Well, I do think they’ve established that they’re not here in a bad guy capacity.
I think the kind of bad guys who would dissuade a more cautious interaction by relying on social shame this way probably wouldn’t show up in Selkie, at any rate.
Yes. There is special training for it and and everything. It even has its own regulation guide book explaining how to properly be a dick in various situations.
Many people who seek a position of authority already have a chip on their shoulder or develop one. There is also the whole “asshole” mentality that Cops, agents, etc develop, they are supposed to be in charge of a situation for theirs and others protection and any challenge of that is often met very harshly. There have been a lot of studies showing how it can ruin their family life because they have a hard time turning the authoritarian nature off.
I mean, I get it, but when someone in your building has unnaturally colored skin, yellow eyes, and pointy teeth, and then someone shows up at that same building with unnaturally colored skin, yellow eyes, and pointy teeth, it’s probably reasonable to assume they’re connected in some way.
Also saying “civilians” is a pretty cocky tip-off to make.
Sai Fen was reacting to overarching rudeness (the guy was staring at her to the point of obliviousness) and on other occasions is just poking fun at a friend (usually Todd)
Agent Then is taking Shinji’s comment completely out of context and using it as a justification to rail at him. There’s NOTHING wrong with commenting that someone looks like someone else– hell, it can be interpreted as a compliment sometimes.
Um….Saying people look all alike, or you are *fill in race/ethnicity/whatever* so you must be related to/know *insert person* is rude, invasive and rooted in racism. Most commonly known for its use in the context of all Asians look alike and being rudely/invasive asked if they are related or know someone for no other reason than they are both Asian. So the question was rude and invasive and the agent responded by pointing that out with equal bluntness. Honestly, if Sai Fe had been asked that question, she would have responded similarity. Maybe even adding in the obvious fact that she and Selkie come from two completely different Clans/countries and do not in fact look anything alike.
Shinji said “You kinda look like her.” He did NOT say “all you XX look alike” or make any other generalization about Sarnothi at all.
Agent Then could easily have been a relative of Selkie’s.
When I was mentoring Robotics, I have been asked more than once, “do you know Susan?” (Susan is my daughter and is on a different Robotics team; she is well-known among the local teams.) The person who asked said “You look like her.” I can assure you NO racial profiling went on here, and the question was absolutely NOT impolite.
As to the differences between Then and Selkie due to their clan differences, my daughter only looks peripherally like me– she has some of my caucasian attributes but her Asian mother has resulted in her having different facial characteristics and a completely different skin color. After all, Todd realized that Pol was the same species as Selkie almost immediately and they are different clans as well.
Regardless if the the question was meant politely, said politely and intended to be polite, if the person on the receiving end does not perceive it or hear it as polite, then it is not. People who get stared at and harassed for their looks will hear things and perceive things quite differently than others who do not. And honestly, if you are calling what agent Then said and or did in response as over reacting or being over sensitive to a meant to be innocent but clearly not thought out question you got some issues of your own you need to address. Clearly this is a sensitive topic for you and one could interpret your responses as over reacting and blowing the whole thing out of proportion.
“Regardless if the the question was meant politely, said politely and intended to be polite, if the person on the receiving end does not perceive it or hear it as polite, then it is not. ”
That’s… not really how it works. If those conditions are true, then it was polite, but taken the wrong way. Someone’s reaction doesn’t change the intent of the original statement. If I say “hey, you look nice today” and you decide to take it to mean “you usually don’t look nice, but today you do,” that doesn’t mean that I was insulting you. It means that you read too far into what I said.
Uh, no. You are incorrect. Agent Then (I keep using “Agent” because his name is a freaking ADVERB.)
Being offended at something that generally wouldn’t be considered offensive is an error of interpretation, not an error of statement.
And I am officially out of this conversation with you, War. I was using my own family experiences as an example, not as a justification, and you have no grounds to make judgements of me based on them.
Sorry, my first sentence got cut off and editing of entries is turned off, so this gets inserted at the end of the first paragraph. Sorry!
Agent Then is overreacting, for whatever reason. Shinji offered no offense nor was it intended, as per his reaction “I didn’t mean to be rude”. Agent Then’s comment “and yet you were” is a statement of his opinion, not fact.
