I can see Then’s point, but I’d also point out that Selkie and her human caregivers didn’t arrange her adoption as a step in going public with the Sarnothi’s existence. The plan for her seems to be integration. I’d think if a reveal of their existence was one of the long term goals, Avery et al would want to involve adults in that part of their agenda rather than children. If humans react badly, a child is more vulnerable.
Technically, is Selkie still (or only) Jin’Sorai? (she has a human “clan” too) Then seems not to have much respect for Todd or his place as her father.
Jin’Sorai is referred to as a clan, but clan does not suggest “family” in sarnothi context. Jin’Sorai is more of an ethnicity/social subgroup than a family name.
I think Mr. Then is being a bit harsh here. Being initially wary of radical, new developments is a coping mechanism that societies have developed and upheld throughout history. Just because complete and utter acceptance won’t happen within the next hour doesn’t prove that it’s being rejected either. All too often, history has proven that evolution trumps revolution.
I also think that Mr. Then is underestimating just how intimidating Sarnoth’s existence will be to the average person. Learning that a technologically superior race has colonized territory less than a hundred miles away would be legitimately terrifying. Sure, the Sarnothi may be an enlightened people, and their sense of morals may be compatible with our own, but diplomatic relation have a way of changing drastically every generation. (I.E. The U.S.A. was at war with Germany in WWII, but was one of its closest supporters and allies during the cold war.) If Sarnothi diplomacy was to sour for whatever reason, your family would be right next to the ensuing conflict against a technologically advanced rival we barely understand. To simply blindside the public with this knowledge wouldn’t just incite a panic, it would substantiate panic.
Then needs to watch Men In Black… especially the scenes where J has to decide whether or not to join up and K talks to him about the public at large vs an individual’s response to the knowledge about aliens already living amongst us.
Bravo, yes! I couldn’t have put it better myself. Yes, one or a few people could, would and might accept evidence of a new species, but there are a WHOLE lot more who would rally together around one moron saying things like “fangs an’ gills, dey’re freaks of nature, let’s kill’em!” Or worse, idiots with “god hates fish people” signs >> And I agree with Tarnagh, too. Especially where the Sarnothi can do the stealth and the magicy-sci fi power stuff, plus breathing underwater? We’d be jealous and driven to violence.
“Yes, one or a few people could, would and might accept evidence of a new species, but there are a WHOLE lot more who would rally together around one moron saying things like “fangs an’ gills, dey’re freaks of nature, let’s kill’em!””
If that were true, Selkie would be utterly forrbiden from wlking around in public. “evedence of a new species” just went skipping down main-street and nobody batted an eye.
And if humans are so instinctively intolerant, why does almost no one at her school have an issue with her species? Those that do can be counted on one hand. Was Selkie just lucky enough to go to the ONLY tolerant, enlightened school in the world?
“Especially where the Sarnothi can do the stealth and the magicy-sci fi power stuff, plus breathing underwater? We’d be jealous and driven to violence.”
Or legitimately terrified that they could kick our ass on a whim.
I guess I should elaborate on my last post, as It seems a bit hypocritical. (People accepting the Sarnothi/being terrified of their presence)
An Individual is a separate entity from a Nation. Although a powerful City-State may have it’s own agenda that may or may not act with our well-being in mind, America itself has accepted immigrants from bitter enemies throughout it’s history. While the city of Sarnoth itself would be a cause for concern, the presence of Sarnothi refugees would probably cause far less of a stir.
But let’s not forget what the fishermen’s response to finding a Sarnoth native was, regardless of the fact that it was clearly speaking (it was likely in Sarnothi, but even then they would have recognized the signs of speech): kill it, cut it open and pose with it like a fishing trophy.
The world (or at least their world) is not ready for the revelation of the Sarnoth. Heck, many are terrified at the idea of intelligent non-human life forms existing millions of lightyears away, let alone in Lake Superior.
Then doesn’t understand humans very well, does he? We can’t keep from trying to destroy other *humans* who look/act/believe differently than we do. If there’s anything humanity is good at, it’s xenophobia – and destruction. What we fear, we destroy. 🙁
What do you want Brown to do, Then? Go around saying: “So the Government made a deal to harbor semi-amphibious humanoid refugees from Lake Superior….that were exiled because of a Civil war somewhat caused by human fishermen catching and killing one of these aforementioned ‘fish people’. Oh and by the way, they are also Apex predators that are incredibly strict carnivores.”
