I realized the other day that I haven’t done a Sketch Bonus Saturday in a looooooong time. I want to do one this weekend, but not sure what to draw for it yet… thoughts?
Also had another question. I read several webcomics myself, and a few of them I’ve seen that when they start looking toward print editions they redraw older strips that may not match the current style, or may be drawn less effectively than current strips. Curious what people’s opinions are of that.
No reason.
There's something indefinable about Barb's head shot in panel 3 I really like.
LMAO seen that coming
Selkie will be happy when she finds out. “Is can’t eats? Good lets gos home”
Did Tod mention her dietary limitations and they just did not pick up on it or did Tod forget?
Maybe a mixture of both.
They probably obsessed on the Vegan and didn’t hear the “and the kid’s a carnivore — not an omnivore, a CARNIVORE.”
I guess they totally To-Fu’ed up.
And nobody thought to ask or volunteer this information in the entire time they were prepping for this dinner? Heck, nobody thought to ask *Todd*?
“By the way, do you or Sophie* have any food sensitivities?”
* As a side benefit, it would have given them the opportunity to get her name right.
They knew Todd was Vegan; they probably looked into it with his co-workers or managers to try and cater to him and assumed he was raising his kid the same way.
That would be my guess too, but now the question is: How do they fix this?
Hey Dave, do you think the Fairweathers might have a Koi pond out back?
“Cans I eats Heathers insteads?”
I think Todd didn’t realize it would be a problem because Barb mentioned in the invitation that she “makes a mean steak”. *Went back to check* Also, I thought Todd was a vegetarian, not a vegan?
That’s right, she did say that.
I am too lazy to check but I *think* he mentioned not eating cheese at one point and Selkie (or someone) was like “wtf do you eat then?”
Opposite. When she first came home, the only thing in his fridge that she could eat was cheese.
Even vegans have food sensitivities; you can be vegan and allergic to peanuts, for instance.
This. I blame Todd. He knew his daughter’s dietary requirements and didn’t come out and let the host know.
Opinions of redoing old comics, or of looking at doing a print?
‘Cause I’m for redoing old comics. Sure, it means no new stuff, but even if you just do them quickly, get pages out like twice as fast, you’ll still be putting out better quality than those very early pages. So, wouldn’t take too long to bring everything up a notch. Or you could start alternating between redraws and new stuff.
I will bring up the site change and remakes of Alone in a Crowd, just to fuel debate. Tom (the author) basically said:
“I don’t remake comics, because if I spend all my time doing the same stuff, I don’t get anywhere new. But I messed up BIG time with a certain plot-point, and so I’m going to do some minor alterations for a major ret-con. Since the site is also updating soon, this is a good coincidence. I’ll post remakes, then they’ll get compiled in the new site. And after that, we venture forth once again, not getting caught up in the past.”
So there’s the context and the view.
Oh, and I guess I should put a link: http://www.aiacrowd.com
Considering the artist here is already busy with real life, re-doing old strips would mean no new strips at all, and at least for now, I think us fans are too rabid for the story to continue to want to have a long hiatus on new material. I know I am. 😛
I’m thinking people feel the same way about Shards, too. I find myself not wanting to redraw the old stuff for various reasons, and part of it is to show the molding of the story from past to present, which is key to the whole idea behind Shards. The introduction of Shards into a story changes everything but doing so allows the characters to step from their mold, change, and grow, just as I can as an artist in this, my first webcomic. It’s the same reason we don’t color the Shards comic except on special occasions or to denote something key to the story. My two cents.
Shards… You started out better.
Compare your first and last to Selkie’s first and last. (Which is your oldest on the site, BTW? The prologues? Or were they added later?)
You both do good quality work now, but Dave started from much less. You could print what you started on, it’d be usable. Not excellent, but can be excused. As for Selkie, the first to last comparison is quite jarring. And, without re-reading it, I believe it changed in distinct chunks; particular times when he stepped it up a notch. I’ll let someone else confirm or deny that though.
Parenting fail, Todd.
I really like the Fairweathers’ expressions in panel 5. They are not impressed with Heather right now — but is it because Heather’s revealing “I’ve tormented the special-needs girl enough so that I know what she does when she’s mad”? Or is it because Heather’s using dehumanizing language about the special-needs girl?
Maybe they can’t believe their kid is stupid enough to make fun of someone who gets “scary” when they’re made fun of.
