I read some webcomics drama on Twitter while finishing up the strip that I’d rather not link to because I don’t want to give it traffic, but it has motivated me to say that I love and appreciate the support and readership you all give me and my story. Thank you for reading Selkie, and have a great weekend. 😀
Amanda's got a temper and, occasionally, a potty mouth.
In other words, she talks like a real life preteen.
😀
I don’t twitter, but I have reason to suspect that it’s aptly named and just as earth-shakingly important. And yes, I read and enjoy your strip!
I just checked your Twitter, and that led me to what I think you’re talking about, and oh god. I hope that isn’t true. 🙁
I don’t think it’s untrue; I do think it comes from a different place than the face value suggests.
…I’m probably gonna create artificial drama by being too vague about what I am talking about, aren’t I… bah. Basically, a webcomic artist ran a kickstarter for print versions of his work, then made an update with a video of himself burning the books in a bonfire as a protest against the nature of money and people’s attitudes about money. He refused all refund requests from those who didn’t get their books, and said he would burn more books for every time someone contacted him about the subject.
As a writer and artist growing his own readerbase, it’s the kind of mental breakdown flip-out I’d never want to do to you all.
And of course I Googled it, read the whoooole thing, and my response was Amanda in Panel 1. I feel pissed off FOR those people this was so blatantly cruel – unnecessary wastefulness is what’s wrong with America today, not production. I feel if he had simply asked, someone would have shipped the books for him at their expense. All the long, dramatic scenes from his childhood about social injustice are NOT cutting it when you do something this spiteful. You think people in huge mansions are on KickStarter supporting the struggle? Dave, it’s okay if you have a meltdown – it happens and a lot of us would still support you, but destroying things that technically don’t belong to you SOLELY to be a douche is not okay!
What a prick. Can’t he get sued for those refunds?
I’m not sure how that works. I wouldn’t want to be in his shoes if someone figures it out though.
Kickstarter does, in fact, have a policy which requires people who’re doing the kickstarter to actually fulfil their promises. They made it as legally binding as they possibly could.
So, yeah. He is legally required to either provide the books or provide refunds. This is in the terms you have to accept if you start a kickstarter fund, and it’s in the FAQ that it is in the terms.
So. Yeah. He can be sued for the refunds. Kickstarter may even decide to step in and force him to refund the money, since it is now clear that he will not send out any more of the material.
Absolutely.
In the U.S. people who he refused refunds wouldn’t even need an attorney to take him to small claims court.
If wouldn’t matter if he threw another tantrum or refused to show up in court, it would still be an almost automatic win for the plaintiff if they filled out the paperwork.
OK, so now they have won a court case. How do they collect the books or money?
I’m worried for his mental state and… I’m just worried he’ll try to kill himself. He’s obviously going into a mental breakdown. :
Thought I’d jump in here as a studying psychology major who’s taken an abnormal psych class. I’m not 100% qualified to diagnose this guy but I can say a few things about it.
Simply put, this doesn’t seem to be a mental breakdown. If it were a psychotic break the target wouldn’t be as specific and real-world as capitalism.
The only thing I can find that this even remotely resembles is the Histrionic/Narcissistic/Anti-Social Personality Disorder cluster. The degree of disrespect, need for attention and chaos-junkie behavior doesn’t fit with anything else.
Not trying to actually diagnose him, but I don’t think this is a mental breakdown…
(Just read the whole story myself, still surprised that a guy with such wit would pull something so hypocritical. I was familiar with the webcomic from a few years back but haven’t read it lately. He did mention stopping depression medication on his own, which is almost always a symptom of not being emotionally competent to make the decision for yourself…)
The thing about the story that makes his reasoning 100% BS (and/or perhaps he really is having a mental breakdown) is the fact that he has physical books but is just refusing to fulfill all of the orders. If he would have just finished mailing books out, maybe asking for help with shipping if he needed it, he’d not be acting like a complete hypocrite. His philosophies and principles he cites are completely undermined by the fact that he personally made promises he’s refusing to fulfill only because of emotions and not a lack of physical ability. The hard part, getting the books done and in his hands, is already done. He then did 75% of the easier part, mailing it out to his fans. But apparently that was too much for him. It’s like a marathon runner getting within sight of the finish line and then declaring that he refuses to finish because the concept of the race having sponsors morally offends him.
It seems he either needs to be institutionalised for his own safety until they can at least figure out which meds help and which don’t, or they need to at least “roll back” to whatever was at least partly working so he can have some stability and finally realize what he’s doing. And also he needs to take whatever he’s been prescribed because going off-meds has led to him harming the people supporting him. He’s clearly not capable of making rational decisions right now.
“I’m deleting all of my online comics because creators rights.” is a disappointing, but rational statement. “I’m burning this pile of books that I owe you because I once found a rabbit that was hit by a car and it died in my arms.” is not a rational statement.
