Rude.
Minor change to Benny's appearance from his first showing in Avery's wallet photo is his cheek markings. I realized while drawing this that he's old enough that he should be developing facial marks by now. I'm rationalizing the discrepancy by the wallet photo being slightly outdated.
I like Benny. 😀
How much older than Selkie is he, has this been mentioned?
I don’t think Benny’s age has been mentioned yet. He does look to be in his pre-teens.
Also, I can’t say I’m surprised that Benny isn’t interested in hanging out with Selkie. Though, that’s no reason for him to be rude. >:/
Mhm, thinking if he might not be in teen territory already. I’m horrible at judging ages though.
I think he’s past puberty at least, he’s got his face-markings and I seem to recall it somewhere being mentioned that Selkie will get face markings during puberty.
Plus interest in women, that’s pretty much the point of puberty I think.
Interest in women begins earlier than the hormonal effects of puberty in many boys. I was volunteering in my 4th grader’s classroom and heard one boy bragging about how everyone tells him his mom is hot. 3 other boys who know his mother chimed in with “she sure is”. They are 9 and 10 years old. Our culture sensitizes children to sexuality at an early age here in the US.
He doesn’t have full facial markings yet. He’s still developing them. I’d say the beginning of puberty so 11-13. Past puberty would be considered 17 or older as puberty is generally considered to encompass the years of 12-16 for boys.
Huh. Benny speaks without the “accent”.
Presumably he’s had much more time on the surface and less underwater, relatively speaking.
He’s certainly integrated well, though – aside from the skin color and webbed claws, he’s virtually indistinguishable from any number of shitty teenaged boys immersed in the worst of misogynistic gamer culture.
heh heh! While I can’t argue with you… I am thankful my two (17 and 13) are somewhat feminists.
Not to doubt you Katrina but I have yet to know the teenage boy that doesn’t act sexist when they are alone with other male friends around the same age.
Plus side, if the seem otherwise in your view it means they know how to separate behavior depending on circumstances, which is an essential trait for maturity and being an adult.
Kudos
For what it’s worth, I’ve never acted that way around male friends throughout my teenage years, since I was always taught not to make disparaging remarks about anybody’s body type, male or female. Although I have seen MANY male friends make such comments about women, so I understand that I’m in the minority here.
“when they are alone with other male friends around the same age”
If they are alone, how do you know how they act? All of them?
Sounds to me like your taking a few bad apples and applying broad strokes well beyond that.
Oh lord, here we go
“misogynistic gamer culture.”
you are misrepresenting gamer culture for what tumblr says, and are wrong, please refrain from naming something misogynistic if you don’t have a clear example and proof of what you are saying I am a gamer, and I find your claim to be wrong and offensive to gamers
thank you for your time
I’m assuming she’s using “misogynistic” as a modifier. That is, distinguishing misogynistic gamer culture from regular gamer culture.
considering any type of GAME misogynistic is wrong because it’s clearly a work of “art” and is not offending any kind of real living person
if a videogame character gets up a hits a woman because she didn’t made dinner, yes, that videogame is misoginystic, and the context needs to be reviewed to know if the story is condemning the act or gorifying it, in context, no artistic work uses misoginy to glorify it
a videogame, being an artistic representation of cartoonish and unrealistic standards, can’t be by definition misogynistic unless proven otherwise
and I take offense that people view my hobby as anti-feminist when we don’t even care about social issues, it’s just how I unwind after work
Man, art doesn’t exist in a vacuum, though. Plenty of art can be sexist or racist or what have you by promoting a certain worldview or even if not actively condemning something negative, portraying it as normal. If there were a wider variety of female body types in games, for instance, the few that were busty and/or scantily clad wouldn’t be such a big deal. The prevalence of fanservicey women portrays that as “normal”, that women should be sexy and there to please. The fact that so many female characters are damsels and/or lack dimension as compared to male characters doesn’t help.
Anyway, if you don’t care about social issues, why care if any of gamer culture is anti-feminist? Personally, I say care about both, but that sounds like some cognitive dissonance right there.
Even if the game isn’t misogynistic, the people playing it certainly can be. I used to raid in World of Warcraft, and the constant references to player kills or killing a raid boss as (synonym for illegal, violent, and unconsensually violating) them was really disturbing.
