Now THAT is a clever, clever proof. And it is 100% true.
I don’t know if she can just fill in the “father” slot or not, though; the DNA test may be necessary if the at-time-of-birth thing has that left empty.
…she kept a copy of Amanda’s birth certificate? Awwwwwwwwww!
I dunno if it depends on the state or if it’s a country-wide thing, but in cases where a couple is in need of a sperm donor (and possibly an egg donor, or in some situations they may need both) even though the woman’s husband may not be the baby’s biological father he is allowed to be listed on the birth certificate as the father.
And this is just a guess but either she did keep a copy of it, or it was returned to her after regaining custody of Amanda. ‘Cos her adoptive parents would have needed it, and then when they gave her up they would’ve needed to give it to the orphanage.
Sorry, adding on to my first little paragraph. >.<
Ergo, a DNA test probably won't be needed to put Todd's name on the birth certificate. Though if he also wants to gain parental custody of Amanda, that may require some legal action which may involve a DNA test. 'Cos the legal system doesn't care much about whether or not a spouse had cheated or not on the other one, they still need it done so it can be official.
I wondered about that too, whether it’d be more complicated after 8 years.
So I looked it up online. Apparently not. It’s pretty straightforward. In Wisconsin, when the mother is unmarried, there’s a Voluntary Paternity Acknowledgement form. This can be signed and notarized and filed with the Office of Vital Records, any time after the child is born. This fully establishes legal paternity.
(However, a court action to establish paternity must occur before the child’s 19th birthday.)
But, y’know. That’s a bit long for webcomic dialog! What Andi said is a perfectly good shorthand for, “We’ll both sign a form and make Todd Amanda’s legal father.”
I read about a case where a man was tricked into putting his name on a birth certificate only to later find out he was not the biological father. A judge said he still had to pay child support even though it wasn’t his child. So, if some woman claims you got her pregnant, demand a DNA test before you sign anything.
There’s at least one case where CPS went after the wrong guy (who shared a name with the right guy), and because he went “Pfff yeah right, I don’t need to deal with this because there’s no reason I would have a kid with some strange lady,” and therefore didn’t protest the court order to pay child support in a timely manner, that even after it was proven he wasn’t the dad, the court maintained that he still had to pay child support until the kid was full-grown.
I have serious problems with a system that sets aside money for this, that, and the other weird study or luxury or what have you, but fiscally penalizes a man for having a common name, and instead of saying “Whoops, our fault that this screw-up happened,” they say “Hey, if it was a screw-up you would’ve told us, right? You’re signed up for life.”
Of course, this is also a country where rape victims can be forced to pay child support for the life of the kid their rapist gave birth to. Never minding all the questions about how much of that money is just benefiting the rapist instead of the kid.
And, on the flip side, if a guy rapes a woman (or girl) and the victim gets pregnant and decides to keep the baby, in many states the court maintains that the rapist has visitation rights. Even if the victim was underage at the time and basic common sense would say that the child is at increased risk of abuse.
There are times when it hits me particularly strongly just how messed up this world is.
These are all good reasons for why I think it would be a good thing if people were required to get a parenting licence before allowed to have/keep children… No parenting licence? No children for you, and if you end up giving birth to one anyway, it’s given to someone who actually passed the test.
Note, however, that in my scenario the licence requirements would be fairly easy, if you’re a sane (further note, I don’t consider a non-psychotic mental illness that’s being kept under control with medication and/or therapy, as counting as “insane”) adult with the minimum monetary means needed to raise a child. Also I know it wouldn’t be fool-proof, but you could lose the licence (and any children) if you turned out to be, say, an abuser.
Yes, I know many people disagree with this idea, but it would help keep so many children out of dismal conditions that I do honestly think it should be applied in the real world.
And no, it’s not the same as eugenics, before someone brings that up.
Why not a psychotic mental illness that’s kept under control by medication/therapy? Psychosis simply means a break from reality, it’s got nothing to do with violence.
Second you bring up forced sterilizations, you’ve lost me. That has been a tool used genocidally in the past (I’ve got native blood, not enough to affiliate with a tribe but enough to know my lineage and pay attention). It’s too easy to use it to target specific races. Speaking as somebody who’s lived in a subzero sleeping bag in a house with no heat, rather than pack sardine style in a heated travel trailer, there are things worse than simply being poor (which can change with a little work and luck); forced sterilization is one of them. Humans being humans, you can’t guarantee impartiality.
“The government sometimes screws over innocent people” –> “People shouldn’t be allowed to have (or at least keep) kids without jumping through government hoops.”
…Have you ever heard the term “Non Sequitur”?
As far as your basic argument, though: For one, you should totally read Leftover Soup; the Florenovia ideals fit right in with yours.
For two, I tend to base a certain level of pragmatics around this idea: Are we doing okay with the factors we’re already dealing with, such that it would make sense to branch out and deal with more?
In this case: Are we doing all right by the kids who are currently in the system? If we’re doing okay with them, then maybe it would be reasonable to add more children into the mix. Bear in mind, the numbers you’re proposing would be HIGH.
I would say that we are definitely NOT doing okay by the kids in foster care right now. There are countless examples of kids being abused within the foster care system because the court didn’t vet the foster parents well enough — or because the court is incapable of vetting the foster parents’ friends and extended family, and it’s sadly not uncommon for a friend or relative to watch the kids for a while and abuse them — so there are definitely cases where the kids get taken away from a certain situation and put into a worse one, and sometimes this results in death.
So if we can’t manage to do better than that for our current load of foster kids, I oppose, on the grounds of pragmatism and of ethics (specifically related to putting kids in potentially worse situations), the idea of a parenting license.
If we got the system into better shape and had fewer of the horror stories, then we can talk about whether it’s ethical or reasonable to have parenting licenses, and the types of logistical nightmares a licensing program would bring up.
Should also note that kids that were sexually abused and taken away have also been known to sexually abuse their “new” sibs. It doesn’t even necessarily have to be the parents/relatives, all it takes is for the foster parents to be overloaded enough proper supervision flags.
Yes Hanna. So many kids; not enough Earth. When I am ready and if I want children: I’m adopting from Foster. I have met kids when placed in child protection for my own abusive parents who were hurt so bad THEY COULDN’T EVEN READ. They gave up on life. No one loved them, they wouldn’t bother with something like reading.
I wouldn’t take kids away though: I’d tax the parents. Tax payers shouldn’t have to pay for people’s mistakes.
I am called selfish all the time for being a women without having kids: no… people who have kids are selfish. :\ you can’t say you had a child for the child when it didn’t exist when you got pregnant. And if you want to cry “accidents happen!!!!” then don’t make ME pay taxes for your fuck ups 😉 (I’m not talking rape in this.)
It’s not fair how much men are hurt when things like what you speak of happen.
The general argument “Why should innocent people have to pay for your bad decisions and moral lapses?” is one I tend to agree with, and a problem I have with our current system and some trends it’s heading for as well.
However, the line “I wouldn’t take the kids away though: I’d tax the parents” makes me wonder which group of parents you’re referring to.
If you mean parents who are being actually abusive: I completely disagree with leaving them in an abusive household.
If, however, you mean parents who have more kids than they can reasonably afford to take care of (the original set I think we were discussing), then… how exactly do you propose this to work? “You don’t have enough money to have these children. We’re going to take more of your money away now.”
There’s also the general principle that says: Kids shouldn’t have to pay for their parents’ mistakes (even though logically, this happens a lot), and if we set up a system that penalizes children unduly for their parents’ bad decisions, we’re setting up a “sins of the father” chain that just leads to worse and worse circumstances as the generations go by.
I’m mostly an independent Capitalist, but even I buy into what got said once, that money spent for certain public benefits (such as education, health care and the like) is actually a tax to REDUCE CRIME. Because people who are desperate and don’t have the resources to help themselves and their families more readily turn to crime because what else are you going to do? Crime rate are associated with a number of factors that our liberal system is trying to fix, and while I question their methods and effectiveness and some of the actual choices being made, I acknowledge that it doesn’t help society if we just push additional burdens onto the people least able to deal with the burdens they have now.
Wow this comic hits so close to me on so many things. I’m right now trying to get my birth father on my birth certificate so I can claim my tribal affiliation (a different situation, the Catholic hospital was awful to an unwed mother giving up her baby, just told her “don’t bother filling out the father slot, it doesn’t matter”)
Hmm, that sounds like a detail that would help flesh out the story I’m writing. I take it your birth mother does not have tribal affiliation then? At what point did the lack of legal proof begin to cause you problems, and what sort of problems have you encountered? (I’m assuming it’s more than just “I am part of the tribe and want you to acknowledge that.”)
My mother is part Native too but doesn’t have proof, part of the problem is the government system of records, if your family didn’t register as Indians then they don’t get to claim it now (and back when this was set up you’d pretty much lose your land if you said you were Native so anyone who was pale enough to pass as white did so). My dad on the other hand actually has a card so I’d be eligible for one too if I had any proof that he was my father (through my dad I have an ancestor who survived the Trail of Tears!)
I no longer live on traditional tribal land so I wouldn’t be eligible for free medical and dental, but I could still be eligible for scholarship help, and more importantly if I had a card I could sell my art as “Native art” and be able to show in those Galleries (right now I can’t because I have no proof other than my dark eyes and high cheekbones)
Theo continues to be amazing in every way. Not sure why Todd suddenly decided it was time to glare, seems pointless. Anyways, Theo is right, they need something in the case of something bad happening to Andi. Cause I mean, unless Andi gets married in the near future and the person she marries legally adopts Amanda, the poor kid wouldn’t have anybody to legally care for her.
