Panel one had Amanda's pigtails curved in a sickle-shape in my original sketch, but I wasn't sure what emotive state it properly conveyed. Plus it made her look a bit like Mini Moon.
You might as well make the earrings change every page. There’s an anime (at least one) that does that with a t-shirt’s kanji — Juubei-chan: The Search for the Lovely Eye-Patch (which is also awesome and I totally recommend it).
Or, if you want to stick by realism despite her hair, give her mood-ring earrings. Then you could at least change color to indicate her mood, as an additional marker.
Amanda might not use that line, or might immediately regret it, if her foster brothers used it on her. Remembering how her foster brothers treated her might help Amanda realize she needs to treat Selkie better.
Plus, the major reasons why she originally disliked Selkie are now gone. Since she’s eight she probably won’t realize it right away, but she’s smart and will probably figure it out.
I won’t be surprised at *anything* that Amanda does. She is a bomb waiting to go off. That anger has to go somewhere. It’d be more satisfying if it was on Andi, but realistically I can see it dumping out on another child, and there are so many reasons It could hit Selkie (none Selkie deserves).
She probably is, just not as much as before. And may not even be admitting it to herself. But hey, they have a kid together, they have this reason to stay in contact and maybe do stuff together, so who knows? Andi seems more worried about Amanda right now than any actual relationship with Todd.
Andi, you do have to tell Amanda WHO made the mistake. Preferably before Todd says it in front of the kids.
I can see friendship maybe coming back MAYBE, because of Amanda. You know, keeping at least a friendlyish relationship going on because she seriously does need both parents. Though that’s it. Andi just had a daydream look on her face I’ve found worrisome.
…Ack, I meant to put that reasoning for maybe getting back with Todd in quotes, as if Andi’s thinking that way. Personally, I don’t see romance between them as very likely.
Andi’s getting just a wee bit of leeway on the daydreamy look right now, since Todd just told her “No frikkin’ WAY” a few hours ago. That kind of pointless longing is going to need time and/or repetition of “NO.” to fully sink in.
I see a tolerable business relationship where the parents act friendly in front of Amanda only. At this point, I can see Todd hating Andi with a passion–can’t really say I blame him.
That’s the thing. People capable of great love are capable of great hate. (Hey, it rhymes!) I hate my ex-fiance with every fiber of my being, I won’t go into it here, but she topped Andi. My mother always taught me not to hate, it’s not good for you and is a waste of time. And for the most part, I don’t hate people, strongly dislike yes, but not hate. But her, I hate her more than I thought I could hate anyone.
So Todd could yes, even though he was raised right. Everything has its opposite.
He won’t spend time secretly hating and raging at her, but I don’t see him being “buddies” with her either. She really crossed a huge line in a sick and twisted way (unless it’s revealed her mom is magically holding the strings). He’ll be decent in front of Amanda, though.
It’s kind of creepy and stalkerish. Imagine if their sexes were reversed. More folks would be desiring “Andy’s” head on a stake (metaphorically and literally). I have known way too many people like her–especially women with kids. It is so heartbreaking for the children.
That’s why I like this community. We have people hating Andi and calling for her head for her crimes period. That’s more than many fandoms get when you get a female character doing this stuff. And I think the reason a lot of people are giving her a pass is in the past we’ve been given a pov that makes the character we previously thought was irredeemable at least somewhat sympathetic. I think they’re waiting for it.
But yes, I agree that her behavior is wrong and if the positions were reversed, it would start edging horror movie territory and more people would be screaming at Andy for his behavior.
Do you think telling Amanda that would have made ANYTHING better? Like… why. How. Not telling Amanda that detail is the only way to make her life brighter with her newfound mom. That drama is awful enough without dumping it on a previously abused kid with abandonment issues.
The longer Andi can dance around the topic without actually telling Amanda, the better.
AMANDA NEEDS MOM SHE CAN TRUST. SHE NEEDS IT. REGARDLESS OF WHAT MOM DID OR DID NOT DO OR DOES OR DOES NOT DESERVE. AMANDA NEEDS TO NOT KNOW.
Being HONEST would show Amanda she can trust her mom.
She should’ve been honest that she was scared, that she was young, that she wanted a better life for her. Instead, she’s dancing around and when Amanda finds out later it’s going to hurt more than if Andi was honest with her now.
Yes. Telling the truth when you’ve wronged someone is hard and it SUCKS. But it’s better in the long run for both Andi and Amanda.
