Since we’ve seen the actual mother before, I’m willing to put money on this use of daughter as the clan member option here (I’ll put all the money on it!)
I mean, some (if not all…I’m forgetting at the moment) of the clan names straight up translate to “sons & daughters of X” so I’d figure non-familial reference to one as son or daughter would just be a more formal title for the youngster, and not actually have anything to do with direct blood (save for the shared clan, which probably leads to SOME shared blood some number of generations back)
Could also be because she’s the leader of their clan at the settlement, and maybe every member of the clan, regardless of age, is a son or daughter to her (even if they’re older)
Either way, we’re about to get some interesting reports on all of the happenings we’ve seen over the course of the story (adoption, bullies, illness and everything else that’s happened that they know about)
I don’t think Then will go into that much detail. A lot is classified. And I really hope this leader guy doesn’t try to take Selkie from Todd. Gien’s been raising red flags for me since he showed up yelling at Scar.
“Classified” might not mean much in this context. A big part of that classification is to keep the sarnothi secret from the humans. But these *are* sarnothi, they already know.
That, and Then could reasonably have stronger ties to his clan than to the human government, and just disregard classification and tell the truth plainly. We don’t have a thorough understanding of his motivations or allegiances.
White Rice, I’m not saying you’re wrong, but I think you’ve missed something. Gien there is male, not female, so even though we know her mother, he _could_ still be the bio-father 🙂
Yeah, I realized it after the fact, but since everyone’s always talking about Selkie’s mom (Selkie included) my thought process just ran with it. I also completely missed the “gentlemen” when I first posted, and I don’t think Gien was ever referred to by gender before, so I made some assumptions in that regard (well, an assumption)
All that aside, I’m pretty sure Gien isn’t bio-daddy, if only because with the way Selkie came to land/the orphanage leads me to think there are a few possibilities regarding daddy: he’s dead, he’s inprisioned, he’s part of the opposing side of the conflict, he’s the leader of the opposing side, or he just ran away (but to where?). I know those cover most bases, but the opposing side one really feels right to me, if only because it would explain why Selkie was taken away from the conflict, where she couldn’t be easily tracked down without raising suspicion/without the Feds finding out she’s being looked for.
definitely daughter of the clan – he was introduced as some kind of leader of the exiled jin sorai so it makes sense that he feels responsible, perhaps even slightly guilty for letting her be raised among strangers that may or may not be kind to her. that he comes across as a bit of a dick sometimes is probably due to his worries, and plain difficulty to talk in a foreign language to someone of a foreign culture – misunderstandings are prone to happen.
That’s the problem with him imo, he might feel responsible but he’s not – Todd is her legal caretaker with full rights while he has none, same clan or not. I think this is a bit of a culture clash in how things work in sarnoth vs the US though.
The one has very little to do with the other. Legal rights and moral responsibilities are just different things.
It’s rather likely that both Todd and Gien are responsible for Selkie; one as a clan leader and one as her father. I’d actually go so far as to say we can know this as a fact.
in traditional formal clan structures, it is not unheard of for the clan leader to be treated as a third parent. something that would only come up when the parents disagreed normally.
That’s what I mean, we don’t really recognize “clan” as mattering in these things while it obviously does in sarnoth.
Like if I adopted a Chinese kid and my Chinese neightbour began butting in about how I should raise them and acted like their shared ancestry should give him a say… I’d be annoyed and creeped out.
Also the fact that he doesn’t use either her Sarnothi name or her name above water. It is giving me the impression that he is interested in her more as an asset than a person.
Although I do think that the ‘Daughter of the Clan’ interpretation is likely the correct one, I also wonder if you might be on to something there – Gien *does* have very similar eye markings to Plo Quar now that I look more closely. To be honest I really don’t think he’s Selkie’s bio-dad mainly because the way he’s drawn (gray hair, lines on the face that remind of wrinkles) gives me the impression that he’s supposed to be a fair bit older than the other adult sarnothi that we’ve met so far. If he were directly related at all to her then I’d be more inclined to say grandpa, possibly on her bio-dad’s side rather than Plo Quar’s. But he could also be a more distant relative than even that.
Of course maybe there are only so many variations on markings that exist and it all just happens to be coincidence…but Dave has left enough hints and clues throughout the story (like the several hints about Todd and Amanda’s connection) that I’m not entirely inclined to believe in coincidences 🙂
And Gien scores some points again in my book. Unless I’m reading too deeply into this (something I’m guilty of doing sometimes), Gien is trying to make sure she’s safe, because who/whatever she really is makes her a target and somehow her alliance/adoption with/by humans makes her politically untouchable.