Though even if they didn’t say exactly that, many people would see the Sarnothi as a threat. Humans tend to have the instinct that sharp teeth equals dangerous/threatening and I don’t see many people over-riding that instinct anytime soon. Doesn’t matter that the Sarnothi are people too, most will see them as monsters.
If I am correct, the official plan probably involves slowly integrating Sarnothi children so people don’t percieve them as a threat and then go “See? These people aren’t any more dangerous than humans.”
Or something like that. Ignore the night brain, I need to go to sleep now.
I can see Then’s point actually but at the same time though intergrating another sapient people among humans is going to lead into dehumanization and alienation. We treat our own like shit imagine what we do to another sapient species?
What do you mean, we treat our own like s!#%? No other species has gone out more of their way to aid their less fortunate members than we have. Murder and Rape are strictly forbidden. All our major religions treat charity as a virtue. Compassion is considered a GOOD thing by virtually the entire population, and we indoctrinate our children to continue the trend. Safe houses and soup kitchens for the poor litter the country. Where do you live?
AntiDragon – We may frown upon those things, but they still happen. If people were naturally angels, we wouldn’t need things like federal laws or the Geneva convention. What confuses me, though, is that I though the Sar Teri (sp?) were the ones who put the kibosh on telling people about Sarnoth, so why is he blaming Brown?
People aren’t angels, they’re people. AntiDragon has a point with regards to the fact that people are generally good, and value the good treatment of their fellow man.
Is there the occasional bad seed that utterly disregards these values? Yes. Can ordinary people be driven to do bad things? Absolutely. However, that’s far a far cry from the entire human race treating its own kind “Like s!#%”.
Gotta say I’m disturbed by Then’s reference to Selkie as “the Jin’Sorai”rather than as “Selkie”. It sounds like his political agenda far outweighs any consideration for Selkie as an individual child.
And he may not even know her name. He may only know that she’s a Sarnothi, and be able to figure out that she’s a Jin’Sorai. Also, Agent Brown has come out and said that there are other Sarnothi children needing homes, and some of them might be already in orphanages. He may be used to referring to Selkie as “the Jin’Sorai” as opposed to “the Sar’Teri” child that he’s also trying to keep track of.
One more comment, because I’ve had more time to reflect. We’ve seen flashbacks of Selkie’s mother saying she had to “go away for awhile” or thereabouts. And according to Then, it seems she’s a test run of sorts, a guinea pig.
On one hand, I can see the political pressure or the necessities for her survival forcing the mother to give Selkie away. On the other hand, she is literally a guinea pig and might not’ve needed to be given away at ALL, and this could easily be a comic about some other Sarnothi child. It seems…. cruel, to me. Even if it was necessary. It’s clear by Then’s dialogue that he considers her nothing more than a guinea pig. “See this experiment here, this child with periwinkle skin, let us see what the pink people do”.
I think someone should explain EVERYTHING to Todd and Selkie. She’s eight, not 2. Even with the immaturity of an eight year old, I think she’d be smart enough to handle the truth.
It just occurred to me; when Mr. Then mentions to “the Jin’Sorai”, is he referring to SELKIE, or her MOTHER? She did say that she had to “go do something” when she left Selkie behind… what has she been up to all these years?
Count me amongst those disturbed by the fact that he will only call her ‘the Jin’Sorai’. That’s like … suppose the situation were reversed and an American agent kept calling a human girl adopted by a Sarnothi “the German.” Or worse, “The black.”
Or, MAYBE it’s like he’s calling her “the Princess.” We don’t know all the overtones. It still sounds like he is seeing her only as a stereotype, a pawn in a power game, a representative of something-or-other, not as a person.
So, despite his engaging flippancy, I am not sure yet that I like him.
When there is only one, there really isn’t a need for a name. Not the friendliest response, but it isn’t as if he is speaking that way directly to Selkie.
