LOL i so knew this question would creep up!
also, someone should´ve prepared the teachers better, giving them a crash course in sarnothi culture and interactions…..then again, the same goes for the sarnothis. they´ve been around+among humans long enough to pick up the language but no one introduced the concept of handshakes?! what ARE they teaching the refugees to help them integrate into our society?
I’m not sure how many days it has been, comic time, since the big assembly in the auditorium announcing that, “we have new students”? But I agree with you, completely … just the basics, just to update the staff how NOT to offend would have been nice,… Please, thank you, how do you do? what? How? Who? yes, no! bite me!
These are all things that We needs to knows, even if one cannot speak well, eloquently, or with erudition and proper diction. Declining and conjugalling all that crap we know automatically about Our Native Tongue, (English, Spanish, French, Dutch, German, Estonian…) but we need to learn for a foreign language; French, German, Estonian, English, Klingon, Farenghi,…
Cultures rarely meld without a bit of initial clash, but after that they start adapting to each-other. So long as all concerned keep in mind that mistakes will be made and to roll with them, it’ll be fine.
(Information and customs passed from person to person. They’re fascinating.)
This seems like the first time that Todd has had the social currency here, and he’s putting it to good use. I think that’ll get him in good before anyone is too harsh about him raising a Sarnothi kid.
Mina’s also been in America long enough to be used to it. Tehk’s parents are comparatively newer, and weren’t really ready for someone to come surging toward them reaching out to grab them.
People don’t know all kinds of stuff about human cultures that are different from theirs and in areas where the dominant culture doesn’t have large pockets of minority cultures people acclimate to those general things on an individual scale. (So, like Dave said, Mina’s used to it.) What I find interesting is, from what I gather, the city they live in is diverse but equally so, so “American” culture norms are default, but the Sarnothi are a sudden influx of a large ethnic population (and getting larger) so the city will have to adjust; if everything goes well, I imagine it won’t be long until Todd and Selkie start passing guppy daycares (what an image!) and Sarnothi versions of fast food places on their way to school. (People will take longer to change, but the city’s landscape will reflect who lives there, that’s what happens in real life. Also, future little Sarnoth? Maybe by a manmade lake, or something?)
I believe it’s more specifically that men and women who are not married are not supposed to touch each other. It’s based in the idea of showing respect for marriage (even your future marriage if you’re single).
That being said, there’s numerous practical exceptions that are excused (doctors who must touch their patients to examine them, for example).
This abstainment from cross-gender casual contact did result in greeting traditions in the Middle East that don’t require touching, more as a side effect, I think. I can easily imagine that more western-localized Islamic denominations might sweep shaking hands in greeting into the same catagory of allowed exceptions to the rule as profession-required contact. It’s a widely-recognized greeting ritual after all, not cheating on your spouse by romantically holding hands with them (despite a literal similarity).
Yup – there are a lot of Islamic groups do consider shaking hands to be acceptable, because it’s polite and not considered sexual at all. There are also many groups that don’t do that. I’ve seen advice to some to not shake hands at all in western workplaces, to avoid misunderstanding.
Some people turn it into more of a display of dominance than sexuality for shaking hands. I do recall some taboos for which hand is shaken and I think bowing is normally used for asian cultures if I remember right.
I thought the handshake taboo was from desert cultures where there was less water and therefore more need for careful hygiene — same reason that the left hand is considered dirty (because you wipe with it, in a culture where you may not be easily able to clean it afterwards).
But I might have gotten my info wrong.
I do know that the Old Testament / Jewish Torah has a ton of hygiene laws to reduce contagion (e.g. if you touch a dead body, you’re unclean until evening; if you touch blood or a bloody object, you’re unclean until evening; if you’re menstruating, you need to stay outside camp until it’s over; etc.).
There’s a reason that I support clean-water charities: Until you have free access to fresh water, it’s difficult or impossible to establish some of the basics, such as hygiene, that are necessary to develop better overall quality of life.
“We now have a refugee crisis three times the size of the one we prepared for. All hands on deck, we need to get necessary material support to these people ASAP!”
“Um, sir, I’m supposed to brief the schools-”
“Just get the paperwork in order for the kids to attend done, we need you on station with the housing department yesterday!”
Refugee crises are crises, they don’t necessarily respond to order. And when the crisis triples in size, and moves from ‘eventually’ to ‘right damned now’, you’ve got problems. Things slip.