I also occasionally ran into people who said things that were flat-out misogynistic. One guy told me to “go in the kitchen and make me a sandwich.” I replied, “the only woman who will ever make you a sandwich without charging for it is your Mom!”
Benny’s references to “Jailbait and Princess D-Cup” are troubling.
Those being such common nasty nicknames for the characters in question does suggest strongly that that game actively encourages people who play to become more misogynistic and to be insensitive.
of course people are misogynistic!, but you know what’s the key word “people”
as much as there are racist people, offensive people, misogynistic people, it’s not a trait that you can label in a specific medium like “gamers” or “white straight” people, its “people” in general
this is a “teen” that’s caught in the politically offensive circle of his “teen” friends, that’s where the “criteria” of the parents need to come, name it being immature or whatever, but don’t set offensive labels to a hobby plenty of people that will take offense over being called something they are not.
And people make games…which can be misogynistic. Just like books can be racist or songs can be homophobic. There is meaning being conveyed, intentional and unintentional, and you can’t make that go away simply by ignoring it.
A game can be anywhere on the spectrum from completely misogynistic to completely not. A person can too. If you want to fall closer on to the “not” end of said line I recommend not making factually and logically incorrect arguments to try and defend misogynistic content and it’s creators.
nope, sorry, as I said there is nuance and criteria for all this things, you are buildning a strawman from what profesionally ofended people say on tumbler, there is NO single work that can be deemed “mysoginistic for the sake of being mysoginistic” not one video game is made to “offend” people or “hurt” women or “validate” actions
it’s made to “entertain” people, and “live fantasies”, if the fantasy is bad, it’s STILL a fantasy, being a mysoginistic person means you TREAT women badly, in this artistic interpretations there is no real living person being portrayed, it’s all “make believe”
Bah, he’s a soon to be teen that thinks he knows it all. What people commonly call “misogyny in gaming” is idiot teens that think they know it all mixed with a fight for the body with hormones. Thank the gods I never did that myself but the women that took care of raising me were badass women.
Jerks are jerks and will act the part, no matter the hobby.
thank you, this is exactly my main point, you cant label misogynistic to a work of art that is up for interpretation
it all comes down to nuance and criteria
I hate the misogyny excuse people use with gaming. So we’re definently on the same side there. Oh there are some misogynistic gamers out there certainly. But like you said, nuance and criteria.
As for me, and to have a little fun with the whole thing: I have never tried the make me a sandwich thing, especially with my friends that are ladies. Since they know I like cooking, they’d tell me to make them a sandwich instead and I would come back half an hour with a hot sammich for them. So it would ultimately backfire for me.
I’m a he, thank you. Guys – especially ones that have had time to grow up and reflect on how thoughtlessly sexist we were when we were younger and stupider – are perfectly capable of being annoyed by the state of the majority of ‘mainstream’ gaming.
Most of it is a throwback to when Japan dominated the gaming scene. Theirs is an intensely sexist society. If you see a game with absurd T&A in it, odds are it came from Japan. However, Japan has become fairly small these days in the gamer world. Far fewer major titles originate from there as compared to 15 years ago. Their development community has become more insular, focusing heavily on the local Japanese consumer. Those products don’t translate well beyond their borders.
It’s no surprise the above title is Fire Emblem. You unlikely will see a Western developed title pull that stunt and, if it wasn’t for the game’s old pedigree, a new franchise would fall flat. Newer games that have people behaving in that manner are cast as villains or otherwise had people.
oh look a post assuming gamers are all “shitty” people i suppose i should stop volunteering and start being horrid to people, maybe even start believing a whole group of people are all the same, sarcasm btw
im sure your a nice person but your post came across just as nastily as the horrid “13 yo gamer” sterotypes try to be more open minded in future, thanks
Hi, I’m a gamer myself. And there are several online games I actively have to turn off public chat channels if I want any chance at enjoying them because the general toxicity is enough to devastate entire ecosystems.
I’m sure you’re a perfectly nice person yourself, but please don’t pretend I’m not talking about something that exists and is an acute problem here.
The argument is that those shitty gamers are a (very!) vocal minority.