There is an age-appropriate way to say anything and kids do not do well with being lied to. If they’re old enough to ask, they are old enough to know. This comes directly from my training working Child Protective Services. We would assist parents in making bond and speaking with their children about what they did that was abusive or neglectful including substance abuse, physical abuse, sexual abuse, DV, etc. Transparency and honesty is the ONLY way to make this better and have it stick and lots deserve to know their own story. So yes, Amanda needs to know. In honesty, Amanda would have never been given back to Andi was this the real world and especially not scott-free. She’d have a therapist, they’re would be regular home checks, a gradual shift from supervised 1 hour weekly visitations to more frequent, longer visits, to unsupervised, to weekends there then a couple trial week long stays and THEN if everything checked out, therapist agreed this was good, CPS was no longer concerned, and the judge and child advocate approved, an adoption would take place. Walking in and getting your kids wouldn’t happen me would leaving them free to their own devices to discuss these big issues services for everyone would be in place. Andi would have needed parent education and to prove she can care for a troubled child, probably requiring her to get her foster care special needs certification (very intensive) which would take months or longer. Andi would need to notify Tod, Tod might be given preference to adopt if he wanted one they found out who he was, they’d all be in family therapy together, Andi would need individual therapy as would Amanda… the last goes on. But should Amanda know? A solid yes. Will it damage trust? Yes. But not near as much as of she waited for Amanda to hit an “appropriate age.” If 4 year olds on my case load can handle learning that Daddy hit Mommy and that’s bad and the year olds can be told that their grandfather toxic their vulva was not okay and should never ever happen again and mommy and daddy week keep her safe by always being with her when grandpa is there, Amanda can hear her story too.
Why would that level of intervention be appropriate in Andi’s case? Amanda was not removed from Andi’s custody for cause but was voluntarily relinquished at birth. All the abuse was at the hands of the Sandersons, an unrelated third party. Andi’s record by its very absence is clean.
I am really surprised Amanda didn’t haul off and punch Andi *hard* in the face. You *never ever* hug a child who’s been abused without asking first–especially when s/he is having intense negative feelings. The look on Amanda’s face before she super drops the F-bomb is totally a cornered animal face. How exactly has Andi been spending her time? Writing Todd’s name over and over in flowery writing? Really should be spending more *reading* more about parenting.
I really hope that when Andi proposes Todd spend time with Amanda, it isn’t the three of them alone together.
Either leave Andi out or definitely bring Selkie. Don’t make it a “family date”, because A) Selkie will feel alienated, and B) Andi should NOT be trying to win Todd back at this point. Like damn girl let it go already.
I don’t think Todd’s going to let that happen. He actually knows the concept of making his child(ren) a priority. Hoping Andi grows up a little, but losing faith.
Amanda will also need some alone time with Todd, at the very least to explain things from his end.
When explaining that to Selkie to avoid her feelings being hurt it’s best to flat out explain it. “Amanda needs time to ask Todd questions on her being his blood father, it’s a complicated situation.” I have a 9 year old niece and she can accept that kind of answer. It gives her the information she needs and does not treat her like an idiot.
Children this age do work on absolutes, but they can also understand and give leeway.
I think maybe Todd should drop Selkie off at the De´Madieias´ for a day, and he, Andi and Amanda meet at his parents´ place to talk things over. Better for BOTH girls not to be around each other during that…
I also assume that, between the aquarium visit and Monday night, Todd will talk things over with Selkie, especially with regards to Amanda has been behaving towards her. I expect a promise along the lines of “Even though Amanda is my daughter, too, I will not make you spend any time with her until she understands how wrong it was for her to treat you like that, and she has apologized.”
Routine days where he has alone time and days with them for fun would also be good. Like take Amanda to a favorite amusement park, and the next week, Selkie gets to explore a science learning museum. So they can both see neither is getting favorable treatment over the other.
It would ease Selkie’s possible fear of being taken back, and anchor Amanda some.
Ouch, speaking as someone who has problems with physical contact, I TOTALLY get Amanda’s expression there. This is why you do not touch without permission and definitely not hug without permission folks…
If the limb was still attached the hair took 20 mins or less to do in the morning. Anything that requires bobby pins, clips or hair spray would have cost you far more.
My bobby pin styles usually take me about 2-3 minutes. But then again, I’m very hair lazy most days.. So it’s probably a bun. And even then, I usually use a clip to hold my buns.
Hair spray always, because I have fine hair that likes to freaking fly everywhere and never stays in place. But.. at least it grows fast..
My hair is short. Comb wet, let dry, comb again to fluff. Maybe a dab of hairspray if I don’t want a windblown look.