And *that* assumes that anyone thought about basic introductions. Think about the sheer scope and scale of what they’re doing — things slip through the cracks easily enough even without help.
you DO realize that you’re talking about a Government that wouldn’t even release MEDICALLY IMPORTANT information like “oh yeah, don’t feed the kid anything VEGETABLE… It could KILL THEM…” to the orphanage that was the test facility for Sarnothi-Human integration effort… yet you expect that same Government to tell somebody what the proper way to say “Hello” is!!?
Haha, reminds me of Todd, blithely telling Selkie to go rummage thraround ugh the fridge for something to eat. “You eats Moldy Cheese?”
Yes, Selkie, I do eat moldy cheese, with relish! Heck, I put it on otherwise fresh garden vegetables! Fancy restaurants put it on Hamburgers, and charge an extra $7.-. Elvis Presley even sang a song about “Blue – Blue – Blue suede cheese! What eva’ ya do, Just stay offa my blue suede cheese.”
I’m beginning to think Mina’s recommendation for a Speech Therapy class is going to include a recommendation for a particular volunteer teacher, who not only has a daughter with the same “condition” but already demonstrates a lot of experience at navigating culture clashes with Sarnothi.
That would be a bad idea. Todd would be in danger of losing his job (remember, Todd’s boss was mad at him for taking time to deal with his daughter going to the hospital), and has shown absolutely no knowledge of how speech therapy works.
LOL i so knew this question would creep up!
also, someone should´ve prepared the teachers better, giving them a crash course in sarnothi culture and interactions…..then again, the same goes for the sarnothis. they´ve been around+among humans long enough to pick up the language but no one introduced the concept of handshakes?! what ARE they teaching the refugees to help them integrate into our society?
Mostly? Probably how to avoid frostbite and dry lung.
I’m not sure how many days it has been, comic time, since the big assembly in the auditorium announcing that, “we have new students”? But I agree with you, completely … just the basics, just to update the staff how NOT to offend would have been nice,… Please, thank you, how do you do? what? How? Who? yes, no! bite me!
These are all things that We needs to knows, even if one cannot speak well, eloquently, or with erudition and proper diction. Declining and conjugalling all that crap we know automatically about Our Native Tongue, (English, Spanish, French, Dutch, German, Estonian…) but we need to learn for a foreign language; French, German, Estonian, English, Klingon, Farenghi,…
Cultures rarely meld without a bit of initial clash, but after that they start adapting to each-other. So long as all concerned keep in mind that mistakes will be made and to roll with them, it’ll be fine.
Short order cook says;”You get a roll with it, Baby. A side of ‘slaw and a roll with it, Baby. Grilled onions and a roll with it….
Clearly you are not familiar with the American public “education” system.
And so the memes begin!
(Information and customs passed from person to person. They’re fascinating.)
This seems like the first time that Todd has had the social currency here, and he’s putting it to good use. I think that’ll get him in good before anyone is too harsh about him raising a Sarnothi kid.
It makes me extremely happy to see that word used as originally intended. Thank you for that!
Also, good analysis of the situation.
After all the research I’ve been putting into antimemetic threats this past month, I should *hope* I’m using the terms correctly.
But, yes, “memes” are more than just the silly pictures on the interwebz.
Aw… look at how proud Todd is to be introduced as “My Dad(s)”. ^_^
Now… the next thing that should happened is to teach Tehk’s parents how humans greet each other. They’re going to be meeting a lot of them now.
…and of course, Selkie’s wicked grin at the confusion she can create with the same two words.
I’ll label it as pride in having him as a “dads” but, yes, I sense the evil, too.
Ummm…Mina comes from an Islamic tradition where many people do not shake hands, right? I agree it’s weird they wouldn’t tell people that.
Mina’s also been in America long enough to be used to it. Tehk’s parents are comparatively newer, and weren’t really ready for someone to come surging toward them reaching out to grab them.
People don’t know all kinds of stuff about human cultures that are different from theirs and in areas where the dominant culture doesn’t have large pockets of minority cultures people acclimate to those general things on an individual scale. (So, like Dave said, Mina’s used to it.) What I find interesting is, from what I gather, the city they live in is diverse but equally so, so “American” culture norms are default, but the Sarnothi are a sudden influx of a large ethnic population (and getting larger) so the city will have to adjust; if everything goes well, I imagine it won’t be long until Todd and Selkie start passing guppy daycares (what an image!) and Sarnothi versions of fast food places on their way to school. (People will take longer to change, but the city’s landscape will reflect who lives there, that’s what happens in real life. Also, future little Sarnoth? Maybe by a manmade lake, or something?)
Man, could you imagine the Vegan outcry to a Carnivore restaurant?