Three thumbs up. Benny is a little misogynist in the making, isn’t he. Too bad Avery hasn’t tried to curb him of that already.
It happens with bilingual children a lot. They learn more conversational English from other kids while their minds are still adaptable
This is true. It’s interesting, though, that Selkie hasn’t adapted in that way, despite having lived entirely among humans from a very young age.
I don’t know his age but as a parent, I would confenscate the power cord and extra battery packs for all gaming systems if my sons ever referred to someone as “Princess D-cups” unless that was a stage name. Then slowly watch as the power died. And use that for analogy of how such careless cruelties can destroy a persons sense of self until there’s nothing left but a powerless husk because with nothing positive left, why go on? If he has the gall to say it at home, what’s he saying in public? Yeah, that may be tough but I’d rather be age-appropriate honest and raise kids that value and give kindness. At a minimum he’d be in voluntold chore mode for a week just for that tone. Everyone parents differently though and maybe that’s okay in sarnathoi culture. (Voluntold- hey by catching attention for messing up, you just volunteered for the tedious, tiring, annoying jobs that need doing, lucky you.)
What’s wrong with what he said? Looks like he’s playing fire emblem and referring to Camilla: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Avr0o2xv358 (slightly NSFW :p).
If he said that about a real person then yea he should be corrected, here he is just calling out blatant fan service in an anime game.
http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/966/500/28d.gif
The fact that he said it.
Also, given he’s a teen and the tone he likely said it in, as well as the context in which it was said, I HIGHLY doubt calling out the fanservice.
Yea I’m not getting whats wrong with calling a fictional big titted anime princess blatantly created to be fan service princess d cups.
I thought Vixandra might be thinking he’s reffering to an actual person which would naturally be something else.
Fanservice-y game characters or not, Jailbait and Princess D Cups is very objectifying language and that’s troubling for a kid (10-12? 15?) to use. He’s reduced them in terms of how they’re sexually attractive, rather than by name. He may not be encountering a lot of busty girls right now, but his friends are all under 18, does he think it’s OK to call them Jailbait? He’s got to learn somewhere to respect women, whatever they look like.
I will admit, if we knew the character better, we might know if he’s sarcastic and sick of the fanservice, but right now we know nothing so the statement is troubling.
Avery is a legit guy, I imagine he’ll nip all that in the bud as Benny gets through his teenage years. Every teenager is a shithead for a while.
Also to be fair, I’d call her Princess D-Cups too.
Yeah, I’m sure Avery will take care of it. Teenagers being teenagers isn’t an excuse, though.
And not knowing you, I wouldn’t know if you were sincere.
The game literaly lets you marry (and have a child with) characters who look and act like they are 12 (who’s also your adopted sister), hence jailbait. The titty princes is a blatant sex object, her actuall intro is a 3d cutscene of shaking them at the screen.
Maybe a better argument would be that he shouldn’t be playing these kind of games or that the devs should not have designed them that way.
Why do you think fictional characters should be treated with respect as if they were real people?
Let me put it this way, hearing a kid I know little about say that about game characters I know very little about is troubling. He sounds like creeps that harassed me and my friends when I was a pre-teen and teenager.
I do think kids need to practice respect with fictional characters to be ready for life. They may continue to treat some folks like fictional characters if they’re not mature enough to distinguish between mocking a character for being fanservicey and mocking a real person for looking similarly. Like con creeps who treat women dressed as sexy fictional characters like sexy fictional characters. That is, not as real people.
Regarding the game design/should a minor be playing that game at all, that does seem like a good point. It doesn’t seem kid appropriate.
Sorry you had that experience but I think most kids that age can distinquish reality from fiction. Like just because I enjoy making cute critters beat the crap of each other in pokemon does not mean I would also enjoy real life cock or dog fights.
Oh definitely, that’s why you teach your kids CRITERIA, in the first place, they need to realize what is real and what isn’t, I see this as a healthy separation of reality (although I would still ask him to tone down the sexually aggressiveness in his comment)
the objectifying comment doesn’t really fly because the video game characters are… objects, not real people with real feelings.
True, but without much life experience, sometimes that distinction can lack nuance. Like a kid that gets a hold of a smutty magazine will understand the lady pictured is real, but not that she’s essentially playing a role. Let him absorb a lot of that kind of media and it will inform him of how women are supposed to behave for men.