Agreed. If it was a case of having met others of their species, and knowing it *was* a species, then yes, it could have been considered rude. But I doubt they met many people who were not standard “human” color of whatever shade of melanin, so if someone showed up in an odd circumstance (claiming pizza without pizza, at early-before-school hours) who looked odd, but looked odd in a similar way to someone else in the building it’s fair to guess they are related. Especially since they know Selkie is adopted and a new addition to Todd’s family, so it’s possible a blood-relative could show up. Then is the one who overreacted in my opinion. (Sorry if this is dribble, I’m in a debate-class right now and having “proofs” of statements I make is tending to show up everywhere).
While this is certainly true in the present world, in Selkie’s universe it seems few people have ever had encounters with Sarnothi (depending on the extent of the re-insertion program), so their world would actually be more comparable to a pre-globalization “Asian” country with predominantly “Asians” and a handful of “Europeans” living there (supposing all the terms in quotes have clear definitions). Now if someone saw two Europeans in the building in the span of several days (one known, one unknown), I don’t think it is outrageous to wonder if the latter knows the former. I’m not saying that this would then feel any better for the person on the receiving end of the question, but under these circumstances the question doesn’t necessarily have to be related to racism either. Shinji did not say they “must” be related (he didn’t even say “related”): he made a guess & inquiry about their friendship status, which from my point view is an educated (enough) guess, due to the reasons above. It might still turn out to be wrong, in which case you correct them and move on.
On the other hand, I feel like Then is at the same time venting and making a point to Agent Brown : “See? Your program’s not giving ordinary people enough information to make educated guesses that are not stupid!”
(Curiously, all this assumes that Shinji *does* view Sarnothi as a difference “race”: if they really consider it to be a “genetic condition”, then that question was kind of rude.)
I take a different tact. I think he was doing it on purpose to make Shinji uncomfortable and to go away so less eyes are on him. I have done a similar stunt to people in the past to ward them away.
It was that yet you were that makes me think he’s messing with Shinji. Probably since that is a line I use an awful lot in interaction with people. It changes the tone of anything quite well.
I agree. Agent Then shamed Shinji for his question, thereby embarrassing Asuka for Shinji. (Anyone whose spouse does or says anything socially unacceptable or awkward knows that embarrassment.)……. It’s also human nature to avoid thinking about shaming situations because of the discomfort it brings. Asuka and Shinji have been primed not to think about or question the presence of the weird pizza guys.
More or less it comes down to Shinji was taken by surprised for more reasons than one when he saw the agents and his mouth said things before his brain could properly filter it or just keep from being said. This does not make him a bad person or a racist one, just careless and a bit thoughtless which is normal. He just got caught with his pants down with his foot in his mouth and became so flustered that he just forgot to stop chewing on his foot long enough so he could yank his pants up. It happens. Agent Then took the opportunity of Shinji’s surprise and uncomfortable-ness to both mess with the civilian, point out to Brown the flaws of the program without really having to say anything and to get the civilians to stop asking question and to go away. I am not saying Then was not being just as blunt and rude in reaction to the question but his response does not change the fact that bluntly blurting out comments about a person’s looks and doing a version of the ‘you look similar/a like’ is rude, even when it is not meant to be, and can have deeper undertones of emotional/social baggage connected to racism, other -isms and physical looks over all for some people that other people normally do not think about or deal with.
Dang – GallowsNoose and Shinjuan and yourself all make valid points and I will stand corrected. Then could either be oversensitive, as my argument was, or he could be super-smart in people-dealing and getting 2 things accomplished with a few very small interactions. I like your guys’ take on it much better than my own!
Heh. Kinda wish Shinji had been quicker to catch that slip and respond with what you just said. I don’t think Agent Brown would have let Agent Then live it down.
The cover for selkie is a genetic condition, Then knows this and since Shinji mentioned their looking alike, it isnt such a stretch for Then to say he also has the condition.
Don’t forget Agent Then is still p.o’ed that the gov’t is not allowing interracial existence known at this time and is tired of being referred to as having a “condition”. He wants his people known! Safe, but known. I am not justifying his rudeness. Just stating the likely reason for his behavior.
Do you just like annoying civilians? I get the feeling he just likes messing with people. I mean technically being your species you should know the little experiment with her. So…yes?