You still don’t get to ruffle it. First, you don’t touch me at all unless I’ve granted you permission to be that intimate. But, casually, in passing, ruffling my hair? That’s patronizing. It’s claiming superior rank. It’s treating me like a pet.
I intended it as a sign of playful friendly affection, no patronizing was meant. But as these things so often happen, one persons playful affection is another’s invasive contact.
Plus I think she’d been to a salon that day, so it was a double screwup on my part.
I should have expressed myself more clearly, Dave. I was already quite sure from context that the gesture was innocently intended.
But I’m expect you’ve noticed that as kids grow up, they almost universally start grimacing, and maybe dodging away, when an affectionate grandma or aunt from out of town reaches out to tousle their hair. Happens around age eight or ten, usually, and seriously… DON’T EVER try to do that to a teenager. If they’re being polite they’ll endure it tight-lipped, but you’re still going to get on their don’t-get-close-if-you-can-help-it list. Dignity matters. Having your hair ruffled is not dignified.
Andi is totally oblivious to, and seemingly uncaring about, anybody’s emotional state but her own. Amanda is (1) huddling protectively into herself, (2) in shock from unwanted contact, (3) rigidly but passively resisting Andi’s embrace, and (4) actively straining away–and being pretty polite and patient about it, for her–and it comes as a big surprise to Andi in panel five when Amanda finally has to resort to both physical and verbal aggression to get free. Meanwhile, Andi is (3) making cheap promises she can’t possibly keep and (4) levitating off yet again into her personal, self-serving fantasy-land. A couple of hours ago, Andi dropped a bomb on Todd, telling him essentially that he wasted a third of his life living with someone who had lied to him every day about something vastly important to him, someone who had watched him grieve and suffer for a loss he didn’t have to sustain; and the only justification she offered was about *her* feelings (“So scared!”)…and three nanoseconds later she’s got her hand on his knee and is suggesting they should get back together. Then she seems shocked, or bewildered, or something, that he can barely contain his rage.
I have been trying to be patient with Andi, ’cause I kinda sorta suspect she has Avoidant Personality Disorder, and I kinda sorta suspect I do too, and you can’t get too snarly with someone who shares some behavioral Issues with you or you’re just snarling at yourself, which is counterproductive. But I am losing my patience with her now. She has learned nothing…because she damn well doesn’t want to. She’ll pay for it eventually. But Amanda will pay first.
Yeah… I’ve been trying to be patient with Andi, too. But it looks like the situation is going to get worse — and worse, and then worse again — before it gets better. There were several ways she could have handled this sort of right. She didn’t pick any of them.
Sigh… Andi? Why don’t YOU tell Amanda that you love her? Why hinge it on “dad”? Always on someone else. You still aren’t telling her you did all this… Sigh again.
Also, I am assuming that Amanda has suffered some kind of physical abuse, whether from her brothers or from her first adoptive family, due to her continual negative reaction to being touched…
To those of you commenting on Andi touching Amanda without permission…
This is a mother holding her daughter. Not a friend. Not a stranger. A mother. The only way for Amanda to not continue equating physical contact with physical abuse is to experience non-abusive physical contact. Andi’s hug was entirely appropriate. Amanda’s reaction was perfectly natural. If Andi keeps hugging Amanda during moments which require it, Amanda will get better in regards to physical contact. “No touching without permission” with regards to platonic physical affection applies to strangers and acquaintances. Not to family. Not to close friends. The push to allow it to apply for family and close friends is part of the issues with people feeling lonely.
Andi is Amanda’s biological mother, and that means jack squat at this point. She hasn’t earned the true Mom ™ badge yet. And yes, no touching without permission applies to EVERYONE if someone feels uncomfortable with touching. Family and close friends generally have permanent permission, but it can still be revoked at any time. If a friend told you not to touch them when they were upset, would you pull them into a hug anyway?
Even if family and close friends weren´t an exception (and they are), Amanda is hardly a normal kid. You don´t deal with the kind of issues she has by treating her like she doesn´t have them.
My family used to have hug and other physical contact permission all the time but I revoked it a few years ago when I started developing back problems. Though I love hugs and my family is very affectionate, a sudden hug on the wrong day can cause me spasms.
More related to the comic, my mom was abused severely as a child until her late teens and sometimes she will refuse physical contact so it doesn’t trigger a flashback. I’ve come past it now, but for years I was guilty/resentful over one time that I tried to wake her up with a hug and she yelled at me and told me to leave the room. Being suddenly wakened she was unsure where she was and my (normally acceptable) behavior put her into high alert mode.
tldr; I agree that family/friends get an automatic pass when it comes to physical contact, even towards children in distress.