The key is maturity, which is why I’ve mostly been arguing against the language Benny used, as it doesn’t show maturity. I’d be a hypocrite to say he shouldn’t play a mature game, considering I grew up with Diablo and Diablo 2 and used to run over my brother in Halo. But it was pretty conditional on us showing the maturity to handle violent games. The kind of language we used was an indicator and I remember getting a warning because we went overboard when talking about something (I forget what exactly, but we were talking about killing people).
“Let him absorb a lot of that kind of media and it will inform him of how women are supposed to behave for men.”
I don’t entirely agree with this, violent games, sexist games, they are games made for any kind of audience, it’s true that a violent game will attract violent people, but that doesn’t immediately sets the label “violent people” to all people because they enjoy those games
criteria and nuance, you said it, I agree with that, and a teen can be a bit of an edgelord tbh, here is where the education comes in
I have a very high sex drive, I love sex in all it’s forms and ways of being portrayed, but I don’t “expect” women to act like I fantasize, I grew up with anime and video games, hell I love Visual Novels
does that immediately makes me see every women I interact with as sexual objects? no, of course not, I know how to separate fantasy from reality, I’ve played VN since I was 12… yes my parent’s aren’t technologically inclined, and I may be a bit of a freak in the privacy of my own bedroom, but I don’t objectify women, I know whats real and what’s not.
And to clarify, I don’t think everyone who is surrounded by a lot of sexist or violent media will become terribly sexist or violent. But not everyone is mature enough to handle those signals and reject encouragement toward negative behavior.
Because children learn behavior in one area that they use in other areas? Because learning to model good behavior is important? Because it’s a good opportunity to teach him how to treat women (and people in general) with respect?
Just because the game developers behaved in a certain way doesn’t let him (or anyone else for that matter) off the hook in how they behave as well.
And yes I get that there is a difference between fictional characters and real people, but again, he’s a child. It’s a teachable moment.
As I see it, the problem isn’t so much being disrespectful of the fictional characters as being disrespectful of a real person. “If I wanted to hang out with some kid, I’d be grinding relationship points with the jailbait” very clearly equates Selkie with jailbait. Knowing the difference between “real” and “fantasy” people doesn’t matter one bit if you’re not prepared to act on that difference. So by saying hanging out with Selkie is the same as grinding points with the jailbait in the game, he’s WAY out of line. Yes, bratty teenagers will be bratty teenagers. But the corollary to that is (or should be) “adults will be adults”, and call a halt to bratty behavior until the “bratty teenagers” become “nice young people”.
Basically, if he’s going to be playing a mature game, he should behave maturely.
Ironically it’s actual adults who tend to be much, much worse. :p
Rated I for immature.
To be fair, pretty much every character in that game gets similar nicknames–whether guy or girl–by the fanbase. Some of them are relatively benign–“Not-Tharja,” “Bowzu,” “Lobster Bro,” “Dancina/Ninian,” “Taco-Meat” (aka Pineapple), “Weedoriko”–and others are…well…not: “Sky Milf,” Charlotte the Harlot,” “Gaston”
you would be surprised what ppl make an issue of these days…
Because you are trying to teach a kid how to talk properly, whether it is or is not a game. You do not say such things in polite company. Keep in mind we are adults… most of us… and understand humor and situation much more than kids who need to be taught proper vs improper.
S-Supporting Camilla made me fee like I needed a shower. XD
Lucky you, on my last game I choose Scarlet… 🙁
Yeaaah, inappropriate, Camille is CLEARLY DD-cup! >_<
She’s way bigger than that. Cup sizes are a lot smaller than most people think. Just fyi
it’s pretty funny that you take umbrage at “princess D-cups” and not “jailbait”, lol.
That’s unfortunately also a spot on description of some fire emblem characters. While the games are fun, they are also very much anime.
Even when raising her voice to her son for being rude Carrie speaks in small print and with a stutter. I get the feeling she’s emotionally scarred.
Stutters aren’t really an indication of any mental scarring. Anytime you happen to have a bout of really morbid curiosity, look up “The Monster Study”. It rather strongly proved that stuttering isn’t an emotional issue….