I think this incident demonstrates once again that Agent Then has something of a chip on his shoulder — about these humans and about the whole project of letting Selkie live amongst them. He’s being forced to participate (on orders from his people?) but would love to be proved right by having it fail. So he pushes, whenever he can. Here, he’s clearly trying to get these two humans to challenge him, first with the ridiculous “pizza” story, and then accusing Shinji of being rude.
I’m wondering what will happen when he runs into some human less easily intimidated.
I read Then’s name with the other th. The then as in the preposition has a hard the like in “the”. Then’s name I give a soft th like in “this”. Is that correct?
Worst secret agents ever?
Well, I do think they’ve established that they’re not here in a bad guy capacity.
I think the kind of bad guys who would dissuade a more cautious interaction by relying on social shame this way probably wouldn’t show up in Selkie, at any rate.
I think they are the secret agents that are actually meant to be seen to some degree.
I just love that they didn’t even bother to bring a pizza with them.
Does “Government Pizza” Open before 7 A.M., or is this a “special order”?
So, is being a d**k part of the freaking JOB DESCRIPTION?
Yes. There is special training for it and and everything. It even has its own regulation guide book explaining how to properly be a dick in various situations.
Many people who seek a position of authority already have a chip on their shoulder or develop one. There is also the whole “asshole” mentality that Cops, agents, etc develop, they are supposed to be in charge of a situation for theirs and others protection and any challenge of that is often met very harshly. There have been a lot of studies showing how it can ruin their family life because they have a hard time turning the authoritarian nature off.
I mean, I get it, but when someone in your building has unnaturally colored skin, yellow eyes, and pointy teeth, and then someone shows up at that same building with unnaturally colored skin, yellow eyes, and pointy teeth, it’s probably reasonable to assume they’re connected in some way.
Also saying “civilians” is a pretty cocky tip-off to make.
That, and it’s not rude to ask whether you’re friends with someone.
But he’s a jerk, so that’s to be expected.
I like this guy already. He comes from the Sai Fei school of interspecies communication.
Sai Fen was reacting to overarching rudeness (the guy was staring at her to the point of obliviousness) and on other occasions is just poking fun at a friend (usually Todd)
Agent Then is taking Shinji’s comment completely out of context and using it as a justification to rail at him. There’s NOTHING wrong with commenting that someone looks like someone else– hell, it can be interpreted as a compliment sometimes.
Um….Saying people look all alike, or you are *fill in race/ethnicity/whatever* so you must be related to/know *insert person* is rude, invasive and rooted in racism. Most commonly known for its use in the context of all Asians look alike and being rudely/invasive asked if they are related or know someone for no other reason than they are both Asian. So the question was rude and invasive and the agent responded by pointing that out with equal bluntness. Honestly, if Sai Fe had been asked that question, she would have responded similarity. Maybe even adding in the obvious fact that she and Selkie come from two completely different Clans/countries and do not in fact look anything alike.
Shinji said “You kinda look like her.” He did NOT say “all you XX look alike” or make any other generalization about Sarnothi at all.
Agent Then could easily have been a relative of Selkie’s.
When I was mentoring Robotics, I have been asked more than once, “do you know Susan?” (Susan is my daughter and is on a different Robotics team; she is well-known among the local teams.) The person who asked said “You look like her.” I can assure you NO racial profiling went on here, and the question was absolutely NOT impolite.
As to the differences between Then and Selkie due to their clan differences, my daughter only looks peripherally like me– she has some of my caucasian attributes but her Asian mother has resulted in her having different facial characteristics and a completely different skin color. After all, Todd realized that Pol was the same species as Selkie almost immediately and they are different clans as well.
Agent Then overreacted.
Regardless if the the question was meant politely, said politely and intended to be polite, if the person on the receiving end does not perceive it or hear it as polite, then it is not. People who get stared at and harassed for their looks will hear things and perceive things quite differently than others who do not. And honestly, if you are calling what agent Then said and or did in response as over reacting or being over sensitive to a meant to be innocent but clearly not thought out question you got some issues of your own you need to address. Clearly this is a sensitive topic for you and one could interpret your responses as over reacting and blowing the whole thing out of proportion.