“This is a mother holding her daughter. Not a friend. Not a stranger. A mother.”
She is practically a stranger to Amanda. They only met within the past week or so. While she is Amandas mother, that doesn’t make her MOM.
“The only way for Amanda to not continue equating physical contact with physical abuse is to experience non-abusive physical contact. Andi’s hug was entirely appropriate”
Only Amanda gets to decide if it is appropriate. You don’t teach someone that physical contact is ok, by FORCING contact on them. That will have the opposite effect.
““No touching without permission” with regards to platonic physical affection applies to strangers and acquaintances. Not to family. ”
In cases of abuse, it absolutely 100% is also in regard to family, unless the individual openly welcomes it, which Amanda clearly wasn’t.
“In cases of abuse” generally means the family member was implicated in the abuse. Andi is not the cause of Amanda’s abuse. The Sandersons are. Andi had no way of knowing the abuse would happen, and no way of stopping it at the time had she known.
I did not say Andi was her mom yet. I said Andi is her mother. You do not teach someone appropriate physical contact by avoiding it. Modeling would be appropriate if she had another child, or a better relationship with her own mother. She doesn’t. So all she can do is continue to react to Amanda’s distress with hugs.
For the record, my partner grew up in an environment with very little physical affection. I grew up in one with a hell of a lot of it. It took 5 years for hugs from me to stop making him tense regardless of context. Another 3 years later, and he comes to me for hugs when he’s certain kinds of upset.
>To those of you commenting on Andi touching Amanda without permission…
>This is a mother holding her daughter.
This is a parent forcing an intimate physical contact that the child does not want.
Not only is that damaging to the relationship between parent and child… it also teaches the child that authority figures are allowed to force intimate physical contact on children against their wishes, and that the child is not supposed to object or complain.
> “No touching without permission” with regards to platonic physical affection applies to strangers and acquaintances.
It’s as if you’re completely unaware that most children who are sexually molested are victimized by family members.
^ That. I’m not ready to stigmatize Andi too badly over this tho, the stereotype of parental affection is bloody hard to overcome in most societies. A couple weeks is not enough time to know every trigger another person has – husband was living with me for months before he triggered my do not touch button via coming up behind me and scaring the bejeezus out of me which triggered an anxiety attack.
Unless Andi herself was physically or sexually abused she isn’t going to have the personal experience to understand why that hug was bad and is operating on stereotyped info – ie mothers are supposed to hug distressed kids. First time is a learning curve, how she handles it the next time is going to say far more about how bad a parent she really is.
“it also teaches the child that authority figures are allowed to force intimate physical contact on children against their wishes, and that the child is not supposed to object or complain.”
Um, not if it’s handled right.
Please understand, I’m not saying to continue this hug past the child’s protests. I’m saying to continue giving the initial hug every time the child gets upset, and stop it once the child protests. This models both that hugs are appropriate during times of distress, and that the hug will stop when the child wants it to. It also makes sure the child doesn’t get afraid of signaling the contact needs to stop. There also needs to be a talk about what appropriate and inappropriate touching is. But initiating a hug within a close relationship is not a bad reaction. That is all I’m saying.
Hugs are borderline intimate. They are something acceptable between friends and family. Calling them intimate implies sexual when talking these days. It’s why teachers can get in trouble when a child hugs them. Inflating what a hug means is problematic.
I have had friends who I needed to ask permission to hug. I am not advocating that this is a bad thing between friends. But to say that a mother should refrain from initiating a hug with her daughter is to prevent the bonding that needs to take place.
I will make sure this is absolutely clear. Andi needs to continue to initiate hugs when Amanda is upset. Andi needs to continue to break the hug off when Amanda protests. This is the only way she can help Amanda have a reasonable attitude towards physical contact in general.
earrings are missing
Thanks!
You might as well make the earrings change every page. There’s an anime (at least one) that does that with a t-shirt’s kanji — Juubei-chan: The Search for the Lovely Eye-Patch (which is also awesome and I totally recommend it).
Or, if you want to stick by realism despite her hair, give her mood-ring earrings. Then you could at least change color to indicate her mood, as an additional marker.
I so hope that Amanda doesn’t hit Selkie with the “the only reason MY daddy adopted you was because he thought I was dead. He’s really MY Daddy.”
Amanda might not use that line, or might immediately regret it, if her foster brothers used it on her. Remembering how her foster brothers treated her might help Amanda realize she needs to treat Selkie better.