Didn’t read it as a stutter, myself. Just hesitance. I had a friend years back with TS and a profound stutter, so this doesn’t seem like much.
If it was just the stutter I would agree with you but there are other clues here. Remember how Agent Brown said they were refugees and asked for understanding? Note how the print in her speech bubbles is smaller than those of either her son’s or Avery’s (a writer’s way of showing a quiet voice)? And how her eyes were downcasted in the last page?
Ah, so Benny has been pretty well assimilated. I’m guessing 10-12 and a complete shithead, just like MOST 10-12 year olds.
They grow out of it eventually, but things generally get worse before they get better.
Really though, I figured most of us could relate to not wanting to be stuck on a playdate with a younger kid as a teen.
When I was this age we were luckily in agreement, I’ll be friendly and polite to guests of course but not expected to babysit or provide entertainment – that’s the adult hosts job.
yeah parents in general appreciated how I didn’t fit this mold. I was happy to spent time with the kids, they’re nice, not judgmental (to people older than them anyway), fun is such a simple thing for them. I usually got supervise the kids duty whenever there was a church play going on or something. I just drew pictures with them! It’s easy.
Of course Benny and I have opposite tastes, so that’s not surprising.
yeah, parents in general appreciated how I didn’t fit this mold. I was happy to spend time with the kids. Fun is such a simple thing for them. I usually got supervise-the-kids duty whenever there was a church play going on or something. I just drew pictures with them! It’s easy. Of course Benny and I have opposite tastes, so that’s not surprising.
Tssk, tsk, tsk… Where on earth keep your manners, kid?! xD
I can’t help but picture Carrie speaking in a Fluttershy kind of timid voice.
That theory would be even greater if Carrie can turn into a raging inferno of righteous fury when fully provoked 😉
Or Mouse from Police Academy.
Heck yea! She was my favorite character in the original ones.
ok, that boy is clearly in the ‘bratty’ stage of teenagerhood…still i´m sure selkie could surprise him. she is *very* cheeky and can be devious, enough so to earn a grudging ‘rather ok…for a girl’.
I think he’s at the age where it’s no longer okay for his mom to try pick friends for him so his annoyance to me feels justified.
Like he hasn’t objected to his parents having the Smiths over for a visit, just at the expectation/implication that he would be stuck hanging with Selkie.
Yo I like this kid a lot. Make him the new main character instead of xD randum Selkie
I don’t know, I find Benny a bit too rude for my tastes. I get that he doesn’t want to be hanging out with an eight year old, but come on kid, there’s no need to be like that.
I wonder if the Avery has introduced his family to Phol yet. It would make sense if he did since Phol is a doctor.
I hurt for Carrie. I would like for her to eventually learn to use Mari as a role model.
HA. Carrie’s got the bear slippers too!!
That’s what I was noticing. I was just like “Hey look at that! I bet that’s something they can bond over.”
Attention all shippers: The S.S. SelkieXBennie will be departing shortly. Please have your boarding passes ready. Refreshments will be served on the main deck. Thank you, and enjoy the voyage!
attention all shippers: the S.S. SelkieXBennie is going down in flames, hurry to the lifeboats or you will drown.
That won’t discourage anyone. I’ve noticed shippers love flames, and tend to use them as proof that they’re RIGHT!!!! They just say, “Oh, ten years from now after they’ve realized that they’re life-mates, they’ll look back on how they first met and it will be so funny!”
I don’t know what Dave has in mind for the long-term future of this relationship, but it does look, initially, like one that’s fated to develop in the direction of romance. Not now, they’re both too young. But shippers are never discouraged by that.
Sounds to me like Benny should NOT be allowed to own a Nintendo. If I heard my kids using that language, I’d have them in a confessional faster than you can spin a nickel.
If I heard my kids using those words I’d toss them a thesaurus and tell them to get creative.
I’m sorry to hear that. I’ll pray for them.
Why? They’re rhetorical and aside from the views others tagged onto it, Benny hasn’t really said anything too bad just cliche.