Then is putting the cart waaaay before the horse. Humanity might very well not be ready for a nonhuman sentient species on the same planet as they are, especially one with such small numbers by comparison.
They shouldn’t be threating Selkie as a test subject at all, neither she or Todd agreed to be part of this “experiment” so it’s unfair to expect Todd to be anything other than a good father.
Haven’t people learned that jumping to conclusions about a character is a bad thing?
Everyone hated Agent Brown, Heather and Keisha and Heather ‘s parents before it was magically revealed they all liked Selkie after all.
Shouldn’t we like, ya know, stop assuming the absolute worst of every character who doesn’t love Selkie with an absolute passion? Just because a character doesn’t think she’s the purest most amazing creature on the planet does not make them uncaring and evil.
Ever hear of the trolley problem? Sometimes the needs of many outweigh the needs of the few as sad as it is…
In panel 7, Then says “people’s alliance.” Is he referring to just the Sarnothi? Or Sarnothi and Humanity? If it is both, I think it would be “peoples’ alliance” as a plural possessive. Though English is not my first language, so I could be wrong anyway.
Correct, sleepyrobin, IF you are referring to one group of people in the plural sense. In this instance, “a people” is like “a nation.” Then is referring to an agreement between two nations or two peoples. In this usage, the pluralization peoples’ is correct because it is the possessive of two peoples (in the sense of two nationalities). The ess is the plural of two groups, the apostrophe is used to show the joint ownership of the agreement. This is often incorrectly understood, even by secondary school English teachers. (Which makes me sad for my children’s quality of education.)
I can see Then’s point, but I’d also point out that Selkie and her human caregivers didn’t arrange her adoption as a step in going public with the Sarnothi’s existence. The plan for her seems to be integration. I’d think if a reveal of their existence was one of the long term goals, Avery et al would want to involve adults in that part of their agenda rather than children. If humans react badly, a child is more vulnerable.
Technically, is Selkie still (or only) Jin’Sorai? (she has a human “clan” too) Then seems not to have much respect for Todd or his place as her father.
Jin’Sorai is referred to as a clan, but clan does not suggest “family” in sarnothi context. Jin’Sorai is more of an ethnicity/social subgroup than a family name.
I think Mr. Then is being a bit harsh here. Being initially wary of radical, new developments is a coping mechanism that societies have developed and upheld throughout history. Just because complete and utter acceptance won’t happen within the next hour doesn’t prove that it’s being rejected either. All too often, history has proven that evolution trumps revolution.
I also think that Mr. Then is underestimating just how intimidating Sarnoth’s existence will be to the average person. Learning that a technologically superior race has colonized territory less than a hundred miles away would be legitimately terrifying. Sure, the Sarnothi may be an enlightened people, and their sense of morals may be compatible with our own, but diplomatic relation have a way of changing drastically every generation. (I.E. The U.S.A. was at war with Germany in WWII, but was one of its closest supporters and allies during the cold war.) If Sarnothi diplomacy was to sour for whatever reason, your family would be right next to the ensuing conflict against a technologically advanced rival we barely understand. To simply blindside the public with this knowledge wouldn’t just incite a panic, it would substantiate panic.
Then needs to watch Men In Black… especially the scenes where J has to decide whether or not to join up and K talks to him about the public at large vs an individual’s response to the knowledge about aliens already living amongst us.
Bravo, yes! I couldn’t have put it better myself. Yes, one or a few people could, would and might accept evidence of a new species, but there are a WHOLE lot more who would rally together around one moron saying things like “fangs an’ gills, dey’re freaks of nature, let’s kill’em!” Or worse, idiots with “god hates fish people” signs >> And I agree with Tarnagh, too. Especially where the Sarnothi can do the stealth and the magicy-sci fi power stuff, plus breathing underwater? We’d be jealous and driven to violence.
“Yes, one or a few people could, would and might accept evidence of a new species, but there are a WHOLE lot more who would rally together around one moron saying things like “fangs an’ gills, dey’re freaks of nature, let’s kill’em!””
If that were true, Selkie would be utterly forrbiden from wlking around in public. “evedence of a new species” just went skipping down main-street and nobody batted an eye.
