Even if the “th” is pronounced a bit differently than “normal”, just about anybody would, like Andi, quite reasonably just assume that he pronounced it a little different. Unusual accent, just came out funny, whatever.
I very much have to wonder how you actually pronounce those sounds.
The distinction in my variation of English (Pacific Northwest dialect), along with pretty much any variation I’ve ever heard that *has* a TH sound to begin with (some don’t), is voiced/voiceless — they’re in exactly the same place in the mouth, created in the same way, differing only by whether your vocal cords buzz or not.
Which means they differ in the same way that these pairs differ: S/Z, F/V, CH/J
Placement-wise, it’s the tip of the tongue between the teeth, with air escaping along both sides.
When I pronounce them aloud, I *might* get the feel for what you mean, though; when the buzz is there (“this”), you kinda feel it more in your tongue, which is the bottom part of your mouth, but when the buzz is not there (“thin”), you feel the air, which is in the top part of your mouth. But the air actually happens either way.
It’s also common to represent the unvoiced DF with “dh”.
If we wanna get REALLY fancy, we could use ON/OE letters: Þ/þ “thorn” represents the unvoiced DF as found in ‘three’, ‘thing’, and of course ‘thorn’. Ð/ð “eth” represents the voiced DF as found in ‘the’, ‘this’, and of course the regular word ‘then’.
So, what we’re asking is, if Then’s name is pronounced “Þen” or “Ðen”.
Don’t worry, Dondonesque, I think I may have managed to outsmug you.
What I find interesting is that there’s a clear voiceless/voiced set that it seems many people don’t know about or don’t understand, and so we’re kinda losing it as the spelling shifts, even though the spelling was useful.
It’s TH/THE — which sometimes affects the vowel, sometimes not, but always has the pattern TH=voiceless, THE=voiced:
bath/bathe
cloth/clothe
teeth/teethe
breath/breathe
sheath/sheathe
sooth/soothe
loath/loathe
…and suggests a smooth/smoothe pattern, though apparently we’ve lost that one. Also, people chronically mix up “loath” (reluctant) and “loathe” (detest).
Agreed. You’ve got to keep a clear head on your shoulders when dealing with stressful situations involving your kids. Andi is certainly not doing Amanda any favors here.
Sorry to have to say that Andi seems to be more than a little dense; not just because of the Sarnothi thing. Her life as portrayed by this strip seems to be one of being a millennial with nothing but “me me me” on her mind.
Now confronted with her child’s exposure to her sister… Andi is melting, what a world, what a world…
Who’s on first?
That’s what I was gonna say!
Third base!
No, I don’t know is on third base
And What’s on second!
“I don’t give-a-darn!”
“Oh, he’s our shortstop!”
I thought you established that the “th” in Then’s name is different from the “th” in the adverb “then” ?
(I’m not going to dig through IPA symbology to be able to correctly represent this.)
Even if the “th” is pronounced a bit differently than “normal”, just about anybody would, like Andi, quite reasonably just assume that he pronounced it a little different. Unusual accent, just came out funny, whatever.
I am trying to find a way to describe how I’ve been reading Then’s name and I keep getting increasingly frustrated as it is impossible.
The closest is its the Then where your tongue is on the top of your mouth, not the Then when its on the bottom.
Have I gone insane?
Regardless, another wonderful comic!!!
Like the Th sound in “Thin” or “Through” vs the Th sound in “The”?
The fancy linguistic terms would be “unvoiced dental fricative” and “voiced dental fricative”.
I very much have to wonder how you actually pronounce those sounds.
The distinction in my variation of English (Pacific Northwest dialect), along with pretty much any variation I’ve ever heard that *has* a TH sound to begin with (some don’t), is voiced/voiceless — they’re in exactly the same place in the mouth, created in the same way, differing only by whether your vocal cords buzz or not.
Which means they differ in the same way that these pairs differ: S/Z, F/V, CH/J
Placement-wise, it’s the tip of the tongue between the teeth, with air escaping along both sides.
When I pronounce them aloud, I *might* get the feel for what you mean, though; when the buzz is there (“this”), you kinda feel it more in your tongue, which is the bottom part of your mouth, but when the buzz is not there (“thin”), you feel the air, which is in the top part of your mouth. But the air actually happens either way.
Yr Hen Iaith uses “th” for the unvoiced and “dd” for the voiced.
I’m going to look smug now. It won’t be pretty.
It’s also common to represent the unvoiced DF with “dh”.
If we wanna get REALLY fancy, we could use ON/OE letters: Þ/þ “thorn” represents the unvoiced DF as found in ‘three’, ‘thing’, and of course ‘thorn’. Ð/ð “eth” represents the voiced DF as found in ‘the’, ‘this’, and of course the regular word ‘then’.
So, what we’re asking is, if Then’s name is pronounced “Þen” or “Ðen”.
Don’t worry, Dondonesque, I think I may have managed to outsmug you.
Wouldn’t the English language be so much better if we still had þ and ð around?
What I find interesting is that there’s a clear voiceless/voiced set that it seems many people don’t know about or don’t understand, and so we’re kinda losing it as the spelling shifts, even though the spelling was useful.
It’s TH/THE — which sometimes affects the vowel, sometimes not, but always has the pattern TH=voiceless, THE=voiced:
bath/bathe
cloth/clothe
teeth/teethe
breath/breathe
sheath/sheathe
sooth/soothe
loath/loathe
…and suggests a smooth/smoothe pattern, though apparently we’ve lost that one. Also, people chronically mix up “loath” (reluctant) and “loathe” (detest).
Curses, and foul, unladylike epithets!
Yea, but if people aren’t expecting it, they may not notice that.
You spent years waiting to use that joke.
So Then’s name is pronounced with the /ð/ like in ‘this’ as opposed to the /θ/ like in ‘thing’
Other way around, Andi’s just misunderstanding
Someone give Andi some damn valium.
Agreed. You’ve got to keep a clear head on your shoulders when dealing with stressful situations involving your kids. Andi is certainly not doing Amanda any favors here.
I think Andi’s gonna need more than just Valium. Maybe some Ativan or Xanax instead… (but not all of them, dear god no…)
Sorry to have to say that Andi seems to be more than a little dense; not just because of the Sarnothi thing. Her life as portrayed by this strip seems to be one of being a millennial with nothing but “me me me” on her mind.
Now confronted with her child’s exposure to her sister… Andi is melting, what a world, what a world…
Dude give her a break, she just saw her kid shoot lasers out of her eyes.
Right now she’s panicking over her daughter. I’ll forgive her not tracking well right now.
I always read “Then” as “ten”… at most with an unvoiced “th”.
The idea that English speakers consider voiced and unvoiced “th” the same sound is as cursed as it is believable.
Dangit, Brown. You’ve only to remember to always prefaces Then’s name with “Agent”, and these impromptu comedy routines won’t happen.
…Which, of course, is WHY Dave deliberately has you forget to preface Then’s name with “Agent”. 😉