It’s worse than that. If Todd is not placed in position as Amanda’s legal parent, Amanda would end up being given to Andi’s mother who has already expressed wanting to have nothing to do with her.
I don’t see where she would be legally obligated. She could refuse custody, and give Amanda back to the system. But she could, if Todd has no “paper trail”, refuse allowing him or his family any contact. You know, if she hates him for “getting my little baby pregnant, and ruining her life”.
That actually brings up another very important point — not only does Todd need to be on the birth certificate as the father, but Todd and Andi need to name a guardian for Amanda in case something happens to both of them. As things are (unless Andi has any other relatives who’d be willing to take Amanda), custody would likely revert to Andi’s mother. If she refuses custody and puts Amanda back into the system, Todd (or Theo and Mari, if something’s happened to Todd) may be able to get custody, but it could be a lengthy, time-consuming process … and, in the meantime, Amanda’s feeling abandoned again.
Not to mention that if Andi’s mother did take custody and Amanda hated her and/or wasn’t doing well with her, it would take lawsuits to get custody transferred…
Yeah, the legal stuff needs sorting out. Yay, Theo, for thinking of this point! (And I do admit, it would be interesting to see how fast Andi would be willing to name Theo and Mari as Guardians In Case Of Both Parents Being Unavailable.)
The way I see that is it’s just from a legal standpoint. Selkie is legally is daughter, just because Amanda isn’t legally his daughter that doesn’t cancel out the fact that she’s biologically his daughter.
There’s a secondary bonus here. Amanda’s peace of mind. This is telling her, or will if she’s not snooping, that she is wanted, being thought of, and protected by her father’s side.
Because you KNOW, as I do, that given a chance Theo would ROCK a pink tutu and sparkling tiara, he would own that shiz and wear it PROUDLY, without an ounce of self-consciousness, and with all the dramatic emphasis he could manage.
…Dave? If you could find a way to fit this imagery into the storyline somehow, it… it would be beautiful. You know it would.
I do human genetics research. While the “spit kits” are ok, we much prefer getting DNA from blood. The quantity of DNA is smaller in the saliva kits, the contamination level is greater (lots of bacteria grown in your mouth), and we see a much higher failure rate in genetic tests done with DNA from saliva kits.
I’m at a loss. I thought Todd and his siblings were adopted—as is Selkie, for that matter—so what’s one more non-biological-relation in a grandchild / grandparent relationship?
As stated, it’s not the biological relationship Theo’s worried about, it’s the legal one, and the possibility – if anything happens to Andi – of losing track of Amanda again.
When I adopted my daughter, I went down to the hall of records with a copy of the adoption paper, and now I am on her birth certificate as her father, even though she was ten before I ever met her.
I’m certain that Theo and Marie are listed on Todd’s birth certificate as his parents. That’s just a normal thing to do.
So if Todd is “paper-tied” to Amanda as her father, if Todd and Andi both bought it in a car wreck, or caught Swine Flu, or whatever, Theo and Marie would still be LEGALLY Amanda’s next-of-kin. No question – “We have here proof that Todd was her father, and proof that Todd was our son, so obviously she is our granddaughter.”
“Legally” isn’t “emotionally.” Whether there’s any bond between them is still up for grabs. I read once that Joe DiMaggio’s son Joe Jr. adopted two girls (I think), and, despite problems between Joe Sr. and Joe Jr., Joe Sr. never treated the girls as anything but his grandchildren. That’s the kind of bond I meant.
No, legally isn’t emotionally, but emotionally doesn’t mean a hill of beans if Andi gets hit by a bus and Amanda goes back to the orphanage because there’s no legal paperwork to justify doing otherwise.
Emotional bonds are going to take time and effort to build, but in the meantime MAYBE we want to make sure that this traumatized little kid doesn’t end up more traumatized in the event of a worst-case scenario.
This is actually an issue at the heart of some of the gay marriage debate, too, and I was surprised to learn how many things become huge hassles or even legal impossibilities if there’s not an established legal relationship.
Consider if Andi and Amanda got in a car wreck, where Andi was comatose and Amanda in urgent need of care. Todd COULD NOT sign release forms to say the doctors could do what they needed to help Amanda — because he’s not legally her father.
Or if Andi died, Todd couldn’t make decisions about Amanda’s residence, education, medical issues… even discipline would be iffy.
Now consider the homosexual setup: Two women (Jessica and Marie, say) have been raising Marie’s daughter (say Rosie) from a previous relationship, and Marie gets hit by a car and ends up comatose.
Who gets to sign paperwork authorizing the doctors to do what’s needed to help Marie — or to honor her wish to have a DNR order in the case of a coma? What happens when Jessica’s decisions about Marie clash with Marie’s parents, who believe that homosexuality is sinful and have for a long time not really acknowledged Marie’s relationship with Jessica?
What happens to Rosie? Marie can’t care for her; does she stay with Jessica, someone she’s known as “Mom” for two years now? Until recently, Marie’s parents would have a greater claim to Rosie than Jessica would, because no legal relationship existed between Jessica and Rosie. They had an entire episode of… Law & Order? about this issue. It was eye-opening.
Because regardless of everything else in the debate, if a kid’s grown up calling someone “Mom,” they’ve got a relationship with them that ought to be supported by the legal system (assuming they’re not in that relationship due to kidnapping a la Rapunzel). To rip them away from that relationship over definitions is horrifically unjust to the child.
If they are just “living together”, Jessica’s decisions have no bearing.
Next of kin goes in order. Spouse, grown children, parents, grandparents, aunts/uncles, cousins.
Without a spouse, or grown children, Marie’s mother is official next-of-kin, with full decision powers. She decides what treatment, if any, will be done to Marie, and she decides what will be done with her granddaughter Rosie.
If Rosie’s father is available, his wants for her take precedence over Grandma’s, but Marie’s “live-in”? Ain’t got nothin’ to say about nothin’.
Exactly. It’s one of the details that led me to understand that the lack of gay marriage had some serious repercussions that I had never considered. That, coupled with my understanding that the United States isn’t allowed to make religious standards into legal standards, is what led me to vote in favor of gay marriage, regardless of other factors.
That specific scenario made me flash back to the horrible feelings I had with the Elian Gonzales case, even though it’s kind of a flip side (the family living in the United States wanted to keep the boy, but the government kidnapped him in favor of his father living outside the United States). I know we shouldn’t make legal decisions based on emotions, but man, the idea of ripping a kid away from the family he’s familiar with eats away at me SO MUCH.
Well, we’ve been talking about cases that include emotional bonds.
But in the case of relationships where there’s a legal obligation to care for the child and legal right to determine certain things such as health care… yes? Just because a given set of adults might not have an emotional bond with a child doesn’t mean they couldn’t care for that child on a physical level, assuming they were emotionally stable and moral people themselves.
Love is at least as much an action as a feeling. And performing actions of love can lead to feelings of love — even if our society seems to have the cart before the horse.
Is it just me, or does Todd look like he wants NOTHING to do with this? Normally, I would take it as a Death Stare towards Andi, but it almost looks like he’s shooting it at Theo.
Perhaps that whole “I don’t need you to fix my life for me, Dad.” deal?
Perhaps that whole “oh look, it’s Andi’s agenda again” deal.
Let’s not forget that her first move, from Todd’s perspective, was to use Amanda to try to get back together with him again. Let’s not forget that, because it’s pretty clear Todd hasn’t forgotten that, and isn’t likely to forget or even consider forgiving anytime soon.
We’re all speculating at this point; that said, I’m seeing the glare as directed at Andi for making this about her again. If Todd had any doubts about Amanda’s parentage, he’d have expressed them by now. This is about protecting his (and, by extension, his parents’) rights with regards to Amanda.
Yeah, we’re all wanting to read so much into every expression, every nuance, and it’s totally possible that Todd is making that face because he really would like to take a crap and doesn’t want to stink up the house in front of his guests.
An at least equally valid interpretation of her bringing up the birth certificate is that she doesn´t want Amanda to go through the hassle of a DNA test, and/or does not want her to think Todd and his parents doubt that Todd is her father.
Making it about her? I don’t see it. Yes, of course she reacted with shock to the idea of a DNA test. That’s what a DNA test does, it determines whether people are related. When Theo asked for one, what else would be anyone’s first reaction?
You think he’s glaring because Andi didn’t instantly leap to the conclusion that wasn’t why Theo wanted it? I think you’re giving Todd too little credit, here. I think he’s still very angry with Andi, yes, but also a tad annoyed with Theo, who may be going just a bit too fast for him with this whole “restoring trust” thing.
Yeah… it’s a conflict. Amanda is Todd’s child, naturally he’s going to respond to that – but she is a prickly and thorny child, not especially likeable, and more importantly, she’s bullied Selkie, who IS 100% Todd’s daughter, by law and by choice. She’s also Todd’s child with Andi, the woman who he broke up with due to her unacceptable (to Todd) views on adoption, and putting him on the birth certificate means forging a legal tie with Andi that Todd is at this moment probably REALLY not eager to have.
So while Todd’s BRAIN probably agrees 100% with Theo, the rest of him is probably doing ten different kinds of Get That Woman Out Of My Home and WTF DAD JUST STOP, because human beings are funny like that.