Plus, the major reasons why she originally disliked Selkie are now gone. Since she’s eight she probably won’t realize it right away, but she’s smart and will probably figure it out.
I won’t be surprised at *anything* that Amanda does. She is a bomb waiting to go off. That anger has to go somewhere. It’d be more satisfying if it was on Andi, but realistically I can see it dumping out on another child, and there are so many reasons It could hit Selkie (none Selkie deserves).
Though it is interesting that she established her boundaries there with… the adult in the room!
Amanda’s going to go through a lot of pushing before she starts trusting again, I think… And it’s likely to be at everyone, betcha.
That look on Andi’s face in frame 4, I dearly hope she’s still not holding out hope in winning over Todd. It isn’t happening. Stop being a ditz.
She probably is, just not as much as before. And may not even be admitting it to herself. But hey, they have a kid together, they have this reason to stay in contact and maybe do stuff together, so who knows? Andi seems more worried about Amanda right now than any actual relationship with Todd.
Andi, you do have to tell Amanda WHO made the mistake. Preferably before Todd says it in front of the kids.
I can see friendship maybe coming back MAYBE, because of Amanda. You know, keeping at least a friendlyish relationship going on because she seriously does need both parents. Though that’s it. Andi just had a daydream look on her face I’ve found worrisome.
…Ack, I meant to put that reasoning for maybe getting back with Todd in quotes, as if Andi’s thinking that way. Personally, I don’t see romance between them as very likely.
Andi’s getting just a wee bit of leeway on the daydreamy look right now, since Todd just told her “No frikkin’ WAY” a few hours ago. That kind of pointless longing is going to need time and/or repetition of “NO.” to fully sink in.
I see a tolerable business relationship where the parents act friendly in front of Amanda only. At this point, I can see Todd hating Andi with a passion–can’t really say I blame him.
Not sure Todd is capable of hating someone that much – his parents raised him better than that, I’m pretty sure.
Furious, though — oh yes, absolutely. And probably not ever trusting her again, most likely.
That’s the thing. People capable of great love are capable of great hate. (Hey, it rhymes!) I hate my ex-fiance with every fiber of my being, I won’t go into it here, but she topped Andi. My mother always taught me not to hate, it’s not good for you and is a waste of time. And for the most part, I don’t hate people, strongly dislike yes, but not hate. But her, I hate her more than I thought I could hate anyone.
So Todd could yes, even though he was raised right. Everything has its opposite.
He won’t spend time secretly hating and raging at her, but I don’t see him being “buddies” with her either. She really crossed a huge line in a sick and twisted way (unless it’s revealed her mom is magically holding the strings). He’ll be decent in front of Amanda, though.
It’s kind of creepy and stalkerish. Imagine if their sexes were reversed. More folks would be desiring “Andy’s” head on a stake (metaphorically and literally). I have known way too many people like her–especially women with kids. It is so heartbreaking for the children.
That’s why I like this community. We have people hating Andi and calling for her head for her crimes period. That’s more than many fandoms get when you get a female character doing this stuff. And I think the reason a lot of people are giving her a pass is in the past we’ve been given a pov that makes the character we previously thought was irredeemable at least somewhat sympathetic. I think they’re waiting for it.
But yes, I agree that her behavior is wrong and if the positions were reversed, it would start edging horror movie territory and more people would be screaming at Andy for his behavior.
Still didn’t tell her that she’s the one who told Todd she was dead. I love Andi as a character, but hate her as a person.
Do you think telling Amanda that would have made ANYTHING better? Like… why. How. Not telling Amanda that detail is the only way to make her life brighter with her newfound mom. That drama is awful enough without dumping it on a previously abused kid with abandonment issues.
The longer Andi can dance around the topic without actually telling Amanda, the better.
AMANDA NEEDS MOM SHE CAN TRUST. SHE NEEDS IT. REGARDLESS OF WHAT MOM DID OR DID NOT DO OR DOES OR DOES NOT DESERVE. AMANDA NEEDS TO NOT KNOW.
Being HONEST would show Amanda she can trust her mom.
She should’ve been honest that she was scared, that she was young, that she wanted a better life for her. Instead, she’s dancing around and when Amanda finds out later it’s going to hurt more than if Andi was honest with her now.
Yes. Telling the truth when you’ve wronged someone is hard and it SUCKS. But it’s better in the long run for both Andi and Amanda.
That flag won’t fly with an eight year old who is still thinking in absolutes.