Definitely redo old comics to fit the new style.. It adds more value to the print editions and will get more sales in the long run. Also gives you an easy extra in the form of the original drawings.
I’m not a fan of re-doing comics. There are a few reasons.
One is that it generally slows down the production of the comic. A good steady pace is important to me. A comic that is updated three times a week is going to keep me engaged better than one that is updated only once a week.
A second reason is that I will sometimes go back to a particular panel or scene that I liked. If I were to get nostaligic and go back and find that panel were gone… that interesting quirk of the eyebrow, or that blankness of the eyes vanished forever into the cyber womb of creativity, I would be sad and chagrined. Craps!
My last reason is the most important one to me. I really appreciate seeing the evolution in an artist and writer’s abilities. Seeing these changes is like the miracle of watching someone or something you love mature. Comparisions are odious. You may like the style you are using now, and think it is much more effective than the style you used a year and a half ago, but equally you may find you like the style you develop a year and a half in a future at the expense of the style you are using now. By the same measure you could easily find a writer more gifted than you (guest writer this week is Neil Gaimon) and an artist you think is far better than you are (guest artist this week is Milo Manara) and give up writing your own comic altogether while you try to get other people to do it for you.
One of my favorite comic series is Tintin and one reason I like it so much is because I can compare Herge’s later work with his earliest “Tintin au Pays Soviet” is comparatively a scribble and for decades was out of print because it was thought too bad to reproduce. But being privileged to see these changes means I can get insight into the opus that would otherwise have been denied to me.
Later works may certainly be objectively better than earlier works but that doesn’t mean the earlier works don’t still have strong merits. You can still buy prints of Picasso’s blue period, not just his more mature work.
All that said, these are my opinions and quite likely minority opinions. It will be much easier to hawk the graphic novel if it gets redone, because that milieu expects a piece that is consistent. That leads me into the question of what is more important to you – is the web comic the precursor to the graphic novel, or is the graphic novel a spin off and memorialization of the web comic? Your decision there is likely to be based on professional concerns. What will give you a stronger name and a better foundation for your identity?
How about you keep the old style in the graphic novel, but add a commentary?
TL:dr Not in favor of re-doing the comic.
You put my thoughts into words much better than I could. Fully agreed. (I’m also a fan of Tintin. ;))
I couldn’t agree with you more here. I don’t have a problem with folks who redo their comics, but I really like being able to see the progression of skill that occurs as an artist draws the same characters over a long period of time.
It shows that no matter how bad you might think your beginning artwork is, you will get better. Otherwise folks who have never seen the beginning work thinking “Wow, this guy must have just been born talented, I could never do anything like that”.
I feel far more inspired by comics that start out with less then stellar artwork and progressively get better because it makes me feel like I might be able to achieve similar if I have enough drive and ambition. Instead of only seeing the better work and thinking that you must just be born with talent.
There are very valid points IMO. Like you I enjoy seeing the progression of skill over time in a comic artist’s work, and I’ve had the same thought of “so… in a couple years when your art’s gotten yet even better, will you go back and re-redo it? And then again in another few years, and so on?”.
…Also now you’ve got me trying to imagine a Niel Gaiman story illustrated by Manera. It’s… a neat mental image, actually, but knowing the nature of Manera’s usual work, that image keeps bending away from Gaiman towards a more late Alan Moore direction, LOL.
Just gonna drop in here and say, yes, I see this, and if this is how it goes down, I’m cool with that.
I do wish to say though, on the redrawing front, this doesn’t mean you have to discard the originals. For the book, print the best, for the webcomic – rig it up to have both. Let the readers compare. Etc.
I wonder if you can un-veganize a roast by running it under the hot water tap…? Failing that, how close is the closest deli that sells cold cuts?
I love the pacing on this post.
The “veganized roast” probably doesn’t have meat at all.
I think they knew that Todd was a vegetarian from work functions. It makes sense to me that they thought they’d impress by remembering that, or looking it up in old work emails.
By the looks in panel 5 I think Heather’s in for some more grounding for not letting them know about Selkie’s nutritional needs…
I’m also in favor of NOT redoing previous strips. I liked how the black and white switched to colour (and when it did), as well as seeing the characters get more detailed and focused in design as they do in personality as we get to know them.