So hey I know this isn’t appropriate to do here and I’m not looking for sympathy, I just need to leave some sort of something behind to prove I existed. Today my mother, which I previously had a lot of problems with, but we reconnected… sort of… decided to choose her brother over her daughters.
I cannot live here with her and this man. He is an awful person and abusive. Today was the last straw and I no longer could sit on the sidelines while he constantly abused my sister, her boyfriend and I. He has yet to do anything to my 8 month old niece, but I know he will eventually. Today I snapped and told him and my mother how I felt and said he either leaves the house or I do.
My mother chose him.
Rather than live my life on the streets as I have no surviving family, I am choosing to take my life by my own means. This comic was wonderful and even though I often voiced opinions no one liked, I still very much liked it here.
Thank you very much for this comic and I hope Selkie and Amanda have a happy fairy tale ending to their story.
Springpop I really hope I’m not too late in seeing this but if you are still there, please don’t take your own life. If you want someone to talk to about it, you’re welcome to email me and I’d be happy to listen and help however I can. You have options, please don’t hurt yourself over this.
Hey, SpringPop, I hope you check back here before you make any irreversible decisions, because I’ve been where you are, and I’m still here now. I don’t know your pain, because I’m not you, but I understand that type of pain, only too well. It IS survivable. You CAN make it through this. It won’t be easy, and the worst part isn’t what you face in the world but what you have to face inside yourself… but it can be done. You can not only survive, you can SUCCEED. You CAN have an awesome life. You CAN be happy.
“Alone” is hard, but it isn’t the end of the world. The only thing that can do that is if you choose to end yourself. Please don’t do that. There is so much good stuff ahead for you… if you can just power through the tough times long enough to see the light at the end of the tunnel. It CAN get better. I promise.
SpringPop, I’m another one who has gone through a time when I really couldn’t see a rational reason to continue to suffer, as I could see no hope of any compensatory value or pleasure in my life in the future. I am so very glad, now, that I finally came up with the flimsiest of excuses to continue to take up space on the planet: I have a good sense of humor. At the time it was manifesting as a series of horribly dark internal jokes about death and suicide. I thought they were hilarious. (Can’t remember any of them now; probably a good thing.) Eventually the thought crossed my mind, “Y’know, anybody who can crack wise under these circumstances probably oughtta stick around, just in case something else is funny someday.”
That has no direct bearing on your current situation, especially since it has so recently been brought home to you what you have long suspected, that your mother would not choose you, when forced to choose. But it’s analogous or metaphorical: I guarantee you that if you give yourself enough time to think, you WILL see a reason that you are necessary and purposeful.
Off the top of my head, I can come up with a couple of suggestions: Your sister. Your niece. These might be reasons that you are required to stick around. You may feel powerless to help them now, but every 24 hours you exist adds its tiny, microscopic increment to your power. The day may come — I’d say it’s practically inevitable — when either your sister or your niece or both would be very relieved and grateful if you were there to shelter them.
Not trying to guilt-trip you; I’m just saying that you might want to consider just the LOGICAL POSSIBILITY that there is a good reason for your existence, which you simply can’t see right this instant.
Write to Dave and then do what he tells you; he’s a smart guy.
Also, google “Suicide Hotline” and do what *they* tell you; they’re smart too.
My turn for show and tell I guess. As I said below, I war with depression every day. I mentioned in an earlier strip that I got bullied all my life, ultimately leading to an attempted blinding on me.
I’ve spent those years every damn fucking day being called ugly and useless. Every school, and I moved A LOT. I even got beat up in front of teachers, five on one and the teachers walked away.
I fight days where I want to get hit by a car or become a victim of random violence. Yes, I get help. I am in no real danger.
You know what helps me? My rage for one. I am too angry to do anything but fight some days and I can’t fight if I’ve given up. And I refuse to let them win. I also talk to the few, oh so very few people I trust.
I also surround myself with beauty. Art, music, animation, and those near to me.
Finally, I’ve changed the hate I was exposed to into amusement. I embrace I’m ugly. If I’m hated and evil, then allow me to be hated and evil. You ain’t seen nothing yet.
I wanted to tell this Springpop in case you’re still reading, and anyone thinking it will never end. Keep fighting. Don’t ever let those bastards wear you down. If they knock you down do what your uncle GallowsNoose does: get up and bite their faces off.
SpringPop, please consider other options. There are people who can help you; you just need to find them. A suicide hotline is a start — the TV Tropes page has a lot of numbers here (depending on where you live and whether you’re part of a high-risk group such as teens, LGBTQ, or the like): http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/UsefulNotes/SuicidePrevention
Your local library probably also has information on resources in the community. I know sometimes it’s hard to get the information you need when you need it, but there are a lot of people who want to help you. There are people all over the internet who are invested in trying to help people who feel like there are no options left.
I agree with Khlovia that there is a logical possibility that there’s a good reason for your continued existence. Even if you can’t help your sister and niece right now. Even if you feel like you have to get out of that situation to save yourself, and can’t stay there to help them, it’s okay, you can go find a better situation to be in.
Heck, if you’re in the same area as another Selkie fan, maybe they’d let you crash on their couch for a while. If you let us know where you are, I could put up a call for help on the Markiplier fanbase — there are ten MILLION of us so far, so it’s likely that at least a few of them live close to you and might be willing to let you stay with them for a while.
You are a unique and irreplaceable individual who is valuable from that alone. Please don’t throw that away.
Really late, just saw this. I very much hope you rethought this and this isn’t coming too late.
I was 14 when I figured out my mother didn’t have it in her to love anybody. Not me, not my five sibs, not even herself. At the time, I thought it was me (and I still fight that, it doesn’t go away.) That shock of recognition was the largest part of why I tried to kill myself then, unsuccessfully.
Thing is you do not know the difference you’ll make in the future. I am 40 now, these are the things that have happened since:
I saved a teenager’s life. Because of what I went through, I saw her imploding. Because I recognized the signs of implosion, I poked and prodded until she admitted her grandfather molested her. Because my husband and I took it seriously, she worked up the courage to tell her family instead of killing herself in a vicious cycle of self-blame – which is what she eventually told us she’d planned.
I saved an old man’s life. Four techs missed a pharmaceutical error, including the one who should’ve checked the dosage when it arrived. Definitely saved the facility a lawsuit, might’ve saved it from being shut down because it was already barely making money as it was thanks to being located in a low income, rural area (in which case I likely saved that small town one of their major job sources, many kids from that area used it as a springboard to better jobs), probably saved those four from accidental manslaughter charges and the facility manager from being replaced.
I was still around for the happiest day of my life. There actually can be days where everything goes so right that it hurts, like popping an old skin too small. Would never have believed it myself, until I found it for myself and it took until I was 30ish to finally find that day.
I got to see my sister grow up and now my nephew. We weren’t on the best of terms to start with, my parents set us at each others’ throats (still not sure how much of that was intentional and how much just subconsciously following their bad parents’ examples). Some of the problem was also me reacting badly to depression from being treated like a worthless cog in their machine. It has taken years, there are still setbacks (her knee jerk reaction is to defend my parents’ shitty behaviors, she wasn’t around or was too little to remember the worst physical abuse) but we are repairing the damage. Having a child has changed her in ways I’d’ve never dreamed possible as well. My nephew is unbelievably awesome; one of the things on my list of stuff I’m glad I didn’t miss is him (2 yrs old, making truck sounds) pushing me (39), then his mom (29) on a little tricycle around the drive. I don’t think any of us laughed so hard in our lives except maybe when our friend’s soccer playing rat terrier stole his ball out from under that same neph who thought it safe cuz he was sitting on it. Those incidents may not seem like a big deal in the larger scheme of things, but they are to me.
This is a brief smattering of things I couldn’t imagine were possible when I tried to kill myself. In the end, these and others have been enough to tip the balance in favor of not killing myself through other bad experiences (brother died, son died, marriage has some problems). Life isn’t perfect, but I am glad more oft than not that I am still hanging around.
The ways you impact the world will be different from the ways I did, but there will be impact. Not saying these things to be bragging, most of it is just doing what I feel I’m supposed to to be someone I can live with. However, talking about them seemed to help my teenage friend recognize there might be something worth seeing beyond the hurt of now. There is, but it takes a lot of work and not giving up to get there. Some days the not giving up is a lot harder than it should be.
That is a very good point: You don’t know what even a couple of years’ difference might make in your life. You don’t know what you might look back on if you stick around long enough to look back at yourself.
As I said above, I’m a Markiplier fan (Markiplite). In his video detailing the major moments of his life, he points out that before making his YouTube channel, he was at his lowest moment. He wasn’t being abused, but everything that could possibly go wrong for him was going wrong, and he didn’t know what he could possibly do about it.
So once he got out of the hospital, he struggled through his normal life, and he also started a YouTube channel, almost on a whim. And it started out pretty stupid. But he kept at it, and in about three years’ time he managed to draw in ten million people who enjoy his work and want to see more of it. Three years! He’s been able to work with his fanbase to raise over $600,000 for charity in that time.
Some of it was raised for the Depression and Bipolar Support Alliance. To reach out to people who are at their lowest point, and help them to get through it. Because if you can get through your lowest point, you really don’t know what a couple years’ difference might make.