There is an age-appropriate way to say anything and kids do not do well with being lied to. If they’re old enough to ask, they are old enough to know. This comes directly from my training working Child Protective Services. We would assist parents in making bond and speaking with their children about what they did that was abusive or neglectful including substance abuse, physical abuse, sexual abuse, DV, etc. Transparency and honesty is the ONLY way to make this better and have it stick and lots deserve to know their own story. So yes, Amanda needs to know. In honesty, Amanda would have never been given back to Andi was this the real world and especially not scott-free. She’d have a therapist, they’re would be regular home checks, a gradual shift from supervised 1 hour weekly visitations to more frequent, longer visits, to unsupervised, to weekends there then a couple trial week long stays and THEN if everything checked out, therapist agreed this was good, CPS was no longer concerned, and the judge and child advocate approved, an adoption would take place. Walking in and getting your kids wouldn’t happen me would leaving them free to their own devices to discuss these big issues services for everyone would be in place. Andi would have needed parent education and to prove she can care for a troubled child, probably requiring her to get her foster care special needs certification (very intensive) which would take months or longer. Andi would need to notify Tod, Tod might be given preference to adopt if he wanted one they found out who he was, they’d all be in family therapy together, Andi would need individual therapy as would Amanda… the last goes on. But should Amanda know? A solid yes. Will it damage trust? Yes. But not near as much as of she waited for Amanda to hit an “appropriate age.” If 4 year olds on my case load can handle learning that Daddy hit Mommy and that’s bad and the year olds can be told that their grandfather toxic their vulva was not okay and should never ever happen again and mommy and daddy week keep her safe by always being with her when grandpa is there, Amanda can hear her story too.
Why would that level of intervention be appropriate in Andi’s case? Amanda was not removed from Andi’s custody for cause but was voluntarily relinquished at birth. All the abuse was at the hands of the Sandersons, an unrelated third party. Andi’s record by its very absence is clean.
It’s standard for anyone taking a child from the state into their home. It’s nothing against Andi or anyone else.
I am really surprised Amanda didn’t haul off and punch Andi *hard* in the face. You *never ever* hug a child who’s been abused without asking first–especially when s/he is having intense negative feelings. The look on Amanda’s face before she super drops the F-bomb is totally a cornered animal face. How exactly has Andi been spending her time? Writing Todd’s name over and over in flowery writing? Really should be spending more *reading* more about parenting.
I really hope that when Andi proposes Todd spend time with Amanda, it isn’t the three of them alone together.
Either leave Andi out or definitely bring Selkie. Don’t make it a “family date”, because A) Selkie will feel alienated, and B) Andi should NOT be trying to win Todd back at this point. Like damn girl let it go already.
I don’t think Todd’s going to let that happen. He actually knows the concept of making his child(ren) a priority. Hoping Andi grows up a little, but losing faith.
Amanda will also need some alone time with Todd, at the very least to explain things from his end.
When explaining that to Selkie to avoid her feelings being hurt it’s best to flat out explain it. “Amanda needs time to ask Todd questions on her being his blood father, it’s a complicated situation.” I have a 9 year old niece and she can accept that kind of answer. It gives her the information she needs and does not treat her like an idiot.
Children this age do work on absolutes, but they can also understand and give leeway.
I think maybe Todd should drop Selkie off at the De´Madieias´ for a day, and he, Andi and Amanda meet at his parents´ place to talk things over. Better for BOTH girls not to be around each other during that…
I also assume that, between the aquarium visit and Monday night, Todd will talk things over with Selkie, especially with regards to Amanda has been behaving towards her. I expect a promise along the lines of “Even though Amanda is my daughter, too, I will not make you spend any time with her until she understands how wrong it was for her to treat you like that, and she has apologized.”
Routine days where he has alone time and days with them for fun would also be good. Like take Amanda to a favorite amusement park, and the next week, Selkie gets to explore a science learning museum. So they can both see neither is getting favorable treatment over the other.
It would ease Selkie’s possible fear of being taken back, and anchor Amanda some.
Ouch, speaking as someone who has problems with physical contact, I TOTALLY get Amanda’s expression there. This is why you do not touch without permission and definitely not hug without permission folks…
Or even ruffle hair. I recall people were way too casual about ruffling hair.
This is back when (sigh) I had hair…
I ruffled a female friend’s hair once.
How that hand remains attached to my body after doing that is a mystery to this day.
Maybe you’re a starfish and it grew back and there is another Dave out there that sprouted from the hand.
(Shamelessly stolen from LFG comments)
If the limb was still attached the hair took 20 mins or less to do in the morning. Anything that requires bobby pins, clips or hair spray would have cost you far more.