“Regardless if the the question was meant politely, said politely and intended to be polite, if the person on the receiving end does not perceive it or hear it as polite, then it is not. ”
That’s… not really how it works. If those conditions are true, then it was polite, but taken the wrong way. Someone’s reaction doesn’t change the intent of the original statement. If I say “hey, you look nice today” and you decide to take it to mean “you usually don’t look nice, but today you do,” that doesn’t mean that I was insulting you. It means that you read too far into what I said.
Uh, no. You are incorrect. Agent Then (I keep using “Agent” because his name is a freaking ADVERB.)
Being offended at something that generally wouldn’t be considered offensive is an error of interpretation, not an error of statement.
And I am officially out of this conversation with you, War. I was using my own family experiences as an example, not as a justification, and you have no grounds to make judgements of me based on them.
Sorry, my first sentence got cut off and editing of entries is turned off, so this gets inserted at the end of the first paragraph. Sorry!
Agent Then is overreacting, for whatever reason. Shinji offered no offense nor was it intended, as per his reaction “I didn’t mean to be rude”. Agent Then’s comment “and yet you were” is a statement of his opinion, not fact.
Agreed. If it was a case of having met others of their species, and knowing it *was* a species, then yes, it could have been considered rude. But I doubt they met many people who were not standard “human” color of whatever shade of melanin, so if someone showed up in an odd circumstance (claiming pizza without pizza, at early-before-school hours) who looked odd, but looked odd in a similar way to someone else in the building it’s fair to guess they are related. Especially since they know Selkie is adopted and a new addition to Todd’s family, so it’s possible a blood-relative could show up. Then is the one who overreacted in my opinion. (Sorry if this is dribble, I’m in a debate-class right now and having “proofs” of statements I make is tending to show up everywhere).
While this is certainly true in the present world, in Selkie’s universe it seems few people have ever had encounters with Sarnothi (depending on the extent of the re-insertion program), so their world would actually be more comparable to a pre-globalization “Asian” country with predominantly “Asians” and a handful of “Europeans” living there (supposing all the terms in quotes have clear definitions). Now if someone saw two Europeans in the building in the span of several days (one known, one unknown), I don’t think it is outrageous to wonder if the latter knows the former. I’m not saying that this would then feel any better for the person on the receiving end of the question, but under these circumstances the question doesn’t necessarily have to be related to racism either. Shinji did not say they “must” be related (he didn’t even say “related”): he made a guess & inquiry about their friendship status, which from my point view is an educated (enough) guess, due to the reasons above. It might still turn out to be wrong, in which case you correct them and move on.
On the other hand, I feel like Then is at the same time venting and making a point to Agent Brown : “See? Your program’s not giving ordinary people enough information to make educated guesses that are not stupid!”
(Curiously, all this assumes that Shinji *does* view Sarnothi as a difference “race”: if they really consider it to be a “genetic condition”, then that question was kind of rude.)
I take a different tact. I think he was doing it on purpose to make Shinji uncomfortable and to go away so less eyes are on him. I have done a similar stunt to people in the past to ward them away.
It was that yet you were that makes me think he’s messing with Shinji. Probably since that is a line I use an awful lot in interaction with people. It changes the tone of anything quite well.
I agree. Agent Then shamed Shinji for his question, thereby embarrassing Asuka for Shinji. (Anyone whose spouse does or says anything socially unacceptable or awkward knows that embarrassment.)……. It’s also human nature to avoid thinking about shaming situations because of the discomfort it brings. Asuka and Shinji have been primed not to think about or question the presence of the weird pizza guys.
That’s certainly very plausible too. It could be both ways, he just likes to mess with as many people around as possible.
More or less it comes down to Shinji was taken by surprised for more reasons than one when he saw the agents and his mouth said things before his brain could properly filter it or just keep from being said. This does not make him a bad person or a racist one, just careless and a bit thoughtless which is normal. He just got caught with his pants down with his foot in his mouth and became so flustered that he just forgot to stop chewing on his foot long enough so he could yank his pants up. It happens. Agent Then took the opportunity of Shinji’s surprise and uncomfortable-ness to both mess with the civilian, point out to Brown the flaws of the program without really having to say anything and to get the civilians to stop asking question and to go away. I am not saying Then was not being just as blunt and rude in reaction to the question but his response does not change the fact that bluntly blurting out comments about a person’s looks and doing a version of the ‘you look similar/a like’ is rude, even when it is not meant to be, and can have deeper undertones of emotional/social baggage connected to racism, other -isms and physical looks over all for some people that other people normally do not think about or deal with.