Last year, in one of his subscriber milestone videos, he said that for the first time in his life, in looking back at everything that happened to him, he wouldn’t want to change a thing. Because everything that happened in his life led him to where he was then — the life he’s enjoying now is something he could never have predicted. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSHGOHP2Fyg&feature=youtu.be&t=37
This thought is one of the things that keeps ME going. Not the only thing, but when I’m looking at my life and thinking it’s a big mess, and when my brain tries to convince me that nothing will get better ever, that too much is wasted already, I look at Markiplier and think “You don’t know what a couple years will bring.” So I keep going.
Because nothing that happens to me is ever really wasted: It all shapes me into who I’m going to be in the future. And I trust that God is using it to do good in the long run, even if I can’t see now how it’s all going to work together. That’s something I can cling to: “This, too, shall pass.”
I don’t like Amanda. At all. She’s like every kid who ever picked on me in school, and one in particular who even happened to have the same hair color. And I don’t like Andi, for much the same reason. These are characters that don’t just come across to me as unlikeable: they tweak every exposed nerve I’ve got, and are actively horrible in my eyes.
And you’ve made me feel empathy for both of them, separately and together; you can’t make me like them, but you’ve led me to understand them, so subtly and naturally that it’s only now, sitting thunderstruck in front of my computer after months of active readership, that I realize how thoroughly you’ve done so… and how that empathy for your characters has and is sneaking through to color the rest of my perceptions, and come to terms with aspects of my past I never thought I could.
Well, using Todd’s career as Andi’s is more nebulous. Todd is an architect, and one that’s been in the game for a while. So assuming he got in at 18, got in some Ap classes, 6 years for a degree, 4 years as a conservative estimate. Late twenties at 28, early thirties if we’re not conservative with 32.
I concur. Damn. 🙁 I’m trying to decide if I should say anything on the Facebook page and in the blog entry or not. If she hasn’t gone through with it I don’t want to draw a lot of attention onto her, but if she has I feel like I want to at least acknowledge somewhere that her plight’s been seen, you know?
Otherwise, yeah I’m fine. I’m mostly just tired. I need to get on a better sleep schedule, hoping the hiatus helps with that.
Not sure if I understand right, but “lettercol” means the comic comments right? Yeah I’m fine with that, too. Mostly I’m just becoming irritated with pissing matches breaking out over differences of opinion. I really don’t want to be the “iron fist” kind of admin, but it’s becoming a little bit more apparent day-by-day that I may be TOO permissive. It’s.. well, irritating but manageable is the best I have to describe my side of it.
Thank you for the concern, I really appreciate it. 🙂
I apologize for my part in it. I tend to enjoy a brisk argument a little too much at times. So if I made anyone upset, then I am sorry.
As for Springpop. I happened across her message about half an hour after she made it. I found myself starring at the wall for a while after. *Shakes head* I pray she decided to think things through or she failed and now, or soon sees the support. I want to grab her, let her talk and then show that she is not alone and is stronger than this.
We all face such moments. Depression is a common war. Hell, I fight it every day. It’s harder when your family does not have your back. Please people, if the dark seems insurmountable. If the mountain is too heavy to carry alone. Please call the local suicide hotline. You do NOT need to be alone.
And yes, I hope anyone reading this who needs it knows that there are resources out there to help you if you are in need. No body has to deal with suicide alone.
If anybody does get in touch with her personally, reiterate the offer to find someone she could stay with. I meant it about the Markiplites (Markiplier fanbase): He’s been encouraging his community to reach out to those in need, and there’s already ten million subscribers and who knows how many other people who enjoy his videos but don’t subscribe. Wherever SpringPop happens to be, almost certainly there are Markiplites in the area.
Mark’s close friend and roommate recently took his own life. That gives us all the more reason to reach out and try to stop others from treading that path. I’ve been reaching out to those on YouTube who are depressed (even as young as fifth grade) and trying to give them what help I can, even if it’s nothing more than a caring ear to listen to them. If each person in the community steps in wherever they can see to help, it can really make a difference. I hope in this case it’s not too late 🙁
Right now you are in shock. You are in shock because your shockingly reprehensible mother has behaved shockingly. Of course you are in shock; how could you not be? It would be weird if you were *not* in shock.
But nonetheless I would like to suggest that you turn your stunned, shocked gaze away from your idiot mother, and focus instead upon that large globule of slime, your uncle. Just how happy do you want to make him? DO YOU REALLY WANT TO HAND HIM SUCH A TREMENDOUS VICTORY? That thing is going to be snickering all the way to the funeral. Wow, what a load of fun that will be for your sister. Picture it: whenever your mother isn’t looking, he’s going to be letting your sister know how entertaining he finds her grief. You CANNOT let her go through that.
Slightly over 24 hours ago, as I write this, your sister saw someone stand up for her. She saw someone be brave for her. It may well have been the first time she experienced anything like that. But…then…that same person just…turns around and goes away? No no no no, you cannot let her go through that, either.
Take Kilyle’s advice. Take GallowsNoose’s advice. Also try this: Call the National Domestic Violence Hotline, or google it, from a safe place, like a library. 1-800-799-SAFE (7233) http://www.thehotline.org/help/
They can advise you about the best way you can extricate yourself from your immediate situation. You tell them your circumstances, and then they bring all their considerable expertise to bear onto the pragmatics of getting you the hell out of there. (And you have to do that first, before you can help your sister and niece. You can’t provide them sanctuary until you *have* a sanctuary to provide; so getting yourself to sanctuary is your top priority for right now.)
That’s for the short term.
For the long term, there’s good news and bad news. The bad news is really bad: Some total strangers, whom you have never met and most likely never will, who are nothing to you but pixels on the screen, care more about you than your own mother does. Isn’t that awful? (I’m not worried that will bring you further down, since you were already well aware of your idiot mother’s shocking reprehensibility.)
But here’s the good news: Some total strangers, whom you have never met and most likely never will, who are nothing to you but pixels on the screen, CARE ABOUT YOU. What that boils down to is that you belong to what is actually a pretty interesting species. You should stick around and explore the implications of that.
The detail I keep focusing on is… we don’t even know where SpringPop lives. We have zero details whereby to locate her family. I hope she didn’t go through with her plans, and that she gets some local help — a place to stay for the short term, help finding a more long-term solution — in part because I can’t see any other way for her sister and niece to get the help THEY need.
The police, and court system, are going to need to be involved at some point. I hope that’s before the niece gets abused, and not after.
You know, I keep a folder of somewhere between 50-100 webcomic bookmarks. Keeping up with all of them daily would consume more time than I want to set aside for them, so often it’s days or even weeks before I catch some of them up. I don’t hate having a few updates worth of my favourites to catch up with at a time.
That being said, as I work my way down my lists, there’s a special delight when I get to Selkie, and I realize it’s been long enough for there to have been an update! Selkie is special enough to stand out among the 100s of other webcomics. Pinning down exactly what it is about it that makes it so engaging would be challenging, but ultimately unnecessary.
I love this comic and eagerly await its every update! Keep it up Dave! ^_^/
I’m an archive binge type. I hate waiting for updates and prefer to let a bunch of them build up over time. There are only a handful of comics at any one time that I keep updated on as often as their update schedule. The comics I’m invested in enough to do that change now and then.
Selkie’s been on that short list for months. Right now, the others are Leftover Soup, El Goonish Shive, and Freefall.
That’s not counting those that update in a slower or more sporadic fashion, where I keep hopping back to see if there’s anything up — right now that list includes Goblins, Lackadaisy, Order of the Stick, Erfworld, Vattu, PS238, and Doomsday, My Dear. (It’s possible some of these have a standard update schedule I just haven’t spotted yet.)
I’m glad there are some I can generally count on for updates, because there are enough sporadic updaters to make it hard for me to keep my patience.
Excellent move. A move to keep Amanda safe from the system. Like I said, Theo is on the ball.
I <3 Theo….
Now THAT is a clever, clever proof. And it is 100% true.
I don’t know if she can just fill in the “father” slot or not, though; the DNA test may be necessary if the at-time-of-birth thing has that left empty.
…she kept a copy of Amanda’s birth certificate? Awwwwwwwwww!
I dunno if it depends on the state or if it’s a country-wide thing, but in cases where a couple is in need of a sperm donor (and possibly an egg donor, or in some situations they may need both) even though the woman’s husband may not be the baby’s biological father he is allowed to be listed on the birth certificate as the father.
And this is just a guess but either she did keep a copy of it, or it was returned to her after regaining custody of Amanda. ‘Cos her adoptive parents would have needed it, and then when they gave her up they would’ve needed to give it to the orphanage.
Sorry, adding on to my first little paragraph. >.<
Ergo, a DNA test probably won't be needed to put Todd's name on the birth certificate. Though if he also wants to gain parental custody of Amanda, that may require some legal action which may involve a DNA test. 'Cos the legal system doesn't care much about whether or not a spouse had cheated or not on the other one, they still need it done so it can be official.
I wondered about that too, whether it’d be more complicated after 8 years.
So I looked it up online. Apparently not. It’s pretty straightforward. In Wisconsin, when the mother is unmarried, there’s a Voluntary Paternity Acknowledgement form. This can be signed and notarized and filed with the Office of Vital Records, any time after the child is born. This fully establishes legal paternity.
(However, a court action to establish paternity must occur before the child’s 19th birthday.)
But, y’know. That’s a bit long for webcomic dialog! What Andi said is a perfectly good shorthand for, “We’ll both sign a form and make Todd Amanda’s legal father.”
I read about a case where a man was tricked into putting his name on a birth certificate only to later find out he was not the biological father. A judge said he still had to pay child support even though it wasn’t his child. So, if some woman claims you got her pregnant, demand a DNA test before you sign anything.