My bobby pin styles usually take me about 2-3 minutes. But then again, I’m very hair lazy most days.. So it’s probably a bun. And even then, I usually use a clip to hold my buns.
Hair spray always, because I have fine hair that likes to freaking fly everywhere and never stays in place. But.. at least it grows fast..
My hair is short. Comb wet, let dry, comb again to fluff. Maybe a dab of hairspray if I don’t want a windblown look.
You still don’t get to ruffle it. First, you don’t touch me at all unless I’ve granted you permission to be that intimate. But, casually, in passing, ruffling my hair? That’s patronizing. It’s claiming superior rank. It’s treating me like a pet.
Nobody gets to do that.
I intended it as a sign of playful friendly affection, no patronizing was meant. But as these things so often happen, one persons playful affection is another’s invasive contact.
Plus I think she’d been to a salon that day, so it was a double screwup on my part.
I should have expressed myself more clearly, Dave. I was already quite sure from context that the gesture was innocently intended.
But I’m expect you’ve noticed that as kids grow up, they almost universally start grimacing, and maybe dodging away, when an affectionate grandma or aunt from out of town reaches out to tousle their hair. Happens around age eight or ten, usually, and seriously… DON’T EVER try to do that to a teenager. If they’re being polite they’ll endure it tight-lipped, but you’re still going to get on their don’t-get-close-if-you-can-help-it list. Dignity matters. Having your hair ruffled is not dignified.
Oh God, flashbacks are happening. XD
Andi is totally oblivious to, and seemingly uncaring about, anybody’s emotional state but her own. Amanda is (1) huddling protectively into herself, (2) in shock from unwanted contact, (3) rigidly but passively resisting Andi’s embrace, and (4) actively straining away–and being pretty polite and patient about it, for her–and it comes as a big surprise to Andi in panel five when Amanda finally has to resort to both physical and verbal aggression to get free. Meanwhile, Andi is (3) making cheap promises she can’t possibly keep and (4) levitating off yet again into her personal, self-serving fantasy-land. A couple of hours ago, Andi dropped a bomb on Todd, telling him essentially that he wasted a third of his life living with someone who had lied to him every day about something vastly important to him, someone who had watched him grieve and suffer for a loss he didn’t have to sustain; and the only justification she offered was about *her* feelings (“So scared!”)…and three nanoseconds later she’s got her hand on his knee and is suggesting they should get back together. Then she seems shocked, or bewildered, or something, that he can barely contain his rage.
I have been trying to be patient with Andi, ’cause I kinda sorta suspect she has Avoidant Personality Disorder, and I kinda sorta suspect I do too, and you can’t get too snarly with someone who shares some behavioral Issues with you or you’re just snarling at yourself, which is counterproductive. But I am losing my patience with her now. She has learned nothing…because she damn well doesn’t want to. She’ll pay for it eventually. But Amanda will pay first.
Yeah… I’ve been trying to be patient with Andi, too. But it looks like the situation is going to get worse — and worse, and then worse again — before it gets better. There were several ways she could have handled this sort of right. She didn’t pick any of them.
That is totally NOT the time to call her on her language.
Sigh… Andi? Why don’t YOU tell Amanda that you love her? Why hinge it on “dad”? Always on someone else. You still aren’t telling her you did all this… Sigh again.
Also, I am assuming that Amanda has suffered some kind of physical abuse, whether from her brothers or from her first adoptive family, due to her continual negative reaction to being touched…
Yes she did. Lillian said that when her adoptive family brought her back, she had welts on her arms and legs.
To those of you commenting on Andi touching Amanda without permission…
This is a mother holding her daughter. Not a friend. Not a stranger. A mother. The only way for Amanda to not continue equating physical contact with physical abuse is to experience non-abusive physical contact. Andi’s hug was entirely appropriate. Amanda’s reaction was perfectly natural. If Andi keeps hugging Amanda during moments which require it, Amanda will get better in regards to physical contact. “No touching without permission” with regards to platonic physical affection applies to strangers and acquaintances. Not to family. Not to close friends. The push to allow it to apply for family and close friends is part of the issues with people feeling lonely.
Andi is Amanda’s biological mother, and that means jack squat at this point. She hasn’t earned the true Mom ™ badge yet. And yes, no touching without permission applies to EVERYONE if someone feels uncomfortable with touching. Family and close friends generally have permanent permission, but it can still be revoked at any time. If a friend told you not to touch them when they were upset, would you pull them into a hug anyway?
