Maybe I just haven’t read up on international politics enough lately, but why does Cern’s opinion have any bearing on whether asylum is granted or not? Isn’t the whole point that they need protection because he doesn’t want them to leave?
Well… Sarnothi =/= Human. They may not have the same/recognize the same amnesty laws we do. Furthermore they’re probably waiting to see if Cern is going to deliver the classic, “Return them or we will take them by force,” line that tyrants are so fond of.
We don’t know the extent of what they have. Then has an invisibility harness. We’ve seen they can seamlessly combine flesh to machine. Then there’s that giant laser they fired, and managed to spread their message to televisions. To say nothing of what a fully trained Echo can do. If one clan was able to oust several others, they’ve got *something* that makes them the powerhouse.
It’s probably safest to assume that Cern will attempt to use force against the refugees if given the chance, whether or not he threatened to do so in advance.
Still, it’s helpful to at least have an estimate of just how much trouble you’re in.
It is the point, yes. They managed to escape. Cern’s got to be furious about that. If they were settled into Sarnothi villages in the lake such as Havei Jin Suir, there’s no predicting whether he’d retaliate by attacking the village.
Having them somewhere safe and on land is a much better option for now.
Now that I think about it, there’s no guarantee Cern won’t attack those villages out of pure spite. But at least the Echoes will be safe from recapture. Small enough consolation it may be.
I would… recommend against him actually ordering a deliberate attack of American territory. Even that hot pursuit from earlier was a casus belli, if we were in a bad mood that day; and the sarnothi all live in a hideously exposed position, by military standards.
We just have way more people and resources. Unless the Echoes are capable of sci-fi levels of superbomb damage, like antimatter level stuff, America can vaporize the whole civilization. Good idea, no. But we could if we so felt like it.
That’s why putting the escaped Echoes on the farm is a better idea than leaving them at one of the Sarnothi villages under water. Cern’s hopefully not stupid enough to try a land attack but would probably not hesitate to attack one of the underwater settlements.
I’m wondering how far the self made emperor can stretch his new power. His most common title among exiles is “The Heretic”, so likely quite a few people back in the city are thinking the same thought. The Spirits made a pact, according to the speech teacher without facial markings, and odds are by breaking the unity of the clans Cern has broken that pact. Pushing his luck, or pushing a new war after a brutal civil war, will likely spark a coup.
It’s all a question of how much megalomania Cern suffers from – not just in realtion to inner Sarnorthi politics, but also in international relations. The Sarnothi may have some unique abilities and technologies, but I really doubt Cern could stand up to the entire force of the US, even if some of that force may be of the table when fighting so close to your own borders (you don’t want to drop a nuke on an underwater city a few miles from Chicago or Detroit). Cern’s retoric sounds rather as if he considers himself unassailable, but that may be all bluster – or he may actually have talked himself into believing it, in which case he may be in for a brutal disillusionment. (Hmm – why does this all make me think of a certain Russian president?)
Depends on the power of Echoes to deflect and/or disable weapons. We’ve seen they can make big honkin lasers; presumably those can incinerate bombs and torpedoes. Do they have Echo radar? Some kind of psychic prediction?
Funnily enough, just yesterday I was listening to a podcast that mentioned how destructive blast fishing can be. Wikipedia article on the subject: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blast_fishing
It’s largely a consequence of water’s incompressibility resulting in nasty shock waves. I don’t know if Sarnothi have swim bladders, but it would undoubtedly cause nasty internal injuries nonetheless.
Admittedly, using this approach as a weapon of war against the lake-dwelling Sarnothi would cause horrible collateral damage, both on innocent Sarnothi civilians and on the ecosystem around them, but warfare tends to override ethical objections to such things.
For the lakedwelling Sarnothi, I suspect going to war with the landdwellers of the US, a country known for having quite a large number of explosives, would probably be a very bad idea, and might ultimately be relying on them not using the most straightforward means of retaliation.
Why the heck does it matter what Cern thinks? After all, asylum is never something a political leader wants to grant his own people. He wants them to not run to other countries and complain about matters under his rule. By definition, asylum is abandoning protocol with the country you came from.
Oh apparently another commenter already mentioned this. Even so, I don’t think America has a history of refusing refugees purely because their leaders might retaliate on remaining people. It does so for other reasons, but IIRC not really that.
Maybe I just haven’t read up on international politics enough lately, but why does Cern’s opinion have any bearing on whether asylum is granted or not? Isn’t the whole point that they need protection because he doesn’t want them to leave?
Well… Sarnothi =/= Human. They may not have the same/recognize the same amnesty laws we do. Furthermore they’re probably waiting to see if Cern is going to deliver the classic, “Return them or we will take them by force,” line that tyrants are so fond of.