There’s at least one case where CPS went after the wrong guy (who shared a name with the right guy), and because he went “Pfff yeah right, I don’t need to deal with this because there’s no reason I would have a kid with some strange lady,” and therefore didn’t protest the court order to pay child support in a timely manner, that even after it was proven he wasn’t the dad, the court maintained that he still had to pay child support until the kid was full-grown.
I have serious problems with a system that sets aside money for this, that, and the other weird study or luxury or what have you, but fiscally penalizes a man for having a common name, and instead of saying “Whoops, our fault that this screw-up happened,” they say “Hey, if it was a screw-up you would’ve told us, right? You’re signed up for life.”
Of course, this is also a country where rape victims can be forced to pay child support for the life of the kid their rapist gave birth to. Never minding all the questions about how much of that money is just benefiting the rapist instead of the kid.
And, on the flip side, if a guy rapes a woman (or girl) and the victim gets pregnant and decides to keep the baby, in many states the court maintains that the rapist has visitation rights. Even if the victim was underage at the time and basic common sense would say that the child is at increased risk of abuse.
There are times when it hits me particularly strongly just how messed up this world is.
These are all good reasons for why I think it would be a good thing if people were required to get a parenting licence before allowed to have/keep children… No parenting licence? No children for you, and if you end up giving birth to one anyway, it’s given to someone who actually passed the test.
Note, however, that in my scenario the licence requirements would be fairly easy, if you’re a sane (further note, I don’t consider a non-psychotic mental illness that’s being kept under control with medication and/or therapy, as counting as “insane”) adult with the minimum monetary means needed to raise a child. Also I know it wouldn’t be fool-proof, but you could lose the licence (and any children) if you turned out to be, say, an abuser.
Yes, I know many people disagree with this idea, but it would help keep so many children out of dismal conditions that I do honestly think it should be applied in the real world.
And no, it’s not the same as eugenics, before someone brings that up.
Why not a psychotic mental illness that’s kept under control by medication/therapy? Psychosis simply means a break from reality, it’s got nothing to do with violence.
Maybe, but only after they’ve start requiring licences for people to be able to publicly speak their minds.
This would have to be coupled with government-provided birth control and abortions. Otherwise, you’d simply end up with overcrowded group homes.
It would be more like government mandated. Perhaps with some forced sterilizations added for good measure.
With parenting, even if you have studied and passed the test, it still doesn’t completely prepare you for the task.
Second you bring up forced sterilizations, you’ve lost me. That has been a tool used genocidally in the past (I’ve got native blood, not enough to affiliate with a tribe but enough to know my lineage and pay attention). It’s too easy to use it to target specific races. Speaking as somebody who’s lived in a subzero sleeping bag in a house with no heat, rather than pack sardine style in a heated travel trailer, there are things worse than simply being poor (which can change with a little work and luck); forced sterilization is one of them. Humans being humans, you can’t guarantee impartiality.
“The government sometimes screws over innocent people” –> “People shouldn’t be allowed to have (or at least keep) kids without jumping through government hoops.”
…Have you ever heard the term “Non Sequitur”?
As far as your basic argument, though: For one, you should totally read Leftover Soup; the Florenovia ideals fit right in with yours.
For two, I tend to base a certain level of pragmatics around this idea: Are we doing okay with the factors we’re already dealing with, such that it would make sense to branch out and deal with more?
In this case: Are we doing all right by the kids who are currently in the system? If we’re doing okay with them, then maybe it would be reasonable to add more children into the mix. Bear in mind, the numbers you’re proposing would be HIGH.
I would say that we are definitely NOT doing okay by the kids in foster care right now. There are countless examples of kids being abused within the foster care system because the court didn’t vet the foster parents well enough — or because the court is incapable of vetting the foster parents’ friends and extended family, and it’s sadly not uncommon for a friend or relative to watch the kids for a while and abuse them — so there are definitely cases where the kids get taken away from a certain situation and put into a worse one, and sometimes this results in death.
So if we can’t manage to do better than that for our current load of foster kids, I oppose, on the grounds of pragmatism and of ethics (specifically related to putting kids in potentially worse situations), the idea of a parenting license.
If we got the system into better shape and had fewer of the horror stories, then we can talk about whether it’s ethical or reasonable to have parenting licenses, and the types of logistical nightmares a licensing program would bring up.
Thanks for speaking up, Kilyle.
Should also note that kids that were sexually abused and taken away have also been known to sexually abuse their “new” sibs. It doesn’t even necessarily have to be the parents/relatives, all it takes is for the foster parents to be overloaded enough proper supervision flags.
Yes Hanna. So many kids; not enough Earth. When I am ready and if I want children: I’m adopting from Foster. I have met kids when placed in child protection for my own abusive parents who were hurt so bad THEY COULDN’T EVEN READ. They gave up on life. No one loved them, they wouldn’t bother with something like reading.
I wouldn’t take kids away though: I’d tax the parents. Tax payers shouldn’t have to pay for people’s mistakes.
I am called selfish all the time for being a women without having kids: no… people who have kids are selfish. :\ you can’t say you had a child for the child when it didn’t exist when you got pregnant. And if you want to cry “accidents happen!!!!” then don’t make ME pay taxes for your fuck ups 😉 (I’m not talking rape in this.)
It’s not fair how much men are hurt when things like what you speak of happen.
The general argument “Why should innocent people have to pay for your bad decisions and moral lapses?” is one I tend to agree with, and a problem I have with our current system and some trends it’s heading for as well.
However, the line “I wouldn’t take the kids away though: I’d tax the parents” makes me wonder which group of parents you’re referring to.
If you mean parents who are being actually abusive: I completely disagree with leaving them in an abusive household.
If, however, you mean parents who have more kids than they can reasonably afford to take care of (the original set I think we were discussing), then… how exactly do you propose this to work? “You don’t have enough money to have these children. We’re going to take more of your money away now.”
There’s also the general principle that says: Kids shouldn’t have to pay for their parents’ mistakes (even though logically, this happens a lot), and if we set up a system that penalizes children unduly for their parents’ bad decisions, we’re setting up a “sins of the father” chain that just leads to worse and worse circumstances as the generations go by.
I’m mostly an independent Capitalist, but even I buy into what got said once, that money spent for certain public benefits (such as education, health care and the like) is actually a tax to REDUCE CRIME. Because people who are desperate and don’t have the resources to help themselves and their families more readily turn to crime because what else are you going to do? Crime rate are associated with a number of factors that our liberal system is trying to fix, and while I question their methods and effectiveness and some of the actual choices being made, I acknowledge that it doesn’t help society if we just push additional burdens onto the people least able to deal with the burdens they have now.
Ì´m not sure Andi kept a copy of the birth certificate; I´d guess she received a copy when she claimed Amanda at the orphanage.
Wow this comic hits so close to me on so many things. I’m right now trying to get my birth father on my birth certificate so I can claim my tribal affiliation (a different situation, the Catholic hospital was awful to an unwed mother giving up her baby, just told her “don’t bother filling out the father slot, it doesn’t matter”)
Hmm, that sounds like a detail that would help flesh out the story I’m writing. I take it your birth mother does not have tribal affiliation then? At what point did the lack of legal proof begin to cause you problems, and what sort of problems have you encountered? (I’m assuming it’s more than just “I am part of the tribe and want you to acknowledge that.”)
My mother is part Native too but doesn’t have proof, part of the problem is the government system of records, if your family didn’t register as Indians then they don’t get to claim it now (and back when this was set up you’d pretty much lose your land if you said you were Native so anyone who was pale enough to pass as white did so). My dad on the other hand actually has a card so I’d be eligible for one too if I had any proof that he was my father (through my dad I have an ancestor who survived the Trail of Tears!)
I no longer live on traditional tribal land so I wouldn’t be eligible for free medical and dental, but I could still be eligible for scholarship help, and more importantly if I had a card I could sell my art as “Native art” and be able to show in those Galleries (right now I can’t because I have no proof other than my dark eyes and high cheekbones)
A parent can request a certified copy of a birth certificate from their local government offices. ;p
Theo continues to be amazing in every way. Not sure why Todd suddenly decided it was time to glare, seems pointless. Anyways, Theo is right, they need something in the case of something bad happening to Andi. Cause I mean, unless Andi gets married in the near future and the person she marries legally adopts Amanda, the poor kid wouldn’t have anybody to legally care for her.
It’s worse than that. If Todd is not placed in position as Amanda’s legal parent, Amanda would end up being given to Andi’s mother who has already expressed wanting to have nothing to do with her.
Well…. that WOULD play into Amanda’s “Cinderella” fascination… 😉
Would she legally be obliged to take her?
I don’t see where she would be legally obligated. She could refuse custody, and give Amanda back to the system. But she could, if Todd has no “paper trail”, refuse allowing him or his family any contact. You know, if she hates him for “getting my little baby pregnant, and ruining her life”.
That actually brings up another very important point — not only does Todd need to be on the birth certificate as the father, but Todd and Andi need to name a guardian for Amanda in case something happens to both of them. As things are (unless Andi has any other relatives who’d be willing to take Amanda), custody would likely revert to Andi’s mother. If she refuses custody and puts Amanda back into the system, Todd (or Theo and Mari, if something’s happened to Todd) may be able to get custody, but it could be a lengthy, time-consuming process … and, in the meantime, Amanda’s feeling abandoned again.