Monthly serialized manga also tend to change over time if they’re long running. Not a lot, but definitely noticeable after 2 years or so 😛
I do advocate redoing choice strips if there’s need for substantial editing of the strip.
She might get more grounding, however, she might not, particularly if she didn’t think about it. Kids that age tend to be focused primarily on them. Also, sometimes they do things and they have absolutely no idea WHY they did it, other than to do it. I actually had this discussion with a co-worker recently, and it turned into a lunchroom forum with everyone chiming in, and we all came to the conclusions when kids say they don’t know why they did it, sometimes, they actually don’t.
Re-doing old comics – one of the nicest things about the Charlie Brown books, or about Calvin and Hobbs, is watching the artist’s style change through the years. Don’t re-do your stuff. It is what it is.
I’m liking Heather more and more, because of this strip.
And finally, I realize WHY you wanted to do this strip, but it breaks the “suspension of disbelief”. Nobody would take their kid (with severe food allergies) to dinner at someone’s house without telling the hosts about the dietary requirements.
Then again, Todd is still new to this parenting issue, he might not just have thought of it.
I can see both sides of the redraw conversation. On one hand, you would have the better art and so forth, and everything would be more cohesive. At least in theory. But on the other hand, it IS really neat to look back and see how far someone has progressed to this point. ((Of course, in a few cases, this point is moot because the artist uses several different styles in one comic. Rosalarian’s finished “Yu+Me Dream”, for example.)) I can’t draw anything more than stick-figures, myself, though I feel the same about my writing. I guess it really just comes down to what the particular artist/author feels like doing. Perhaps if you were to consider redoing old pages, you could have a special archive section featuring the originals, or something of that nature? That way everyone would be happy.
You know, say what you will about Heather but she does seem to notice lots of details. I’m betting she and Selkie will eventually become friends because when it comes down to it Heather isn’t a bad person and they both could use a friend right now.
I think the older comics should get a touch up if they are going into print, but for the site itself there should be a link to the old ones for the older fans who like to look back on how it all began, i find myself occasionally archive diving for the heck of it.
I dont think a touch up would be higher importance than current content though, which i doubt is your plan to begin with, but if time doesn’t allow for both, keeping the nostalgia to keep current isnt so bad either
*nod* Having both is an excellent compromise, online. (A Girl And Her Fed does this.) But if time is a constraint? Progression is good, too. (Archipeligo, for instance, is a pretty awesome “fun but really rough” to “Whoa” progression. I think Zap! does that as well, including printing the rougher version just as-is.)
Wow, all around fail. Todd for not checking – you have a kid with food spcifications now, you need to make that plain to people, which you should know as a vegetarian. Fairweathers actually less so, they didn’t know and were accomadating Todd’s eating pattern, the only one they knew. Heather, fail, you watched them making dinner and knew Selkie’s restrictions.
Don’t redraw. I love watching an artist’s style develop.
Selkie in Print would be great. A comic evolves and I find it interesting to see the art style changes as the comic matures. Don’t change the old.
Re: Heather and all that: she’s eight. Everyone in her world already knows about Selkie, so she wouldn’t think to tell her parents. And they clearly didn’t ask her, because she would’ve corrected them on the name immediately (like she did). I hope they realize it’s their mistake and don’t punish her for this snafu.
Re: old comics: Absolutely retouch for print, but don’t massively redraw, and don’t change the web archives. You’ll make yourself crazy trying to get it all just right. We like what you’ve done, otherwise we wouldn’t have made it through the early artwork and kept up with new strips.
Oh man love the “Oh F*&#!” expressions in that last panel. Had me laughing.
Uh oh…. This is going to be interesting… Well, at least they know now… right?
If re-doing old stuff (for printing or whatnot) means no new strips, I’d personally prefer you didn’t. If you’re looking to profit from the webcomic, making an item shop might be worth looking into. From other webcomicers’ efforts I know the printing of comics is a huuuuuge hassle.
(Also, everyone always wants payments to be via PayPal, and most don’t offer overseas shipping, so even if I could afford to buy a print version of Selkie – I’d love to have an album, don’t take my comments wrong – it would be difficul/impossible for me to do so. :()
I absolutely agree with you that sacrificing new strips for the sake of re-drawing old ones is not a good idea. If I do decide to re-draw older strips for a print collection I wholly believe that I should do so WITHOUT delaying or stalling the established Monday/Thursday update schedule. I hate hiatuses as much as any other webcomic reader, and especially now that I have a webcomic of my own the idea of people drifting away and never coming back because I took a hiatus worries and scares me. I have several comics on my own list that I only check into periodically because they update so haphazardly.