I agree with most of your post (and I’m really not trying to start a comment fight here) but some of your statements are not helpful/kinda offensive. I don’t think you meant to be offensive, but I feel like I should just speak up about this.
First off, deciding to stop taking anti-depressants is not ” a symptom of not being emotionally competent to make the decision for yourself”. Anti-depressants can be really helpful (trust me I know) but they can also have some really shitty side-effects. And with the healthcare system in the US it’s not always feasible for a person (especially someone who is self-employed) to go get their medications adjusted. And while I think the profession of psychiatry is wonderful, valid and useful like every job there are going to be some jerks in it. If your provider turns out to be awful, it can be really hard to trust the system again. Stopping medications itself isn’t itself an irrational decision or a sign of being incompetent.
Secondly, being institutionalized is a really, really awful thing that rarely if ever works the way people want. It turns out that denying a person who thinks their life is worthless even the comfort of a blanket isn’t an effective strategy. Suicidal institutions are particularly awful. This is partly a product of attitudes about mental health, stressed and overworked nurses, and problems with the system so I’m not trying to point blame at anyone.
Lastly, and mostly for everyone’s knowledge: there aren’t always medications for this stuff. One of the common side effects of anti-depressants is suicidal thoughts. Literally the medication sometimes just happens to manifest one of the biggest symptoms of depression. The brain is really, really complex and we’re still not 100% sure how everything works or how we can fix some of the problems we encounter. Schizophrenia medication can sometimes be just as disturbing as having schizophrenia. And if I’m right and this is a personality disorder problem, well there’s nothing to be done at all.
You can’t just lock someone away and pump medication in them until they come out “normal”. Not only is it cruel, it’s impossible.
Again, I agree with most of the post you made. I honestly don’t think you’re a bad person. Mental health is complicated and there’s not a lot of common information. The way medication works for regular health (take it to make the problem go away until the problem goes away) isn’t the same as for mental health (try taking this one, it might make things worse, if it does try other kinds, if one works, take it pretty much forever if none of them work, take the one that suck least forever). And institutions are grossly different from hospitals. But this isn’t really well-known outside of mental-health specific circles.
I don’t think you said anything out of malice, just misunderstanding, which is understandable. I felt like I needed to speak up and try to correct some of it and get some information out there.
Speaking as an ADHD+OCD carrier, I had a doctor prescribe amphetamines just shy of Meth. I decided I didn’t want to deal with such an addictive substance. I am very much emotionally competent, I treat it with caffeine instead, which is a rational action.
As for this artist, I’ve known a few and it could simply be an artist that thinks he has the right to do this kind of crap because he’s an artist! And by all that’s holey he has the right to do what he wants and not be criticized! It’s a bunch of crap of course, he should follow through on his obligations but we may not be dealing with slight instability but entitlement.
“First off, deciding to stop taking anti-depressants is not ” a symptom of not being emotionally competent to make the decision for yourself”.”
Fair enough. I meant to say that deciding to stop taking anti-depressants and then burning your backers’ books instead of just finishing sending the last 25% of them (according to his post) is a sign that he’s not emotionally competent to decide to stop taking his meds.
In particular, if he’s telling the truth about fulfilling most of the orders(and I don’t think the backers are contradicting him on that part), that’s the most telling part. If he was entirely motivated by “screw capitalism for the sake of screwing capitalism!” and planning to destroy his career for the sake of public spectacle, then the rational thing would have been to burn all of the books.
“Secondly, being institutionalized is a really, really awful thing that rarely if ever works the way people want.”
Yes, but some people need it. In my personal experience, regarding a particular relative, it was needed at the time. Some people need 24/7 care in circumstances where the best their family can do is, say, visit every night and most afternoons when work schedules allow.
(I know Alzheimer’s (probably) isn’t the same as what this guy has, but it’s the example I have.)
“Lastly, and mostly for everyone’s knowledge: there aren’t always medications for this stuff.”
Yes, but it’s pretty clear that, at the very least, he’s completely incapable of making sensible business decisions at a time when he is entirely dependent on his ability to make sensible business decisions for himself. At some point, he (probably) intended to make a living from webcomics. He made some good progress and (probably) intended to fulfill his promises to his Kickstarter backers. Now mental health issues are preventing him from doing so, and threatening whatever career might be left. So whether the answer is medication or not, the problem needs to be fixed. Making his own medical decisions without consulting any professionals while his own mind is clearly compromised is part of the problem.
Institutionalization shouldn’t be the first resort, but it should be the last resort because maybe, just maybe, he’s someone who needs it.
He keeps this up, he’ll be looking at a class-action suit. What he’s done could be considered a breach of contract. IOW, he’s going to be in a LOT of trouble.
Ya know, there are times I really love Amanda.
Wowsers.
I hope you never breakdown that way, too. ’cause I wants more Selkies.
Wow, that’s crazy about what happened. I’m glad you’re still sane, Dave.