Not to mention that if Andi’s mother did take custody and Amanda hated her and/or wasn’t doing well with her, it would take lawsuits to get custody transferred…
Yeah, the legal stuff needs sorting out. Yay, Theo, for thinking of this point! (And I do admit, it would be interesting to see how fast Andi would be willing to name Theo and Mari as Guardians In Case Of Both Parents Being Unavailable.)
It might be Theo that Todd is glaring at, I’m not sure.
Ehhhh… my birth certificate also has an empty ‘father’ spot.
Now I feel weird about it.
Mine has a name. And that’s all it is. Just a name.
Don’t feel weird. It doesn’t matter.
Theo really can get info without doing much. XD
I might add, if Todd’s name is not on the birth certificate, then Selkie and Amanda are not yet legal siblings.
The way I see that is it’s just from a legal standpoint. Selkie is legally is daughter, just because Amanda isn’t legally his daughter that doesn’t cancel out the fact that she’s biologically his daughter.
But that’s just technicalities, really.
Another thing, I hope Amanda isn’t afraid of needles.
Why would it be a problem if she’s afraid of needles? They can do DNA tests from cheek swabs etc.
Here’s a thought … take Amanda to Dr. Pohl to have the DNA test done.
There’s a secondary bonus here. Amanda’s peace of mind. This is telling her, or will if she’s not snooping, that she is wanted, being thought of, and protected by her father’s side.
So. This makes Theo the fairy godmother.
“So. This makes Theo the fairy godmother.”
Oh my gosh. Yes. Yes. I love it!
Because you KNOW, as I do, that given a chance Theo would ROCK a pink tutu and sparkling tiara, he would own that shiz and wear it PROUDLY, without an ounce of self-consciousness, and with all the dramatic emphasis he could manage.
…Dave? If you could find a way to fit this imagery into the storyline somehow, it… it would be beautiful. You know it would.
They do saliva DNA tests nowadays. She’ll probably think it’s fun and silly.
I do human genetics research. While the “spit kits” are ok, we much prefer getting DNA from blood. The quantity of DNA is smaller in the saliva kits, the contamination level is greater (lots of bacteria grown in your mouth), and we see a much higher failure rate in genetic tests done with DNA from saliva kits.
I’m at a loss. I thought Todd and his siblings were adopted—as is Selkie, for that matter—so what’s one more non-biological-relation in a grandchild / grandparent relationship?
As stated, it’s not the biological relationship Theo’s worried about, it’s the legal one, and the possibility – if anything happens to Andi – of losing track of Amanda again.
When I adopted my daughter, I went down to the hall of records with a copy of the adoption paper, and now I am on her birth certificate as her father, even though she was ten before I ever met her.
I’m certain that Theo and Marie are listed on Todd’s birth certificate as his parents. That’s just a normal thing to do.
So if Todd is “paper-tied” to Amanda as her father, if Todd and Andi both bought it in a car wreck, or caught Swine Flu, or whatever, Theo and Marie would still be LEGALLY Amanda’s next-of-kin. No question – “We have here proof that Todd was her father, and proof that Todd was our son, so obviously she is our granddaughter.”
You need that paper-trail.
“Legally” isn’t “emotionally.” Whether there’s any bond between them is still up for grabs. I read once that Joe DiMaggio’s son Joe Jr. adopted two girls (I think), and, despite problems between Joe Sr. and Joe Jr., Joe Sr. never treated the girls as anything but his grandchildren. That’s the kind of bond I meant.
No, legally isn’t emotionally, but emotionally doesn’t mean a hill of beans if Andi gets hit by a bus and Amanda goes back to the orphanage because there’s no legal paperwork to justify doing otherwise.
Emotional bonds are going to take time and effort to build, but in the meantime MAYBE we want to make sure that this traumatized little kid doesn’t end up more traumatized in the event of a worst-case scenario.
This is actually an issue at the heart of some of the gay marriage debate, too, and I was surprised to learn how many things become huge hassles or even legal impossibilities if there’s not an established legal relationship.
Consider if Andi and Amanda got in a car wreck, where Andi was comatose and Amanda in urgent need of care. Todd COULD NOT sign release forms to say the doctors could do what they needed to help Amanda — because he’s not legally her father.
Or if Andi died, Todd couldn’t make decisions about Amanda’s residence, education, medical issues… even discipline would be iffy.
Now consider the homosexual setup: Two women (Jessica and Marie, say) have been raising Marie’s daughter (say Rosie) from a previous relationship, and Marie gets hit by a car and ends up comatose.
Who gets to sign paperwork authorizing the doctors to do what’s needed to help Marie — or to honor her wish to have a DNR order in the case of a coma? What happens when Jessica’s decisions about Marie clash with Marie’s parents, who believe that homosexuality is sinful and have for a long time not really acknowledged Marie’s relationship with Jessica?
What happens to Rosie? Marie can’t care for her; does she stay with Jessica, someone she’s known as “Mom” for two years now? Until recently, Marie’s parents would have a greater claim to Rosie than Jessica would, because no legal relationship existed between Jessica and Rosie. They had an entire episode of… Law & Order? about this issue. It was eye-opening.
Because regardless of everything else in the debate, if a kid’s grown up calling someone “Mom,” they’ve got a relationship with them that ought to be supported by the legal system (assuming they’re not in that relationship due to kidnapping a la Rapunzel). To rip them away from that relationship over definitions is horrifically unjust to the child.
If they are just “living together”, Jessica’s decisions have no bearing.
Next of kin goes in order. Spouse, grown children, parents, grandparents, aunts/uncles, cousins.
Without a spouse, or grown children, Marie’s mother is official next-of-kin, with full decision powers. She decides what treatment, if any, will be done to Marie, and she decides what will be done with her granddaughter Rosie.
If Rosie’s father is available, his wants for her take precedence over Grandma’s, but Marie’s “live-in”? Ain’t got nothin’ to say about nothin’.
Exactly. It’s one of the details that led me to understand that the lack of gay marriage had some serious repercussions that I had never considered. That, coupled with my understanding that the United States isn’t allowed to make religious standards into legal standards, is what led me to vote in favor of gay marriage, regardless of other factors.
That specific scenario made me flash back to the horrible feelings I had with the Elian Gonzales case, even though it’s kind of a flip side (the family living in the United States wanted to keep the boy, but the government kidnapped him in favor of his father living outside the United States). I know we shouldn’t make legal decisions based on emotions, but man, the idea of ripping a kid away from the family he’s familiar with eats away at me SO MUCH.
If there isn’t an emotional bond, is there any point in a legal bond?
Well, we’ve been talking about cases that include emotional bonds.
But in the case of relationships where there’s a legal obligation to care for the child and legal right to determine certain things such as health care… yes? Just because a given set of adults might not have an emotional bond with a child doesn’t mean they couldn’t care for that child on a physical level, assuming they were emotionally stable and moral people themselves.
Love is at least as much an action as a feeling. And performing actions of love can lead to feelings of love — even if our society seems to have the cart before the horse.
Anybody want to speculate what “THAT” is?
Putting Todd on the birth certificate as the father.
Is it just me, or does Todd look like he wants NOTHING to do with this? Normally, I would take it as a Death Stare towards Andi, but it almost looks like he’s shooting it at Theo.
Perhaps that whole “I don’t need you to fix my life for me, Dad.” deal?
Perhaps that whole “oh look, it’s Andi’s agenda again” deal.
Let’s not forget that her first move, from Todd’s perspective, was to use Amanda to try to get back together with him again. Let’s not forget that, because it’s pretty clear Todd hasn’t forgotten that, and isn’t likely to forget or even consider forgiving anytime soon.
The glare could also be a quick scoff at his dad for choosing Salmonella as his third potential killer.
That’s how I’m looking at it. “Really dad? Salmonella really?”
We’re all speculating at this point; that said, I’m seeing the glare as directed at Andi for making this about her again. If Todd had any doubts about Amanda’s parentage, he’d have expressed them by now. This is about protecting his (and, by extension, his parents’) rights with regards to Amanda.
Yeah, we’re all wanting to read so much into every expression, every nuance, and it’s totally possible that Todd is making that face because he really would like to take a crap and doesn’t want to stink up the house in front of his guests.
How is Andi “making this about her again”?
An at least equally valid interpretation of her bringing up the birth certificate is that she doesn´t want Amanda to go through the hassle of a DNA test, and/or does not want her to think Todd and his parents doubt that Todd is her father.
I think maybe it’s a reaction to the “she’s practically a little clone” remark.
Well Theo made a pretty reasonable request given the circumstances and Andi’s first reaction was to freak out. I’d be annoyed too.
Making it about her? I don’t see it. Yes, of course she reacted with shock to the idea of a DNA test. That’s what a DNA test does, it determines whether people are related. When Theo asked for one, what else would be anyone’s first reaction?
You think he’s glaring because Andi didn’t instantly leap to the conclusion that wasn’t why Theo wanted it? I think you’re giving Todd too little credit, here. I think he’s still very angry with Andi, yes, but also a tad annoyed with Theo, who may be going just a bit too fast for him with this whole “restoring trust” thing.
Woops! That was meant to be a reply to Kent, above.
Yeah… it’s a conflict. Amanda is Todd’s child, naturally he’s going to respond to that – but she is a prickly and thorny child, not especially likeable, and more importantly, she’s bullied Selkie, who IS 100% Todd’s daughter, by law and by choice. She’s also Todd’s child with Andi, the woman who he broke up with due to her unacceptable (to Todd) views on adoption, and putting him on the birth certificate means forging a legal tie with Andi that Todd is at this moment probably REALLY not eager to have.