Stop, I can only steal plot ideas so quickly.
ooooh selkie meets a miltant vegan.. BWAAHAHAHAHAHAHA…
hey susan (its always a susan) cans yous say hate crime I knew you coulds.
Ha ha. Naw truthfully, I have no interest in ripping on vegans, but I think the idea is a good one for Fun With Ideology Clashes
Come on dave there is always a Susan that just HAS to be offended.
I believe it’s more specifically that men and women who are not married are not supposed to touch each other. It’s based in the idea of showing respect for marriage (even your future marriage if you’re single).
That being said, there’s numerous practical exceptions that are excused (doctors who must touch their patients to examine them, for example).
This abstainment from cross-gender casual contact did result in greeting traditions in the Middle East that don’t require touching, more as a side effect, I think. I can easily imagine that more western-localized Islamic denominations might sweep shaking hands in greeting into the same catagory of allowed exceptions to the rule as profession-required contact. It’s a widely-recognized greeting ritual after all, not cheating on your spouse by romantically holding hands with them (despite a literal similarity).
Yup – there are a lot of Islamic groups do consider shaking hands to be acceptable, because it’s polite and not considered sexual at all. There are also many groups that don’t do that. I’ve seen advice to some to not shake hands at all in western workplaces, to avoid misunderstanding.
Some people turn it into more of a display of dominance than sexuality for shaking hands. I do recall some taboos for which hand is shaken and I think bowing is normally used for asian cultures if I remember right.
I thought the handshake taboo was from desert cultures where there was less water and therefore more need for careful hygiene — same reason that the left hand is considered dirty (because you wipe with it, in a culture where you may not be easily able to clean it afterwards).
But I might have gotten my info wrong.
I do know that the Old Testament / Jewish Torah has a ton of hygiene laws to reduce contagion (e.g. if you touch a dead body, you’re unclean until evening; if you touch blood or a bloody object, you’re unclean until evening; if you’re menstruating, you need to stay outside camp until it’s over; etc.).
There’s a reason that I support clean-water charities: Until you have free access to fresh water, it’s difficult or impossible to establish some of the basics, such as hygiene, that are necessary to develop better overall quality of life.
wasn’t the original Post-Contact Klingon greeting bashing foreheads together while clasping hands, on the original Star-Trek?
You’d think someone would’ve told her that beforehand? Like that would only be right.
“We now have a refugee crisis three times the size of the one we prepared for. All hands on deck, we need to get necessary material support to these people ASAP!”
“Um, sir, I’m supposed to brief the schools-”
“Just get the paperwork in order for the kids to attend done, we need you on station with the housing department yesterday!”
Refugee crises are crises, they don’t necessarily respond to order. And when the crisis triples in size, and moves from ‘eventually’ to ‘right damned now’, you’ve got problems. Things slip.
And *that* assumes that anyone thought about basic introductions. Think about the sheer scope and scale of what they’re doing — things slip through the cracks easily enough even without help.
you DO realize that you’re talking about a Government that wouldn’t even release MEDICALLY IMPORTANT information like “oh yeah, don’t feed the kid anything VEGETABLE… It could KILL THEM…” to the orphanage that was the test facility for Sarnothi-Human integration effort… yet you expect that same Government to tell somebody what the proper way to say “Hello” is!!?
Haha, reminds me of Todd, blithely telling Selkie to go rummage thraround ugh the fridge for something to eat. “You eats Moldy Cheese?”
Yes, Selkie, I do eat moldy cheese, with relish! Heck, I put it on otherwise fresh garden vegetables! Fancy restaurants put it on Hamburgers, and charge an extra $7.-. Elvis Presley even sang a song about “Blue – Blue – Blue suede cheese! What eva’ ya do, Just stay offa my blue suede cheese.”
“A-AAH!” ?
A moment of sudden realization, or sharp relief?
Love the look of relief on Tehk’s parent’s faces- “Finally someone civilized!!”
I’m beginning to think Mina’s recommendation for a Speech Therapy class is going to include a recommendation for a particular volunteer teacher, who not only has a daughter with the same “condition” but already demonstrates a lot of experience at navigating culture clashes with Sarnothi.
That would be a bad idea. Todd would be in danger of losing his job (remember, Todd’s boss was mad at him for taking time to deal with his daughter going to the hospital), and has shown absolutely no knowledge of how speech therapy works.
No one else in the comic has been established as a teacher with a Sarnothi daughter, just Todd. You feeling a bit mixed up there?
You do realize speech therapists are professionals, right?
I see the teachers haven’t received the cultural training yet.