Dang – GallowsNoose and Shinjuan and yourself all make valid points and I will stand corrected. Then could either be oversensitive, as my argument was, or he could be super-smart in people-dealing and getting 2 things accomplished with a few very small interactions. I like your guys’ take on it much better than my own!
*blinks*
Wow…. I make a two sentence personal comment and it turns into a multiple post dissertation. *motherly chuckle* Good grief.
Sometimes saying “I like something….” is just that.
Have fun Mr. Then, that card has a limited warranty on it. And depending on when this takes place, it may run out pretty quick.
Got to get in your enjoyment at the expense of others while you can. Like you said, it only lasts for a limited of time and gets stale pretty quick.
What’s Then holding in the third panel?
His sunglasses. With a backstrap (probably to deal with his Sarnothi ears.)
Darn, he pulled off a YEEEEAAAHHH moment and I missed it. 😀
Wouldn’t this be a reverse-YEEEEAAAHHH, since the shades came off (and would that be a NOPE moment)?
I’d say a HHHHAAAAEEEEYYYY moment. 😉 (darn that was hard to type.)
He removed his sunglasses to more directly stare at Shinji.
I think he’s really just being a jerk for funsies, not out of any real sense of being offended. He seems to be grinning in the last panel.
I first read Agent Brown’s sentence as “Then stop messing with the civilians” instead of “Then, stop messing with the civilians”.
Amazing how one comma can change the meaning of a sentence.
*snort* subtle, brown, veeery subtle. nothing screams ‘agent!’ quite like refering to random people as ‘civillians’
*Warning: contains TV Tropes page*
Does it fit the http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BlatantLies trope, I wonder?
I’m thinking Agent Brown is both very thankful that most people tend to have Weirdness Censors that keep them from seeing the obvious and annoyed.
Almost everyone in the comic is equipped with that censor, it seems.
I’ be like “So you do know Selkie, if you know about her genetic condition”!
Heh. Kinda wish Shinji had been quicker to catch that slip and respond with what you just said. I don’t think Agent Brown would have let Agent Then live it down.
The cover for selkie is a genetic condition, Then knows this and since Shinji mentioned their looking alike, it isnt such a stretch for Then to say he also has the condition.
Don’t forget Agent Then is still p.o’ed that the gov’t is not allowing interracial existence known at this time and is tired of being referred to as having a “condition”. He wants his people known! Safe, but known. I am not justifying his rudeness. Just stating the likely reason for his behavior.
Good catch! Too bad it was Shinji and not Shinichi……
The right answer to “Why would you think I know Selkie”:
“Because I don’t believe in coincidence, so you almost certainly know her. I asked if you are her friend.”
Come to think of it, that’s also the right answer to his follow-up question about genetics – only asked with more urgency.
Do you just like annoying civilians? I get the feeling he just likes messing with people. I mean technically being your species you should know the little experiment with her. So…yes?
I think this incident demonstrates once again that Agent Then has something of a chip on his shoulder — about these humans and about the whole project of letting Selkie live amongst them. He’s being forced to participate (on orders from his people?) but would love to be proved right by having it fail. So he pushes, whenever he can. Here, he’s clearly trying to get these two humans to challenge him, first with the ridiculous “pizza” story, and then accusing Shinji of being rude.
I’m wondering what will happen when he runs into some human less easily intimidated.
That makes me worried what will happen if Agent Then ever bumps into Amanda. Because we KNOW she’s not one to tolerate anything like that.
I read Then’s name with the other th. The then as in the preposition has a hard the like in “the”. Then’s name I give a soft th like in “this”. Is that correct?
A soft ‘th’ is found in ‘thick’ or ‘thin’… in the way I speak, at any rate, ‘this’ is hard, like ‘then’, ‘the’ and ‘those’.
I don’t know which sound Dave intended, but I too want to hear Then as a soft ‘th’.
Yup, except “then” and “this” are still soft. If you want a hard “th”, try “thistle”.
That’s correct, it’s a soft “Th”
At some point would you mind adding an audio clip of how you pronounce the different Sarnothi terms and names? I’d love to hear how you say them!
Just to further clarify, Then’s name is pronounced with the the same sort of sound as “threw” or “thick”
For those into weird stuff such as IPA (like me): /θεn/