So while Todd’s BRAIN probably agrees 100% with Theo, the rest of him is probably doing ten different kinds of Get That Woman Out Of My Home and WTF DAD JUST STOP, because human beings are funny like that.
So hey I know this isn’t appropriate to do here and I’m not looking for sympathy, I just need to leave some sort of something behind to prove I existed. Today my mother, which I previously had a lot of problems with, but we reconnected… sort of… decided to choose her brother over her daughters.
I cannot live here with her and this man. He is an awful person and abusive. Today was the last straw and I no longer could sit on the sidelines while he constantly abused my sister, her boyfriend and I. He has yet to do anything to my 8 month old niece, but I know he will eventually. Today I snapped and told him and my mother how I felt and said he either leaves the house or I do.
My mother chose him.
Rather than live my life on the streets as I have no surviving family, I am choosing to take my life by my own means. This comic was wonderful and even though I often voiced opinions no one liked, I still very much liked it here.
Thank you very much for this comic and I hope Selkie and Amanda have a happy fairy tale ending to their story.
Springpop I really hope I’m not too late in seeing this but if you are still there, please don’t take your own life. If you want someone to talk to about it, you’re welcome to email me and I’d be happy to listen and help however I can. You have options, please don’t hurt yourself over this.
Hey, SpringPop, I hope you check back here before you make any irreversible decisions, because I’ve been where you are, and I’m still here now. I don’t know your pain, because I’m not you, but I understand that type of pain, only too well. It IS survivable. You CAN make it through this. It won’t be easy, and the worst part isn’t what you face in the world but what you have to face inside yourself… but it can be done. You can not only survive, you can SUCCEED. You CAN have an awesome life. You CAN be happy.
“Alone” is hard, but it isn’t the end of the world. The only thing that can do that is if you choose to end yourself. Please don’t do that. There is so much good stuff ahead for you… if you can just power through the tough times long enough to see the light at the end of the tunnel. It CAN get better. I promise.
SpringPop, I’m another one who has gone through a time when I really couldn’t see a rational reason to continue to suffer, as I could see no hope of any compensatory value or pleasure in my life in the future. I am so very glad, now, that I finally came up with the flimsiest of excuses to continue to take up space on the planet: I have a good sense of humor. At the time it was manifesting as a series of horribly dark internal jokes about death and suicide. I thought they were hilarious. (Can’t remember any of them now; probably a good thing.) Eventually the thought crossed my mind, “Y’know, anybody who can crack wise under these circumstances probably oughtta stick around, just in case something else is funny someday.”
That has no direct bearing on your current situation, especially since it has so recently been brought home to you what you have long suspected, that your mother would not choose you, when forced to choose. But it’s analogous or metaphorical: I guarantee you that if you give yourself enough time to think, you WILL see a reason that you are necessary and purposeful.
Off the top of my head, I can come up with a couple of suggestions: Your sister. Your niece. These might be reasons that you are required to stick around. You may feel powerless to help them now, but every 24 hours you exist adds its tiny, microscopic increment to your power. The day may come — I’d say it’s practically inevitable — when either your sister or your niece or both would be very relieved and grateful if you were there to shelter them.
Not trying to guilt-trip you; I’m just saying that you might want to consider just the LOGICAL POSSIBILITY that there is a good reason for your existence, which you simply can’t see right this instant.
Write to Dave and then do what he tells you; he’s a smart guy.
Also, google “Suicide Hotline” and do what *they* tell you; they’re smart too.
My turn for show and tell I guess. As I said below, I war with depression every day. I mentioned in an earlier strip that I got bullied all my life, ultimately leading to an attempted blinding on me.
I’ve spent those years every damn fucking day being called ugly and useless. Every school, and I moved A LOT. I even got beat up in front of teachers, five on one and the teachers walked away.
I fight days where I want to get hit by a car or become a victim of random violence. Yes, I get help. I am in no real danger.
You know what helps me? My rage for one. I am too angry to do anything but fight some days and I can’t fight if I’ve given up. And I refuse to let them win. I also talk to the few, oh so very few people I trust.
I also surround myself with beauty. Art, music, animation, and those near to me.
Finally, I’ve changed the hate I was exposed to into amusement. I embrace I’m ugly. If I’m hated and evil, then allow me to be hated and evil. You ain’t seen nothing yet.
I wanted to tell this Springpop in case you’re still reading, and anyone thinking it will never end. Keep fighting. Don’t ever let those bastards wear you down. If they knock you down do what your uncle GallowsNoose does: get up and bite their faces off.
SpringPop, please consider other options. There are people who can help you; you just need to find them. A suicide hotline is a start — the TV Tropes page has a lot of numbers here (depending on where you live and whether you’re part of a high-risk group such as teens, LGBTQ, or the like): http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/UsefulNotes/SuicidePrevention
Your local library probably also has information on resources in the community. I know sometimes it’s hard to get the information you need when you need it, but there are a lot of people who want to help you. There are people all over the internet who are invested in trying to help people who feel like there are no options left.
I agree with Khlovia that there is a logical possibility that there’s a good reason for your continued existence. Even if you can’t help your sister and niece right now. Even if you feel like you have to get out of that situation to save yourself, and can’t stay there to help them, it’s okay, you can go find a better situation to be in.
Heck, if you’re in the same area as another Selkie fan, maybe they’d let you crash on their couch for a while. If you let us know where you are, I could put up a call for help on the Markiplier fanbase — there are ten MILLION of us so far, so it’s likely that at least a few of them live close to you and might be willing to let you stay with them for a while.
You are a unique and irreplaceable individual who is valuable from that alone. Please don’t throw that away.
Also I’ve sent out a prayer request on your behalf.
Really late, just saw this. I very much hope you rethought this and this isn’t coming too late.
I was 14 when I figured out my mother didn’t have it in her to love anybody. Not me, not my five sibs, not even herself. At the time, I thought it was me (and I still fight that, it doesn’t go away.) That shock of recognition was the largest part of why I tried to kill myself then, unsuccessfully.
Thing is you do not know the difference you’ll make in the future. I am 40 now, these are the things that have happened since:
I saved a teenager’s life. Because of what I went through, I saw her imploding. Because I recognized the signs of implosion, I poked and prodded until she admitted her grandfather molested her. Because my husband and I took it seriously, she worked up the courage to tell her family instead of killing herself in a vicious cycle of self-blame – which is what she eventually told us she’d planned.
I saved an old man’s life. Four techs missed a pharmaceutical error, including the one who should’ve checked the dosage when it arrived. Definitely saved the facility a lawsuit, might’ve saved it from being shut down because it was already barely making money as it was thanks to being located in a low income, rural area (in which case I likely saved that small town one of their major job sources, many kids from that area used it as a springboard to better jobs), probably saved those four from accidental manslaughter charges and the facility manager from being replaced.
I was still around for the happiest day of my life. There actually can be days where everything goes so right that it hurts, like popping an old skin too small. Would never have believed it myself, until I found it for myself and it took until I was 30ish to finally find that day.
I got to see my sister grow up and now my nephew. We weren’t on the best of terms to start with, my parents set us at each others’ throats (still not sure how much of that was intentional and how much just subconsciously following their bad parents’ examples). Some of the problem was also me reacting badly to depression from being treated like a worthless cog in their machine. It has taken years, there are still setbacks (her knee jerk reaction is to defend my parents’ shitty behaviors, she wasn’t around or was too little to remember the worst physical abuse) but we are repairing the damage. Having a child has changed her in ways I’d’ve never dreamed possible as well. My nephew is unbelievably awesome; one of the things on my list of stuff I’m glad I didn’t miss is him (2 yrs old, making truck sounds) pushing me (39), then his mom (29) on a little tricycle around the drive. I don’t think any of us laughed so hard in our lives except maybe when our friend’s soccer playing rat terrier stole his ball out from under that same neph who thought it safe cuz he was sitting on it. Those incidents may not seem like a big deal in the larger scheme of things, but they are to me.
This is a brief smattering of things I couldn’t imagine were possible when I tried to kill myself. In the end, these and others have been enough to tip the balance in favor of not killing myself through other bad experiences (brother died, son died, marriage has some problems). Life isn’t perfect, but I am glad more oft than not that I am still hanging around.
The ways you impact the world will be different from the ways I did, but there will be impact. Not saying these things to be bragging, most of it is just doing what I feel I’m supposed to to be someone I can live with. However, talking about them seemed to help my teenage friend recognize there might be something worth seeing beyond the hurt of now. There is, but it takes a lot of work and not giving up to get there. Some days the not giving up is a lot harder than it should be.
That is a very good point: You don’t know what even a couple of years’ difference might make in your life. You don’t know what you might look back on if you stick around long enough to look back at yourself.
As I said above, I’m a Markiplier fan (Markiplite). In his video detailing the major moments of his life, he points out that before making his YouTube channel, he was at his lowest moment. He wasn’t being abused, but everything that could possibly go wrong for him was going wrong, and he didn’t know what he could possibly do about it.
So once he got out of the hospital, he struggled through his normal life, and he also started a YouTube channel, almost on a whim. And it started out pretty stupid. But he kept at it, and in about three years’ time he managed to draw in ten million people who enjoy his work and want to see more of it. Three years! He’s been able to work with his fanbase to raise over $600,000 for charity in that time.