I mean yeah, I remember her mother is the Boogeyman for the Sar’teri but I think there’s something more to Selkie than has been explicitly stated.
I know. selkie’s memory of being left on shore implied that her mom is the one that turned her over.
perhaps technically as the clan leader he could have forbidden selkie’s mom to do that?
there is also the issue of just how willing are the sarnothi still to go to war with the “surface”? he may not be referring to allowed in the sense of the actual transfer of selkie to the adoption center but allowing the situation to remain in place after the fact. we have seen that the sarnothi have some invisibility type gadgets and such that would imply that it would be possible for them to by force take selkie back home. of course doing so would shatter any working relationship with the surface probably.
I think that despite their advanced technology, if it actually came to open conflict sarnoth is screwed, seeing humans could literally just dump nukes/poison/heavy rocks or whatever on them from above.
This is pretty on the mark. I think I can say this without it being too spoilery, but part of the reason Sarnoth’s leadership prefers to maintain secrecy is that they know better than to think their technology will be advantageous enough to win out over vastly superior numbers should an open conflict break out.
Scar’s tale of her mother really seemed to me it was their first encounter. I doubt they really knew or interacted with each other beforehand, let alone enough to conceive a child.
And, I’m pretty sure Selkie was actually born before the war broke out… Selkie is 8, Bennie is about 13, so when she was surrendered to the orphanage he would be about the age she is now. The flashback scene where he’s a child doesn’t give us a good idea of age, but him and his (I’m assuming younger) sister appear to be at least 5-8. So, the war probably started sometime between her birth and her third year.
Also, Selkie looks absolutely nothing like Scar. I suppose it is theoretically possible… maybe Sarnothi skin pigment genes are kind of like cat colouring? Like, if you cross a tabby with a spotted cat, the babies are one or the other, not spotted tabbies. So… yeah, *maybe*. But… I have my doubts.
what I find kind of curious is that *NO ONE* has ever in the comic asked or talked about selkie’s dad. you would think that at least selkie at some point would ask about the obvious other half of the family she is missing. really she has never asked about any other family relations that I can think of.
there is two highly likely cases.
one, dad is just gone. either never was around for some reason (could be a cultural thing, doesn’t have to be a pure absentee father case) and mom was all that ever really was as far as sarnothi culture views it. or dad has died during the wars or even from some other natural cause. any would explain the adults not bringing him up, but doesn’t explain why selkie herself never asks about it.
two, dad is the reason selkie was sent to the surface. she has been sent as far away as possible to avoid selkie and dad having contact possibly. this could lead down several paths. it could be related to the “echo” nature of selkie or it could be that it would lead to a further rift within sarnothi culture beyond what has already happened in recent years somehow.
honestly did we ever get told exactly why selkie’s mom gave her to a “surface” adoption center? yes mom needs to go into hiding so a kid a big problem, but it should be possible to hide a sarnothi child in any sarnohti settlement if the child is not truly publicly known beyond basically a name. so why go to the process of having selkie grow up on the surface? it was a bit of an accident that she has learned anything of her culture really. kind of wonder when it was really planned to tell her the truth had todd not ran into pohl?
I figured it was to hide her daughter in order to prevent Selkie being used as a hostage against her mother. Especially if these stories are true, it sounds as though her mom was quite a force to be reckoned with.
And Selkie will be quite the force to be reckoned with. Todd is teaching her to be a fighter, not with tooth & claw or guns & blades but rather with words & ideas.
There may be a different name or they may not stand as much on that type of ceremony. After all, Dr. is a title here, but herbalist, midwife, nurse practitioner, etc are not as much. Also, all 3 are eye-level with each other, no one squatting lower, so perhaps it’s a sign of equals and not deffering to each other?
So is this use of daughter as in ‘part of my clan and therefore my responsibility as all littles are’, or daughter as in biological?
Since we’ve seen the actual mother before, I’m willing to put money on this use of daughter as the clan member option here (I’ll put all the money on it!)
I mean, some (if not all…I’m forgetting at the moment) of the clan names straight up translate to “sons & daughters of X” so I’d figure non-familial reference to one as son or daughter would just be a more formal title for the youngster, and not actually have anything to do with direct blood (save for the shared clan, which probably leads to SOME shared blood some number of generations back)
Could also be because she’s the leader of their clan at the settlement, and maybe every member of the clan, regardless of age, is a son or daughter to her (even if they’re older)
Either way, we’re about to get some interesting reports on all of the happenings we’ve seen over the course of the story (adoption, bullies, illness and everything else that’s happened that they know about)
I don’t think Then will go into that much detail. A lot is classified. And I really hope this leader guy doesn’t try to take Selkie from Todd. Gien’s been raising red flags for me since he showed up yelling at Scar.