Even if family and close friends weren´t an exception (and they are), Amanda is hardly a normal kid. You don´t deal with the kind of issues she has by treating her like she doesn´t have them.
My family used to have hug and other physical contact permission all the time but I revoked it a few years ago when I started developing back problems. Though I love hugs and my family is very affectionate, a sudden hug on the wrong day can cause me spasms.
More related to the comic, my mom was abused severely as a child until her late teens and sometimes she will refuse physical contact so it doesn’t trigger a flashback. I’ve come past it now, but for years I was guilty/resentful over one time that I tried to wake her up with a hug and she yelled at me and told me to leave the room. Being suddenly wakened she was unsure where she was and my (normally acceptable) behavior put her into high alert mode.
tldr; I agree that family/friends get an automatic pass when it comes to physical contact, even towards children in distress.
“This is a mother holding her daughter. Not a friend. Not a stranger. A mother.”
She is practically a stranger to Amanda. They only met within the past week or so. While she is Amandas mother, that doesn’t make her MOM.
“The only way for Amanda to not continue equating physical contact with physical abuse is to experience non-abusive physical contact. Andi’s hug was entirely appropriate”
Only Amanda gets to decide if it is appropriate. You don’t teach someone that physical contact is ok, by FORCING contact on them. That will have the opposite effect.
““No touching without permission” with regards to platonic physical affection applies to strangers and acquaintances. Not to family. ”
In cases of abuse, it absolutely 100% is also in regard to family, unless the individual openly welcomes it, which Amanda clearly wasn’t.
“In cases of abuse” generally means the family member was implicated in the abuse. Andi is not the cause of Amanda’s abuse. The Sandersons are. Andi had no way of knowing the abuse would happen, and no way of stopping it at the time had she known.
I did not say Andi was her mom yet. I said Andi is her mother. You do not teach someone appropriate physical contact by avoiding it. Modeling would be appropriate if she had another child, or a better relationship with her own mother. She doesn’t. So all she can do is continue to react to Amanda’s distress with hugs.
For the record, my partner grew up in an environment with very little physical affection. I grew up in one with a hell of a lot of it. It took 5 years for hugs from me to stop making him tense regardless of context. Another 3 years later, and he comes to me for hugs when he’s certain kinds of upset.
>To those of you commenting on Andi touching Amanda without permission…
>This is a mother holding her daughter.
This is a parent forcing an intimate physical contact that the child does not want.
Not only is that damaging to the relationship between parent and child… it also teaches the child that authority figures are allowed to force intimate physical contact on children against their wishes, and that the child is not supposed to object or complain.
> “No touching without permission” with regards to platonic physical affection applies to strangers and acquaintances.
It’s as if you’re completely unaware that most children who are sexually molested are victimized by family members.
^ That. I’m not ready to stigmatize Andi too badly over this tho, the stereotype of parental affection is bloody hard to overcome in most societies. A couple weeks is not enough time to know every trigger another person has – husband was living with me for months before he triggered my do not touch button via coming up behind me and scaring the bejeezus out of me which triggered an anxiety attack.
Unless Andi herself was physically or sexually abused she isn’t going to have the personal experience to understand why that hug was bad and is operating on stereotyped info – ie mothers are supposed to hug distressed kids. First time is a learning curve, how she handles it the next time is going to say far more about how bad a parent she really is.
“it also teaches the child that authority figures are allowed to force intimate physical contact on children against their wishes, and that the child is not supposed to object or complain.”
Um, not if it’s handled right.
Please understand, I’m not saying to continue this hug past the child’s protests. I’m saying to continue giving the initial hug every time the child gets upset, and stop it once the child protests. This models both that hugs are appropriate during times of distress, and that the hug will stop when the child wants it to. It also makes sure the child doesn’t get afraid of signaling the contact needs to stop. There also needs to be a talk about what appropriate and inappropriate touching is. But initiating a hug within a close relationship is not a bad reaction. That is all I’m saying.
Hugs are borderline intimate. They are something acceptable between friends and family. Calling them intimate implies sexual when talking these days. It’s why teachers can get in trouble when a child hugs them. Inflating what a hug means is problematic.
I have had friends who I needed to ask permission to hug. I am not advocating that this is a bad thing between friends. But to say that a mother should refrain from initiating a hug with her daughter is to prevent the bonding that needs to take place.
I will make sure this is absolutely clear. Andi needs to continue to initiate hugs when Amanda is upset. Andi needs to continue to break the hug off when Amanda protests. This is the only way she can help Amanda have a reasonable attitude towards physical contact in general.
Clingy and the Beast