And if humans are so instinctively intolerant, why does almost no one at her school have an issue with her species? Those that do can be counted on one hand. Was Selkie just lucky enough to go to the ONLY tolerant, enlightened school in the world?
“Especially where the Sarnothi can do the stealth and the magicy-sci fi power stuff, plus breathing underwater? We’d be jealous and driven to violence.”
Or legitimately terrified that they could kick our ass on a whim.
I guess I should elaborate on my last post, as It seems a bit hypocritical. (People accepting the Sarnothi/being terrified of their presence)
An Individual is a separate entity from a Nation. Although a powerful City-State may have it’s own agenda that may or may not act with our well-being in mind, America itself has accepted immigrants from bitter enemies throughout it’s history. While the city of Sarnoth itself would be a cause for concern, the presence of Sarnothi refugees would probably cause far less of a stir.
But let’s not forget what the fishermen’s response to finding a Sarnoth native was, regardless of the fact that it was clearly speaking (it was likely in Sarnothi, but even then they would have recognized the signs of speech): kill it, cut it open and pose with it like a fishing trophy.
The world (or at least their world) is not ready for the revelation of the Sarnoth. Heck, many are terrified at the idea of intelligent non-human life forms existing millions of lightyears away, let alone in Lake Superior.
Then doesn’t understand humans very well, does he? We can’t keep from trying to destroy other *humans* who look/act/believe differently than we do. If there’s anything humanity is good at, it’s xenophobia – and destruction. What we fear, we destroy. 🙁
The average person who fears the unknown does so not for the thrill of hatred, but rather out of a desire to protect what which they love.
What do you want Brown to do, Then? Go around saying: “So the Government made a deal to harbor semi-amphibious humanoid refugees from Lake Superior….that were exiled because of a Civil war somewhat caused by human fishermen catching and killing one of these aforementioned ‘fish people’. Oh and by the way, they are also Apex predators that are incredibly strict carnivores.”
Though even if they didn’t say exactly that, many people would see the Sarnothi as a threat. Humans tend to have the instinct that sharp teeth equals dangerous/threatening and I don’t see many people over-riding that instinct anytime soon. Doesn’t matter that the Sarnothi are people too, most will see them as monsters.
If I am correct, the official plan probably involves slowly integrating Sarnothi children so people don’t percieve them as a threat and then go “See? These people aren’t any more dangerous than humans.”
Or something like that. Ignore the night brain, I need to go to sleep now.
I can see Then’s point actually but at the same time though intergrating another sapient people among humans is going to lead into dehumanization and alienation. We treat our own like shit imagine what we do to another sapient species?
It doesn’t matter how gently we do it too.
What do you mean, we treat our own like s!#%? No other species has gone out more of their way to aid their less fortunate members than we have. Murder and Rape are strictly forbidden. All our major religions treat charity as a virtue. Compassion is considered a GOOD thing by virtually the entire population, and we indoctrinate our children to continue the trend. Safe houses and soup kitchens for the poor litter the country. Where do you live?
AntiDragon – We may frown upon those things, but they still happen. If people were naturally angels, we wouldn’t need things like federal laws or the Geneva convention. What confuses me, though, is that I though the Sar Teri (sp?) were the ones who put the kibosh on telling people about Sarnoth, so why is he blaming Brown?
People aren’t angels, they’re people. AntiDragon has a point with regards to the fact that people are generally good, and value the good treatment of their fellow man.
Is there the occasional bad seed that utterly disregards these values? Yes. Can ordinary people be driven to do bad things? Absolutely. However, that’s far a far cry from the entire human race treating its own kind “Like s!#%”.
Can I just say that I love how much Then’s stealth-suit looks like suspenders?
The Naruto face marks made me think the headband should have a clan symbol
Gotta say I’m disturbed by Then’s reference to Selkie as “the Jin’Sorai”rather than as “Selkie”. It sounds like his political agenda far outweighs any consideration for Selkie as an individual child.
Selkie is her “human” name.
If he would call her by name at all, it should be Nei Li.
And he may not even know her name. He may only know that she’s a Sarnothi, and be able to figure out that she’s a Jin’Sorai. Also, Agent Brown has come out and said that there are other Sarnothi children needing homes, and some of them might be already in orphanages. He may be used to referring to Selkie as “the Jin’Sorai” as opposed to “the Sar’Teri” child that he’s also trying to keep track of.
