Honestly, I thought it was going to be a lot worse. As in, I thought he was grabbing Echo’s to build their own device/bomb to make sure the humans don’t try anything.
Granted, his secrecy earlier makes me think that he might be trading the tech to a less than trustworthy source, but given how government agencies are, he could just be talking to the CIA instead of the usual FBI, as it were.
This seems like a fair deal at first… Then you take into account the US military… But considering the last arc this may not be the worst thing. At least he isn’t suggesting child soldiers.
Actually, I would argue that if humans can gain the capacity to also be an Echo through Sanotath Technology, exposure etc I think a case can be made that free trade of Technology even MORE valuable. At least on the front end.
Tech you need a specific population’s talent to use, build and manipulate would be limited by continuing access to those individuals. It would put the Echos in a gatekeeper role and they are obviously not always in agreement or amenable to outside control. However if Then can say that with their training and methods some humans can also become Echos, it makes it more appealing to the US Government if Then can get solid terms and more of their people integrated into society before the Govt figures out how to replicate it.
Who has given Then authority to barter Sarnoth tech?
It appears he has just taken it upon himself. Back in the late 40s and early 50s, one Americans took upon themselves to barter American atomic technology with other countries, they called it treason and killed them.
Atomic bombs are classified military technology. Echo powers are widely used for both civilian and military purposes, and training doesn’t appear to be restricted by affiliation (or wasn’t before the current tyrant took over). Selkie is being offered training even though she was adopted by a human and has no particular loyalty to or even knowledge of Sarnoth, which is not something you would do with a military secret that is considered essential to national security.
This is less like the US sharing knowledge of atomic bombs, and more like the US sharing knowledge of electricity.
It’s the same thing. If America was the only country in the world that had electricity, they would probably not look kindly upon me telling Canada how electricity worked.
Now Washington might decide to share the secret of electricity with our allies -tell Canada tell England tell NATO. That’s the government making that decision. If I just decided on my own, again, treason. That’s what they call it when you give away government secrets.
Is it still treason when the government you’re supposedly under has been toppled by another power? Then is probably already legally a traitor just for being on land right now. Who is going to prosecute him?
Every single technology ever invented started out in only one country before it spread to other countries. Simply because that’s what invention means: I, one specific person in one specific country, now know something that no-one else in the entire history of the world ever has. How long technologies took to spread varies, and can range from days to decades. The vast majority of technologies in history had fairly painless disseminations.
Most technologies aren’t government secrets because they weren’t even invented by the government. They were invented by private citizens who were doing their own research on their own time, and not directly working for the government of the nation they’re living in beyond paying taxes. Many of these people chose to share their discoveries (often for money), which is their obvious right, because they came up with them.
Echoes don’t even seem to be a recent invention. As far as I can tell, it seems to be something Sarnothi have been using for so long that no-one even remembers the name of the original inventor, it’s just “something we’ve always been able to do”. It’s not even like the discovery of electricity, it’s like the discovery of fire. Would you consider a random US citizen who decided to teach Sarnothi how to use fire a traitor? They live underwater, it’s not like they’d already be familiar with the concept.
The one guy from Sarnoth who actually did try to force all Echoes to work for the government whether they like it or not was outright called a “heretic” in the recent storyline, which featured a major effort to free those Echoes from their oppressor. The notion that Echo technology should be a tightly-controlled government secret of Sarnoth is not merely wrong, but actively repugnant to Sarnothi sensibilities.
(That said – Echoes are versatile, and though it hasn’t explicitly come up, it would make sense if the techniques to create certain specific Echo technologies, such as suppression collars, are considered more sensitive than other Echo powers.)
