Your son falls out of the tree in the backyard and it looks like he broke his arm. You run out into the front yard screaming for help and there coming down the street is a Boy Scout in uniform!! Yay! That’s exactly what you need. Because Boy Scouts are trained in first aid. So you grab the Boy Scout and you drag him to the backyard to fix your kid’s broken arm.
Did you kidnap the Boy Scout? I don’t think so.
Basically the exact same thing. She looked for help, she saw somebody that she thought could help, and she dragged them along to help. That’s not kidnapping.
I can understand the echo on the ship. But grandma? And hear all this time I thought she had walking about sense.
She’s proven herself to be uncomfortable with Echo stuff in the past, so may be grumpy because of the idea of a bunch of them. New things can be frightening until you understand them. Although sometimes that makes them MORE frightening!
I would agree with this analysis. There’s certainly a level of force that got used and, if Selkie wanted to pursue it legally, charges could be filed for such an act, but on a base “mens rea” level, I’m pretty sure it fails to meet the standard of intent to do wrong/harm. Heck, it’s pretty explicitly an attempt to do the opposite of harming anyone, and in an emergency situation.
A bit of slack can be offered to people who meant no harm, when they were in the midst of an emergency, out of their element, hampered by a communications issue, low on time and with all the adrenaline of having just escaped captivity by the skin of their carnivore teeth.
Correct. You can’t force someone to provide aid. They have to volunteer. I think the law gets a bit more iffy if they agreed to provide aid but then want to stop halfway through (trying to remember my first aid training). Needless to say, you can’t just grab a person you think can help off the street. Possibly there might be some leeway if it is something like an ambulance or fire truck sitting in a parking lot (because they are getting snacks or something). Those people are more “on the job” to help people.
As for a child, I do wonder about the legal implications of whether or not a child can legally give consent to something that could be construed as a kidnapping. If it is on someone’s front lawn, yeah you could probably ask them, but I would think that any child would have concerns over entering the vehicle or house of someone they don’t know. Accident or not, I wouldn’t want any kid to enter an unknown vehicle, especially a van with no windows.
Er, if all echoes are default civil servants, that may have been half of Ban’Thie’s panicked reasoning, and another example of differing cultures. Even among Sarnothi clans or echo vs. non-echo.
“Sure it’s a kid, but she’s duty-bound to help, right?!?”
I think she is still gonna be rather surprised when she figures out that they are Selkie’s adoptive grandparents. They might be even more shocked when they figure out who Selkie’s biological parents are.
The translator would truly be a treat to everyone involved – except for Avery, I suppose. He probably could do without people he’s responsible of freking out for a while.
Leave it to Grandma to always see the worst in people who are not “her type: of people… Also, Leave it to Grandma to stick her spoon in and stir the pot at every opportunity. Just like my ex-in-laws… thank God the divorce got rid of them, poor Selkie and Amanda are stuck with her…
I really like Ban’Thea. I think she’s a bit overzealous and kind of silly, but I really like her sincerity and her snark. We’d be friends :). And I’m also waiting for Amanda to go all fire-eyes and Avery ask the Echos to train her, too…. can we be there for that, soon???
That “kidnapping” thing is nonsense.
Your son falls out of the tree in the backyard and it looks like he broke his arm. You run out into the front yard screaming for help and there coming down the street is a Boy Scout in uniform!! Yay! That’s exactly what you need. Because Boy Scouts are trained in first aid. So you grab the Boy Scout and you drag him to the backyard to fix your kid’s broken arm.
Did you kidnap the Boy Scout? I don’t think so.
Basically the exact same thing. She looked for help, she saw somebody that she thought could help, and she dragged them along to help. That’s not kidnapping.
I can understand the echo on the ship. But grandma? And hear all this time I thought she had walking about sense.
She’s proven herself to be uncomfortable with Echo stuff in the past, so may be grumpy because of the idea of a bunch of them. New things can be frightening until you understand them. Although sometimes that makes them MORE frightening!
I would agree with this analysis. There’s certainly a level of force that got used and, if Selkie wanted to pursue it legally, charges could be filed for such an act, but on a base “mens rea” level, I’m pretty sure it fails to meet the standard of intent to do wrong/harm. Heck, it’s pretty explicitly an attempt to do the opposite of harming anyone, and in an emergency situation.
A bit of slack can be offered to people who meant no harm, when they were in the midst of an emergency, out of their element, hampered by a communications issue, low on time and with all the adrenaline of having just escaped captivity by the skin of their carnivore teeth.
If you skip the part where you get consent from the boy scout, it might well be kidnapping, but at the very least it is battery.
I mean, what’s wrong with yelling, “Help! Someone here needs first aid!”?
Correct. You can’t force someone to provide aid. They have to volunteer. I think the law gets a bit more iffy if they agreed to provide aid but then want to stop halfway through (trying to remember my first aid training). Needless to say, you can’t just grab a person you think can help off the street. Possibly there might be some leeway if it is something like an ambulance or fire truck sitting in a parking lot (because they are getting snacks or something). Those people are more “on the job” to help people.
As for a child, I do wonder about the legal implications of whether or not a child can legally give consent to something that could be construed as a kidnapping. If it is on someone’s front lawn, yeah you could probably ask them, but I would think that any child would have concerns over entering the vehicle or house of someone they don’t know. Accident or not, I wouldn’t want any kid to enter an unknown vehicle, especially a van with no windows.
Er, if all echoes are default civil servants, that may have been half of Ban’Thie’s panicked reasoning, and another example of differing cultures. Even among Sarnothi clans or echo vs. non-echo.
“Sure it’s a kid, but she’s duty-bound to help, right?!?”
I think she is still gonna be rather surprised when she figures out that they are Selkie’s adoptive grandparents. They might be even more shocked when they figure out who Selkie’s biological parents are.
The translator would truly be a treat to everyone involved – except for Avery, I suppose. He probably could do without people he’s responsible of freking out for a while.
Yeah, I agree with Ban’Thie, it wouldn’t be unreasonable to hand out a few translators to those who’re most likely to be interacting with their hosts.
Yea, it’s kinda vital for them to understand their landlords.
Especially when they’ll be talking about their two echo grandchildren, one of which is extremely human 😀
Leave it to Grandma to always see the worst in people who are not “her type: of people… Also, Leave it to Grandma to stick her spoon in and stir the pot at every opportunity. Just like my ex-in-laws… thank God the divorce got rid of them, poor Selkie and Amanda are stuck with her…
I really like Ban’Thea. I think she’s a bit overzealous and kind of silly, but I really like her sincerity and her snark. We’d be friends :). And I’m also waiting for Amanda to go all fire-eyes and Avery ask the Echos to train her, too…. can we be there for that, soon???