You’re right and I should have caught that, but Then doesn’t call her Nei Li either.
Then may be refering to her as “the Jin’Sorai” because few of them are belived to remain.
One more comment, because I’ve had more time to reflect. We’ve seen flashbacks of Selkie’s mother saying she had to “go away for awhile” or thereabouts. And according to Then, it seems she’s a test run of sorts, a guinea pig.
On one hand, I can see the political pressure or the necessities for her survival forcing the mother to give Selkie away. On the other hand, she is literally a guinea pig and might not’ve needed to be given away at ALL, and this could easily be a comic about some other Sarnothi child. It seems…. cruel, to me. Even if it was necessary. It’s clear by Then’s dialogue that he considers her nothing more than a guinea pig. “See this experiment here, this child with periwinkle skin, let us see what the pink people do”.
I think someone should explain EVERYTHING to Todd and Selkie. She’s eight, not 2. Even with the immaturity of an eight year old, I think she’d be smart enough to handle the truth.
It just occurred to me; when Mr. Then mentions to “the Jin’Sorai”, is he referring to SELKIE, or her MOTHER? She did say that she had to “go do something” when she left Selkie behind… what has she been up to all these years?
Probably being dead, as Pohl said that ALL Jin’Sorai are now dead, except for Selkie/Nei Li.
He’s clearly talking about Selkie: “You mean that three-ring circus caused by that man we entrusted the Jin’Sorai to?” Strip 576
Ploh Quar was in Milwaukee during the Todd’s family meeting. https://selkiecomic.com/comic/selkie122/
Count me amongst those disturbed by the fact that he will only call her ‘the Jin’Sorai’. That’s like … suppose the situation were reversed and an American agent kept calling a human girl adopted by a Sarnothi “the German.” Or worse, “The black.”
Or, MAYBE it’s like he’s calling her “the Princess.” We don’t know all the overtones. It still sounds like he is seeing her only as a stereotype, a pawn in a power game, a representative of something-or-other, not as a person.
So, despite his engaging flippancy, I am not sure yet that I like him.
When there is only one, there really isn’t a need for a name. Not the friendliest response, but it isn’t as if he is speaking that way directly to Selkie.
Then is putting the cart waaaay before the horse. Humanity might very well not be ready for a nonhuman sentient species on the same planet as they are, especially one with such small numbers by comparison.
They shouldn’t be threating Selkie as a test subject at all, neither she or Todd agreed to be part of this “experiment” so it’s unfair to expect Todd to be anything other than a good father.
That’s right, Then! Bureaucrats and agencies don’t care about you species’ welfare.
Haven’t people learned that jumping to conclusions about a character is a bad thing?
Everyone hated Agent Brown, Heather and Keisha and Heather ‘s parents before it was magically revealed they all liked Selkie after all.
Shouldn’t we like, ya know, stop assuming the absolute worst of every character who doesn’t love Selkie with an absolute passion? Just because a character doesn’t think she’s the purest most amazing creature on the planet does not make them uncaring and evil.
Ever hear of the trolley problem? Sometimes the needs of many outweigh the needs of the few as sad as it is…
In panel 7, Then says “people’s alliance.” Is he referring to just the Sarnothi? Or Sarnothi and Humanity? If it is both, I think it would be “peoples’ alliance” as a plural possessive. Though English is not my first language, so I could be wrong anyway.
Since “people” is already plural, its possessive form is “people’s”. (Similarly, the possessive of “children” is “children’s”.)
Correct, sleepyrobin, IF you are referring to one group of people in the plural sense. In this instance, “a people” is like “a nation.” Then is referring to an agreement between two nations or two peoples. In this usage, the pluralization peoples’ is correct because it is the possessive of two peoples (in the sense of two nationalities). The ess is the plural of two groups, the apostrophe is used to show the joint ownership of the agreement. This is often incorrectly understood, even by secondary school English teachers. (Which makes me sad for my children’s quality of education.)
Hey Then, you can go to France and establish your own NoGo zones if you don’t want to integrate into society.