Oh don’t worry, I don’t plan to run naked down the street smearing green gelatin on my chest and singing Good King Wenceslas in gaelic until at least 2017.
-EDIT- Meant that as a silly jest, as far as I know that sequence of events has not actually occured in the above-referenced scenario.)
For the record if you do that, you could probably double your web traffic.
Side note, do you sing in Gaelic?
I do not, but I would be willing to learn in preparation for the spontaneous meltdown.
Darn it. Now you just got me to waste 15 minutes trying to find a link to a Gaelic version of Good King Wenceslas. I have failed.
Poor Heather stuck in the middle like that, she’s got this heady double rush of having actual parents plus they are richer then her wildest dreams. Keisha’s facepalm is priceless. Heather told the truth when she said that Amanda is a hard person to be friends with. Amanda seems totally unable to realize that She needs to apologize first and that Heather is the sort of big-hearted person who would forgive her and offer her own apology immediately if she did.
As long as Amanda is going down for “saying the F-word” anyway, she needs to punch out those two fake-friends.
That would probably hurt her cause with Heather, but it would also probably make her feel better.
And maybe, in their pain, they would let something slip that would let Heather know Amanda was right – that they were just using her.
I enjoy your comic; and I am thrilled with how the drawing; particularly the faces and expressions– is getting SO much better with every strip–
On the other subject; I didn’t dig into the situation you’re talking about.. but I read a lot of comics via the web; and even the ones on Newspaper sites and such have comments that are VILE and Cruel! These commenters seem to think they can just rip the artist into shreds and say the meanest things– and All I can think of is “jeez, if you don’t LIKE it, don’t READ it”. Most of the newspaper sites, I won’t even read the comments anymore.
Love your story 🙂 Looked into the the thing and feel like I waasted my time. 🙂 You are doing a wonderful job, your characters are distinct and interesting. And I can only hope that if you run a kickstarter you would actually save the money for the project rather than spend it and blame others. And from reading Selkie you do actually know right from wrong. Remember to have fun, enjoy creativity, have fun with your readers, and we will be there for you.
We, your readership, love you and your work. And we all have faith that you will do the honourable thing, no matter what. It’s kinda what we’ve been seeing you do with Selkie so far. Meltdowns are horrid, and cause irrational behaviour, but honouring your word is something that defines your character. He should have done just that. Poor guy!
Man I hate the way you censor the comic.
You are not alone.
I love the way you censor your comic! It’s creative and interesting, gets the point across for those of us who read symbols, and avoids getting the point across to the younger readers, which means I can show this comic to my nieces and nephews without any cringing and without their parents wondering where they picked up a new word.
Now, I’m not as anti-swearing as I was ten years ago. I recognize that in certain circumstances, a swear word can be used to great effect in a way that no lesser language could match. See, for example, the end of the first Erfworld book, in which a human trapped in a game-like world that censors his spoken language (“boop” no matter what swear word he tries) manages to show he’s capable of breaking the basic rules of the in-game universe by shouting out the F-word. It’s a perfect demonstration of what’s going on and promises plot consequences to come. I think I even cheered when I read it.
But in a lot of the stuff that I read or watch online, the abundance of swearing just makes me think how much more effective the material would be without all the swearing. I don’t think your webcomic needs it, and given the story content so far I would venture to say that your usage so far fits pretty well with the overall “rating” you’ve been working with. I’d hate to see that change.
The censor is so wrong for so many reasons.
When they say curse words ILLUSTRATE your point,
THIS IS NOT WHAT THEY MEANT.
The whole gender signs set me off after two seconds.
Just throwing this out there, but maybe crazy webcomic guy is making up the whole thing? Everyone who ordered believes they’re in the 75%, everyone is outraged on behalf of the remaining 25%, but maybe he can claim all this because he knows there’s no real chance of getting in trouble. Not like he hasn’t been Super Troll-y in the past… He could just think it’s hilarious to watch people get so upset over something that doesn’t directly affect them. (I have no idea, I didn’t order a book or know anyone who did, just seems possible after reading his troll-ish post about faking depression for money.)
If indeed this is the case, I… wow. He would have managed to meet his obligations yet pull the most astounding prank I’ve ever seen.
I suppose we’d have to see if there is any sizable number of people posting that they got ripped off by this guy. If there’s silence on that front, you just might be right.
Though I should note that “It doesn’t affect you, so you have no right to get upset” is a defense I’ve heard a few times over the years, and it’s a horrible one. Getting righteously angry over someone else getting ripped off means that your sense of justice is working just fine.
Why am I the only one who couldn’t find what Dave was talking about?
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/73258510/sad-pictures-for-children/posts/759318
This is the scenario.
Holy %#!^. Glad none of the webcomics I read have had their creators goo off the deep end like that. I’m also feel quite sorry for those 25% who won’t get what they were promised.