“Classified” might not mean much in this context. A big part of that classification is to keep the sarnothi secret from the humans. But these *are* sarnothi, they already know.
That, and Then could reasonably have stronger ties to his clan than to the human government, and just disregard classification and tell the truth plainly. We don’t have a thorough understanding of his motivations or allegiances.
White Rice, I’m not saying you’re wrong, but I think you’ve missed something. Gien there is male, not female, so even though we know her mother, he _could_ still be the bio-father 🙂
Yeah, I realized it after the fact, but since everyone’s always talking about Selkie’s mom (Selkie included) my thought process just ran with it. I also completely missed the “gentlemen” when I first posted, and I don’t think Gien was ever referred to by gender before, so I made some assumptions in that regard (well, an assumption)
All that aside, I’m pretty sure Gien isn’t bio-daddy, if only because with the way Selkie came to land/the orphanage leads me to think there are a few possibilities regarding daddy: he’s dead, he’s inprisioned, he’s part of the opposing side of the conflict, he’s the leader of the opposing side, or he just ran away (but to where?). I know those cover most bases, but the opposing side one really feels right to me, if only because it would explain why Selkie was taken away from the conflict, where she couldn’t be easily tracked down without raising suspicion/without the Feds finding out she’s being looked for.
Suspense!
The fact that “Daughter” is capitalized here in the Tensei->English translation tells me that it’s the former. A Child of the Clan.
The later would explain his entitlement and put his dickishness in a completely different might for sure.
definitely daughter of the clan – he was introduced as some kind of leader of the exiled jin sorai so it makes sense that he feels responsible, perhaps even slightly guilty for letting her be raised among strangers that may or may not be kind to her. that he comes across as a bit of a dick sometimes is probably due to his worries, and plain difficulty to talk in a foreign language to someone of a foreign culture – misunderstandings are prone to happen.
That’s the problem with him imo, he might feel responsible but he’s not – Todd is her legal caretaker with full rights while he has none, same clan or not. I think this is a bit of a culture clash in how things work in sarnoth vs the US though.
The one has very little to do with the other. Legal rights and moral responsibilities are just different things.
It’s rather likely that both Todd and Gien are responsible for Selkie; one as a clan leader and one as her father. I’d actually go so far as to say we can know this as a fact.
in traditional formal clan structures, it is not unheard of for the clan leader to be treated as a third parent. something that would only come up when the parents disagreed normally.
That’s what I mean, we don’t really recognize “clan” as mattering in these things while it obviously does in sarnoth.
Like if I adopted a Chinese kid and my Chinese neightbour began butting in about how I should raise them and acted like their shared ancestry should give him a say… I’d be annoyed and creeped out.
the fact that Daughter is capitalized makes me lean towards clan daughter and not biological daughter
Also the fact that he doesn’t use either her Sarnothi name or her name above water. It is giving me the impression that he is interested in her more as an asset than a person.
My thoughts… his markings are very similar to Selkie’s mother’s…. perhaps he’s related somehow biologically? Even if not the father.
Although I do think that the ‘Daughter of the Clan’ interpretation is likely the correct one, I also wonder if you might be on to something there – Gien *does* have very similar eye markings to Plo Quar now that I look more closely. To be honest I really don’t think he’s Selkie’s bio-dad mainly because the way he’s drawn (gray hair, lines on the face that remind of wrinkles) gives me the impression that he’s supposed to be a fair bit older than the other adult sarnothi that we’ve met so far. If he were directly related at all to her then I’d be more inclined to say grandpa, possibly on her bio-dad’s side rather than Plo Quar’s. But he could also be a more distant relative than even that.
Of course maybe there are only so many variations on markings that exist and it all just happens to be coincidence…but Dave has left enough hints and clues throughout the story (like the several hints about Todd and Amanda’s connection) that I’m not entirely inclined to believe in coincidences 🙂
And Gien scores some points again in my book. Unless I’m reading too deeply into this (something I’m guilty of doing sometimes), Gien is trying to make sure she’s safe, because who/whatever she really is makes her a target and somehow her alliance/adoption with/by humans makes her politically untouchable.
I mean yeah, I remember her mother is the Boogeyman for the Sar’teri but I think there’s something more to Selkie than has been explicitly stated.