Some of it was raised for the Depression and Bipolar Support Alliance. To reach out to people who are at their lowest point, and help them to get through it. Because if you can get through your lowest point, you really don’t know what a couple years’ difference might make.
Last year, in one of his subscriber milestone videos, he said that for the first time in his life, in looking back at everything that happened to him, he wouldn’t want to change a thing. Because everything that happened in his life led him to where he was then — the life he’s enjoying now is something he could never have predicted. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSHGOHP2Fyg&feature=youtu.be&t=37
This thought is one of the things that keeps ME going. Not the only thing, but when I’m looking at my life and thinking it’s a big mess, and when my brain tries to convince me that nothing will get better ever, that too much is wasted already, I look at Markiplier and think “You don’t know what a couple years will bring.” So I keep going.
Because nothing that happens to me is ever really wasted: It all shapes me into who I’m going to be in the future. And I trust that God is using it to do good in the long run, even if I can’t see now how it’s all going to work together. That’s something I can cling to: “This, too, shall pass.”
Hey, Dave,
I don’t like Amanda. At all. She’s like every kid who ever picked on me in school, and one in particular who even happened to have the same hair color. And I don’t like Andi, for much the same reason. These are characters that don’t just come across to me as unlikeable: they tweak every exposed nerve I’ve got, and are actively horrible in my eyes.
And you’ve made me feel empathy for both of them, separately and together; you can’t make me like them, but you’ve led me to understand them, so subtly and naturally that it’s only now, sitting thunderstruck in front of my computer after months of active readership, that I realize how thoroughly you’ve done so… and how that empathy for your characters has and is sneaking through to color the rest of my perceptions, and come to terms with aspects of my past I never thought I could.
Holy craps, that is some DAMN fine storytelling.
Thanks, man. You do GOOD work.
-Anna
Curious, has it been stated how old Andi and Todd are supposed to be?
Well, using Todd’s career as Andi’s is more nebulous. Todd is an architect, and one that’s been in the game for a while. So assuming he got in at 18, got in some Ap classes, 6 years for a degree, 4 years as a conservative estimate. Late twenties at 28, early thirties if we’re not conservative with 32.
That’s my estimate for them.
Andi had Amanda at 17, Amanda is 8 now, meaning Andi is 25, maybe 26. Todd is presumably the same age.
Dave, did SpringPop email you?
No, I haven’t received anything. 🙁
Well, damn.
…
Are *you* okay? I mean, you’ve been dealing with some *stuff* in the lettercol lately.
I concur. Damn. 🙁 I’m trying to decide if I should say anything on the Facebook page and in the blog entry or not. If she hasn’t gone through with it I don’t want to draw a lot of attention onto her, but if she has I feel like I want to at least acknowledge somewhere that her plight’s been seen, you know?
Otherwise, yeah I’m fine. I’m mostly just tired. I need to get on a better sleep schedule, hoping the hiatus helps with that.
Not sure if I understand right, but “lettercol” means the comic comments right? Yeah I’m fine with that, too. Mostly I’m just becoming irritated with pissing matches breaking out over differences of opinion. I really don’t want to be the “iron fist” kind of admin, but it’s becoming a little bit more apparent day-by-day that I may be TOO permissive. It’s.. well, irritating but manageable is the best I have to describe my side of it.
Thank you for the concern, I really appreciate it. 🙂
I apologize for my part in it. I tend to enjoy a brisk argument a little too much at times. So if I made anyone upset, then I am sorry.
As for Springpop. I happened across her message about half an hour after she made it. I found myself starring at the wall for a while after. *Shakes head* I pray she decided to think things through or she failed and now, or soon sees the support. I want to grab her, let her talk and then show that she is not alone and is stronger than this.
We all face such moments. Depression is a common war. Hell, I fight it every day. It’s harder when your family does not have your back. Please people, if the dark seems insurmountable. If the mountain is too heavy to carry alone. Please call the local suicide hotline. You do NOT need to be alone.
I got pulled into it too, don’t worry about it.
And yes, I hope anyone reading this who needs it knows that there are resources out there to help you if you are in need. No body has to deal with suicide alone.
If anybody does get in touch with her personally, reiterate the offer to find someone she could stay with. I meant it about the Markiplites (Markiplier fanbase): He’s been encouraging his community to reach out to those in need, and there’s already ten million subscribers and who knows how many other people who enjoy his videos but don’t subscribe. Wherever SpringPop happens to be, almost certainly there are Markiplites in the area.
Mark’s close friend and roommate recently took his own life. That gives us all the more reason to reach out and try to stop others from treading that path. I’ve been reaching out to those on YouTube who are depressed (even as young as fifth grade) and trying to give them what help I can, even if it’s nothing more than a caring ear to listen to them. If each person in the community steps in wherever they can see to help, it can really make a difference. I hope in this case it’s not too late 🙁
When you started the webcomic, didn’t know you were signing up to be camp counselor, didja.
With “lettercol” I reveal my age. (Yep, = comments.) I once won a Marvel No-Prize, back in the day.
And I show MY age, for I know to what you refer. Marvel No-Prizes… Yeah… Thems the days.
ATTENTION SPRINGPOP, just in case:
Some further thoughts for your consideration:
Right now you are in shock. You are in shock because your shockingly reprehensible mother has behaved shockingly. Of course you are in shock; how could you not be? It would be weird if you were *not* in shock.
But nonetheless I would like to suggest that you turn your stunned, shocked gaze away from your idiot mother, and focus instead upon that large globule of slime, your uncle. Just how happy do you want to make him? DO YOU REALLY WANT TO HAND HIM SUCH A TREMENDOUS VICTORY? That thing is going to be snickering all the way to the funeral. Wow, what a load of fun that will be for your sister. Picture it: whenever your mother isn’t looking, he’s going to be letting your sister know how entertaining he finds her grief. You CANNOT let her go through that.
Slightly over 24 hours ago, as I write this, your sister saw someone stand up for her. She saw someone be brave for her. It may well have been the first time she experienced anything like that. But…then…that same person just…turns around and goes away? No no no no, you cannot let her go through that, either.
Take Kilyle’s advice. Take GallowsNoose’s advice. Also try this: Call the National Domestic Violence Hotline, or google it, from a safe place, like a library. 1-800-799-SAFE (7233) http://www.thehotline.org/help/
They can advise you about the best way you can extricate yourself from your immediate situation. You tell them your circumstances, and then they bring all their considerable expertise to bear onto the pragmatics of getting you the hell out of there. (And you have to do that first, before you can help your sister and niece. You can’t provide them sanctuary until you *have* a sanctuary to provide; so getting yourself to sanctuary is your top priority for right now.)
That’s for the short term.
For the long term, there’s good news and bad news. The bad news is really bad: Some total strangers, whom you have never met and most likely never will, who are nothing to you but pixels on the screen, care more about you than your own mother does. Isn’t that awful? (I’m not worried that will bring you further down, since you were already well aware of your idiot mother’s shocking reprehensibility.)
But here’s the good news: Some total strangers, whom you have never met and most likely never will, who are nothing to you but pixels on the screen, CARE ABOUT YOU. What that boils down to is that you belong to what is actually a pretty interesting species. You should stick around and explore the implications of that.
The detail I keep focusing on is… we don’t even know where SpringPop lives. We have zero details whereby to locate her family. I hope she didn’t go through with her plans, and that she gets some local help — a place to stay for the short term, help finding a more long-term solution — in part because I can’t see any other way for her sister and niece to get the help THEY need.
The police, and court system, are going to need to be involved at some point. I hope that’s before the niece gets abused, and not after.
I’m really conflicted on if it’s a good idea to do this, but…
Visalia, California, USA. That’s what her IP address pulls up when I look it up.
I’m really sorry to post personal information like this, but it’s a unique situation.
I sent out as much of a call for help as I can manage. If someone near Visalia sees it, maybe they’ll be able to mobilize more local help.
My dad’s been wondering if we should actually file a police report. The abuse stuff is hearsay, but maybe CPS could take a look at the family?
You know, I keep a folder of somewhere between 50-100 webcomic bookmarks. Keeping up with all of them daily would consume more time than I want to set aside for them, so often it’s days or even weeks before I catch some of them up. I don’t hate having a few updates worth of my favourites to catch up with at a time.
That being said, as I work my way down my lists, there’s a special delight when I get to Selkie, and I realize it’s been long enough for there to have been an update! Selkie is special enough to stand out among the 100s of other webcomics. Pinning down exactly what it is about it that makes it so engaging would be challenging, but ultimately unnecessary.
I love this comic and eagerly await its every update! Keep it up Dave! ^_^/
Thanks!
I’m an archive binge type. I hate waiting for updates and prefer to let a bunch of them build up over time. There are only a handful of comics at any one time that I keep updated on as often as their update schedule. The comics I’m invested in enough to do that change now and then.
Selkie’s been on that short list for months. Right now, the others are Leftover Soup, El Goonish Shive, and Freefall.
That’s not counting those that update in a slower or more sporadic fashion, where I keep hopping back to see if there’s anything up — right now that list includes Goblins, Lackadaisy, Order of the Stick, Erfworld, Vattu, PS238, and Doomsday, My Dear. (It’s possible some of these have a standard update schedule I just haven’t spotted yet.)
I’m glad there are some I can generally count on for updates, because there are enough sporadic updaters to make it hard for me to keep my patience.
Ancestry.com ad at the top of this page… On the page about a DNA test as well…