it would have been a very, very difficult life and situation.”
For all we know, if they had kept Amanda they may not have even been able to rent their own apartment, let alone afford enough to eat, buy clothes, toys, among other expenses like water and other utilities.
I can’t speak from experience, but my father has told me what it was like when he was a single dad raising my oldest brother from age two and on. They moved more times then you can count on one hand. Being a single dad may be different but the experience is somewhat similar at least. Hell he had no clue how to tell him how and why his mother just ran off for no reason. My dad had to give him age-appropriate answers.
Much like what they need to tell Amanda. This is just my reasoning, but it would be better for all involved, especially Amanda, that they explain things to her in a way that won’t make things worse. Because when Andi found her again, Amanda was thrilled. She needs her mom right now, and while Andi does need to own up to what she did, it needs to be worded the right way and Amanda needs to be told at the right time.
Otherwise, her trust may be broken for a long, long time. Just like my oldest brother and his birthmother. Things are still incredibly rocky between them, and it’s been over thirty years since all that happened.
“Go murder five hoboes. Bring me their bindles as proof.”
Heh, I wondered if anybody was going to create any spoof predictions. (I must admit, I was imagining the porn version.)
I’ve killed way too many hobos in my time. I have an entire Hobo Code Binder filled up to decode their scrawls!
But it’s been a while since I delved into Hobopolis. Those sewers are nasty.
“BRING ME THE BROOMSTICK OF THE WICKED WITCH OF THE WEST!”
LOL! I read that as “Boomstick” and had Theo sending her off to S-Mart on a side quest. 🙂
“Go with Ash Williams, cut down the Great Deku Tree, give him the Master Chainsaw and force Valve to make Half-life and Portal 3!”
That´s “cut down the Great Deku Tree *with this salmon*”, please.
(I know, it said “herring” in the original, but Selkie prefers salmon.)
Knight of Ni: We want….. A SHRUBBERY!!!!
May somebody with artistic talent create guest strips based on these ideas
Gotta say, they are blaming a lot on Andi.
Where where his parents? Why is it unprotected sex was okay? I mean, I understand that she hid something awful, but in a lot of casues, kids out of wed lock for teenage parents would most likely be better in other’s care.
This is a big mess, and it isn’t just Andi’s fault, it’s both of their faults. They had a child together. Are they going to ignore that point? I mean she didn’t just have to rely on her own mother, but the whole thing’s a mess.
I have a feeling that fight/discussion happened a long time ago considering Todd’s parents knew about Amanda’s birth. Right now the only thing they are concerned with is why Andi kept Amanda away from them. And more than that, made them go through ongoing grief over her “death”.
Forgot to add: Todd had a lot of plans to take care of Andi and the baby as a teenager, I’m guessing his parents wanted to help at that point as well. But Andi’s mom didn’t want Andi to even partially raise a child and due to her own history with raising a child alone probably didn’t trust Todd or his parents to stick around.
You know they aren’t yelling about Amanda right? They’re yelling about the lies which are her fault and her mom’s. But mostly hers.
They are not blaming her for having Amanda, it’s for saying she’s dead and lying about it for 8 years. That’s all on Andi and one else.
“Narfle the Garthak!”
Dave, as always this strip was great. The first thing I always do is check here and I am never disappointed. Thank you 🙂 I can’t wait to see what Theo’s thoughts are
Check in about 30 minutes. XD