And thank you for voicing the international shipping concern. When (not if, as I feel its only a matter of time for me) I get around to making some Selkie merch, I absolutely do not want my international readers left out. 🙂 I am looking at some ideas beyond the print collection too…
Dinosaur dress? Pleeez? On a more realistic note, tshirts would be cool ^.^
Oh oh…. Selkie plushies, T-shirts, Sleep wear, Coffee mugs?
Miniposters (at most double the size of an A4 paper) would be nice, pins, bookmarks, and like others said, T-shirts and such would work nicely.
And perhaps, just for fun, a recipe book(let) with dishes Selkie can eat. The “no bread chicken nuggets” Todd made actually sound tasty.
Please don’t make books. Every webcomic who makes books ends up taking off months and months to prep and send them. It always causes the story to move at a glacial pace or stop for months on end. Find another way to make cash. 🙁
This is his livelihood you are speaking of. Every person has a right to try and make a living at something that they love doing. If this step helps him to survive and KEEP MAKING THE COMIC then I say more power to him even if it means weeks of guest strips.
Yeah, I may not enjoy the guest strips as much as I enjoy the actual comic, but I know that if it helps him pay the bills then he will have more time to do the actual comic in the long run.
Sometimes things are worth waiting for. Not everything has to be total instant gratification… that sort of attitude is what is leading the world as we know it right into the toilet if you ask me.
I don’t just mean guest strips. I mean literal months without updates of the, “Sorry guys, so busy because the books just came in,” etc. etc. After the book is published the comic always suffers. Always. The author never quite has the mental space to write the way he or she once did. I can’t think of a single exception…Order of the Stick, Skin Deep, and Erfworld all come to mind as beautiful examples.
He could also have someone he trust run the book production and just ask him about the details he wants, such as covers and font and stuff.
Some of the other artists have dealt with this issue by leaving the original pages in a special archive area for those who are interested. The best compromise seems to have been “I’m going to redraw the introduction and that’s all.”
PLEASE don’t re-do it!
Redrawing has its pros and cons like anything else. Pro: it looks more professional and polished- it could be neat seeing Selkie redone. Con: the story loses a lot of its original charm when half of it is changed. Pro: You’ll probably sell more comic books to people who have never seen or heard of Selkie. Con: Those who already know and love Selkie get kicked right in the nostalgia when looking back at the unfamiliar faces of their beloved early panels.
It’s a judgement call, really. Sometimes change is a good thing. I changed my comic Morochey several times in different pencil-and-paper incarnations before finally publishing a digital version that I was happy with. But is change what you want for Selkie; a comic with an already adoring fanbase?
If you do decide to re-draw your earlier work, I hope the original art will still be available to see.
No reason?
Tease!
I say the original artwork should stand- the development of a talent is a major part of the enjoyment of a web comic. Before the net, it was only ever apparent in newspaper strips- witness how Larson’s artwork changed over his career.
“Heather…why didn’t you tell us this before?”
“You didn’t ask.”
Glad Todd told her to mind her manners as well. I wouldn’t let my kid disrespect people attempting to apologize for their kid’s actions either. Also, they knew Todd was a vegetarian, so they probably assumed the same for his daughter. It’s not a bad assumption. Most people I know who are vegetarian with kids also have their spouse and children be vegetarian. Not that I agree with that, I think forcing a lifestyle choice on your family is a pretty crappy thing to do.
Here’s hoping they have some hotdogs in the fridge.
I don’t as a rule like the idea of redoing the old strips. I like being able to go back and look at the progression of your art and see how much you’ve improved from back then.
Also, the EYES in that last panel. LOL!!!
in my opinion todd you should not redo the old comics. even if you do print them. The artwork and how the drawing style of the comic has changed is also part of the comic that i have grown to love. I like to look back at the archives and see just how much progress you have made made with your artwork in makes me remember that no mater how a comics artwork may change as long as the artist strives to better his skills and there is a good story line i will keep reading
God, everyone is a vegetarian.
For someone who’s not suppose to like Selkie, Heather knows that Selkie likes green and her favorite character is Beast tells me Heather isn’t as bad as I thought.