The fact that he allowed the adoption is interesting, implies he was in position to forbid it.
Yeeeeaaaaah, I caught that too and I’ve been wondering about it myself. Kinda suspicious in a way.
I know. selkie’s memory of being left on shore implied that her mom is the one that turned her over.
perhaps technically as the clan leader he could have forbidden selkie’s mom to do that?
there is also the issue of just how willing are the sarnothi still to go to war with the “surface”? he may not be referring to allowed in the sense of the actual transfer of selkie to the adoption center but allowing the situation to remain in place after the fact. we have seen that the sarnothi have some invisibility type gadgets and such that would imply that it would be possible for them to by force take selkie back home. of course doing so would shatter any working relationship with the surface probably.
I think that despite their advanced technology, if it actually came to open conflict sarnoth is screwed, seeing humans could literally just dump nukes/poison/heavy rocks or whatever on them from above.
This is pretty on the mark. I think I can say this without it being too spoilery, but part of the reason Sarnoth’s leadership prefers to maintain secrecy is that they know better than to think their technology will be advantageous enough to win out over vastly superior numbers should an open conflict break out.
@ Dave (since this comment won’t nest beyond Mikael’s): As Josef Stalin is supposed to have said: “Quantity has a quality all its own.”
Uncle, perhaps?
I’m more concerned about the term “true nature”!
Probably reffering to her being an “echo” like mom.
Might be an Uncle.
I still have a hunch that Scar is her father.
I doubt that is the case.
Scar’s tale of her mother really seemed to me it was their first encounter. I doubt they really knew or interacted with each other beforehand, let alone enough to conceive a child.
And, I’m pretty sure Selkie was actually born before the war broke out… Selkie is 8, Bennie is about 13, so when she was surrendered to the orphanage he would be about the age she is now. The flashback scene where he’s a child doesn’t give us a good idea of age, but him and his (I’m assuming younger) sister appear to be at least 5-8. So, the war probably started sometime between her birth and her third year.
Also, Selkie looks absolutely nothing like Scar. I suppose it is theoretically possible… maybe Sarnothi skin pigment genes are kind of like cat colouring? Like, if you cross a tabby with a spotted cat, the babies are one or the other, not spotted tabbies. So… yeah, *maybe*. But… I have my doubts.
Gien is her dad?! Omg! I’ll be honest, my money was on Scar. This definitely puts Gien’s behavior in a new light!
If Gien turns out to be Selkie’s birth father that is totally going to blow my mind ?????
what I find kind of curious is that *NO ONE* has ever in the comic asked or talked about selkie’s dad. you would think that at least selkie at some point would ask about the obvious other half of the family she is missing. really she has never asked about any other family relations that I can think of.
there is two highly likely cases.
one, dad is just gone. either never was around for some reason (could be a cultural thing, doesn’t have to be a pure absentee father case) and mom was all that ever really was as far as sarnothi culture views it. or dad has died during the wars or even from some other natural cause. any would explain the adults not bringing him up, but doesn’t explain why selkie herself never asks about it.
two, dad is the reason selkie was sent to the surface. she has been sent as far away as possible to avoid selkie and dad having contact possibly. this could lead down several paths. it could be related to the “echo” nature of selkie or it could be that it would lead to a further rift within sarnothi culture beyond what has already happened in recent years somehow.
honestly did we ever get told exactly why selkie’s mom gave her to a “surface” adoption center? yes mom needs to go into hiding so a kid a big problem, but it should be possible to hide a sarnothi child in any sarnohti settlement if the child is not truly publicly known beyond basically a name. so why go to the process of having selkie grow up on the surface? it was a bit of an accident that she has learned anything of her culture really. kind of wonder when it was really planned to tell her the truth had todd not ran into pohl?
I figured it was to hide her daughter in order to prevent Selkie being used as a hostage against her mother. Especially if these stories are true, it sounds as though her mom was quite a force to be reckoned with.
And Selkie will be quite the force to be reckoned with. Todd is teaching her to be a fighter, not with tooth & claw or guns & blades but rather with words & ideas.
Good to see this one has a sweet side (unlike Then)
Interesting. Not DOCTOR De’Madiea. I had presumed that Pohl was a healer under water as well.
There may be a different name or they may not stand as much on that type of ceremony. After all, Dr. is a title here, but herbalist, midwife, nurse practitioner, etc are not as much. Also, all 3 are eye-level with each other, no one squatting lower, so perhaps it’s a sign of equals and not deffering to each other?