How would he possible force the US to return them? We have tanks, and guns, and air craft. He has a few guys that can shoot lasers.
We don’t know the extent of what they have. Then has an invisibility harness. We’ve seen they can seamlessly combine flesh to machine. Then there’s that giant laser they fired, and managed to spread their message to televisions. To say nothing of what a fully trained Echo can do. If one clan was able to oust several others, they’ve got *something* that makes them the powerhouse.
It’s probably safest to assume that Cern will attempt to use force against the refugees if given the chance, whether or not he threatened to do so in advance.
Still, it’s helpful to at least have an estimate of just how much trouble you’re in.
The implication is that he will have them hunted down and potentially forcibly returned – or worse.
It is the point, yes. They managed to escape. Cern’s got to be furious about that. If they were settled into Sarnothi villages in the lake such as Havei Jin Suir, there’s no predicting whether he’d retaliate by attacking the village.
Having them somewhere safe and on land is a much better option for now.
Now that I think about it, there’s no guarantee Cern won’t attack those villages out of pure spite. But at least the Echoes will be safe from recapture. Small enough consolation it may be.
I would… recommend against him actually ordering a deliberate attack of American territory. Even that hot pursuit from earlier was a casus belli, if we were in a bad mood that day; and the sarnothi all live in a hideously exposed position, by military standards.
We just have way more people and resources. Unless the Echoes are capable of sci-fi levels of superbomb damage, like antimatter level stuff, America can vaporize the whole civilization. Good idea, no. But we could if we so felt like it.
That’s why putting the escaped Echoes on the farm is a better idea than leaving them at one of the Sarnothi villages under water. Cern’s hopefully not stupid enough to try a land attack but would probably not hesitate to attack one of the underwater settlements.
Huh, for some ODD reason the USA started doing new undersea nuclear testing. How peculiar.
Remember that these people are a resource to the Sarnothi, CERN is not going to let them get away without a price of some kind.
I’m wondering how far the self made emperor can stretch his new power. His most common title among exiles is “The Heretic”, so likely quite a few people back in the city are thinking the same thought. The Spirits made a pact, according to the speech teacher without facial markings, and odds are by breaking the unity of the clans Cern has broken that pact. Pushing his luck, or pushing a new war after a brutal civil war, will likely spark a coup.
It’s all a question of how much megalomania Cern suffers from – not just in realtion to inner Sarnorthi politics, but also in international relations. The Sarnothi may have some unique abilities and technologies, but I really doubt Cern could stand up to the entire force of the US, even if some of that force may be of the table when fighting so close to your own borders (you don’t want to drop a nuke on an underwater city a few miles from Chicago or Detroit). Cern’s retoric sounds rather as if he considers himself unassailable, but that may be all bluster – or he may actually have talked himself into believing it, in which case he may be in for a brutal disillusionment. (Hmm – why does this all make me think of a certain Russian president?)
Who needs a nuke? Conventional depth charges would do the (horrible) job, if you either use enough of them, or get one big enough.
Depends on the power of Echoes to deflect and/or disable weapons. We’ve seen they can make big honkin lasers; presumably those can incinerate bombs and torpedoes. Do they have Echo radar? Some kind of psychic prediction?
Funnily enough, just yesterday I was listening to a podcast that mentioned how destructive blast fishing can be. Wikipedia article on the subject: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blast_fishing
It’s largely a consequence of water’s incompressibility resulting in nasty shock waves. I don’t know if Sarnothi have swim bladders, but it would undoubtedly cause nasty internal injuries nonetheless.
Admittedly, using this approach as a weapon of war against the lake-dwelling Sarnothi would cause horrible collateral damage, both on innocent Sarnothi civilians and on the ecosystem around them, but warfare tends to override ethical objections to such things.
For the lakedwelling Sarnothi, I suspect going to war with the landdwellers of the US, a country known for having quite a large number of explosives, would probably be a very bad idea, and might ultimately be relying on them not using the most straightforward means of retaliation.
Yes… Witness protection…. Witness to war crimes I’m sure.
The war’s over. They’re peace crimes now.
Not how that works but sure….
Why the heck does it matter what Cern thinks? After all, asylum is never something a political leader wants to grant his own people. He wants them to not run to other countries and complain about matters under his rule. By definition, asylum is abandoning protocol with the country you came from.
Oh apparently another commenter already mentioned this. Even so, I don’t think America has a history of refusing refugees purely because their leaders might retaliate on remaining people. It does so for other reasons, but IIRC not really that.
Said refugees also aren’t usually coming from a country that has any way of easily reaching the US.