Well. I think someone needs his gamekid taken until he learns to be nicer. (that might be forever. XD)
I love you all! 🙂
Look what just happened: The Selkie commentariat had a measured, well-balanced discussion about the culture of online gaming, and everyone was polite and respectful. I am confirmed in my opinion that Dave attracts the best commenters. 😉
That little square above is supposed to be a grinning smiley (a grinney?)
Back on topic, while I was in junior high, a little older than Benny but not by much, two things happened: (1) all my previously-demonstrated math skills and talent drained right out of my brain, and (2) I became a raging little Bitch from Hell. How my (dear and wonderful) parents put up with me during those two years, I really don’t know.
The raging floodwaters of puberty began to recede after I entered high school. From the wreckage I salvaged some equanimity and a decent academic record. I never did get all my math aptitude back, though. :/
Holy crap, He’s playing Fire Emblem Fates
Rude, Benny.
The fact that you have excellent taste in video game wives doesn’t change that.
I’m curious, Dave. When Avery and Carrie got married, what type of ceremony did they have? Human? Sarnothi? A mix?
I am curious to see the families interact. Benny might feel annoyed by Selkie inevitably asking what he sees as obvious questions, but might not know what to feel after learning this kid doesn’t know the basic things about their culture because she was so young when pulled away from it. Heck, she didn’t even know she was Sarnothi until early in the winter. Whereas he may have been old enough to remember some things about Sarnoth before he and his mom had to flee. Both are pretty comfortable in the culture they live in now, but Benny may have been able to know everything about Sarnoth worth appreciating before the war broke out. Might make him think.
I am a girl, a hard corps gamer, and I *like* the silly characterizations in games. They’re not real. They’re escapist, and idealized, and extreme, and silly/whimsical. I think the kid is reacting the way his friends and many others would react to such ridiculous characters — almost conversationally — but I also think the parents *should* ensure that the context is understood to be inappropriate in the context of people in general. Also gamers are people. People can be jerks, and they can say jerk things even if they’re not jerks. I do not consider myself a jerk but I have definitely pwned some guys for saying, “Dude it’s a good thing no chicks are here!” because they thought I was too good a player to actually be a girl (I usually play female characters). heh. People can do dumb things. I like how Dave doesn’t sugarcoat how people react and brings across all kinds of people. There *are* kids who act like this. I think it’s funny and appropriate that one of said kids is Avery’s son. He’ll have to get a taste of his own smartarsedness. And deal with it
I like the stuff just fine, too, if I’m inclined to play, but if my kid said that, I’d stick smack the back of his head. It’s impolite for a kid to say that in that serious hate-the-world, disgusted tone of voice. If you wanna know why I assume tone of voice, check out his angry expression. That kid looks like he hates the world!
Why would Benny even respond to breasts? Sarnothi aren’t mammals. Presumably they would find completely different things to be physically attractive.
On a completely different note, I do hope the families hang out and that Selkie puts him in his place.
Why not? We’ve already seen they serve the same functions they have on humans.
We saw the baby Pohl feeding, so I would assume that they are mammals, but instead of baby growing in-uterus it grows in-aquarium.
I like this kid. Probably new second favorite character.
These comments are horrifying…
No young teen boy should be talking about girls like that, whether he’s sarcastic or not, or whether they’re fictional or not. That his first reaction to meeting a sarnothi girl is, “She’s no good for sex, so she’s no good to me.” Is troubling for a whole plethora of reasons. Being around this guy could be really damaging for Selkie.
Less Tumblr, more common sense please.
Which part of my comment defies common sense to you, exactly?
Repeat to yourself, it’s a picture, you can’t objectify an object. Sexualize certainly, objectify no. When I was his age there was sailor moon and I watched it because it was the closest thing to porn I could get at that age. I like to think I wasn’t a misogynist back then, I treated all and sundry according to their character not boobs. I also made a million jokes about the girls in the cartoon being either cheerleaders or Hooters girls. Then again, I also joked that if you spun Serena fast enough she’d be a chainsaw.
Just because a kid talks that way about a character designed for the fan service does not mean he thinks that way about real people. You can’t objectify an object.
Actually, he’s talking about Selkie.
He’s making a direct comparison between how he relates to those ‘videogame objects’ and how he relates to a real actual girl he’s about to get to know.
So, yeah
In the last panel I can only assume Benny’s talking about a video game.