It might be more of the equivalent to the silk trade. In general, it was a lot easier to keep production secrets then than it is now, with the rise of technology. The only product that tends to hide how it is made is things that completely obliterate themselves when it is used (and kamikaze drones aren’t a good example due to them not totally destroying themselves and sometimes a high rate of failure). Even with total destruction, you still could probably figure out what something is made out of given the time and resources. Analysis of whatbis left behind (aka chemical compunds, etc) and video footage could help with that. Odd are with enough resources, computer simulations and manpower, even if you didn’t recreate something exactly, you could discover a new way to do it. Sometimes all you need is the knowledge that it can be done and the incentive.
dual Use tech such as chem weapons (and pesticides and yes They are exactly the same thing. Zyklon B for instance, is used in an insecticide in modern American homes) are VERY VERY scrutinized when transferred to 3rd world countries. when we build or give the plant to make basic home insecticides and such we are giving tech to a country to build chem weapons. The different is the delivery method.
That is the least surprising thematic development possible. To the point where the oath seems inordinately pointless as it would be basically an openly acknowledged thing to anticipate.
I imagine any Sarnothi that know what Humans and the USA are, even remotely, would just assume this was already the case.
And if Pohl and Scar are the least bit surprised, I’d think less of them for it.
I think this may just be the first part… I still think the actual project may have more to do with trying to make more echoes, which might not be looked kindly upon. Especially if some of the echoes were humans.
Ok so by his account: The Americans have ‘offered them a place in their society, but it hasn’t been for free.’ So he’s offering up their tech?
Has he looked at the southern border? You’ve got hundreds of people trying to cross it every day with nothing more than the clothes they’re wearing. And all that gets asked of them is that they get jobs and pay taxes like the rest of us. It’s the same with other borders too, every month hundreds of Americans become permanent residents of Canada with no more being asked of them than ‘get a job and pay your taxes.’
How many of those places might be considering those people fleeing war criminals and demand for them to be returned? America is in a unique situation where they don’t have a neighbor that is a direct threat. The Sarnothi could be a substantial threat with their technology and proximity. That means, that as a government, you have to weigh the risk of angering someone who could directly attack your cities over helping refugees. The echoes are a group of people that they would probably really want back (also people like Selkie’s mom). Them offering a trade to make it worth the risk, especially one that could reduce the unknown around the threat that Sarnothi technology produces, makes perfect sense. Knowing how a weapon works also means figuring out ways to warn about incoming attacks and prevent or stop them. It is a lot harder to do that if you don’t know what the attacks could be. It would be like the intake of German scientists under Operation Paperclip. Some of these scientists (I don’t know exactly how many) would have been considered war criminals but were given a pass due to their usefulness.
ummm you are not very familiar with the requirements to becoming canadian citizen are you? because QUITE a bit is asked of you to immigrate to canada. Even with a demonstrated skill most americans do not qualify.
Seriously, even becoming a RESIDENT in Canada is tough, let alone becoming a citizen.
And if all that was being asked of people crossing the southern US border was “get a job and pay taxes” there wouldn’t be so many living in fear of ICE. Becoming a legal resident or citizen of the US is a lot more involved than that too.
Oooooh, that seems like an unwise idea.
… based on my knowledge and experience with humanity in genereal, but moreso with humanity that has power.
Honestly, I thought it was going to be a lot worse. As in, I thought he was grabbing Echo’s to build their own device/bomb to make sure the humans don’t try anything.
Granted, his secrecy earlier makes me think that he might be trading the tech to a less than trustworthy source, but given how government agencies are, he could just be talking to the CIA instead of the usual FBI, as it were.
Then is a Special Agent with the CIA. :3
So still sketchy, or at least sparky. 😆
Freaking autocorrect… “snarky”!
This seems like a fair deal at first… Then you take into account the US military… But considering the last arc this may not be the worst thing. At least he isn’t suggesting child soldiers.
Still apprehensive. They may not care for the idea that their unique asset wouldn’t be so unique if Human Echoes can become a widespread thing.
ok, and?
Doesn’t Amanda’s abilities undercut the value of the Sarnothi offer?
Is the fast-track strategy designed to move things while the Sarnothi have the near-monopoly?
Amanda doesn’t know how to use her powers without training that currently only sarnothi are capable of offering.
It’s a temporary advantage, but that just makes it important to exploit it while it lasts.
@Dondonesque
Actually, I would argue that if humans can gain the capacity to also be an Echo through Sanotath Technology, exposure etc I think a case can be made that free trade of Technology even MORE valuable. At least on the front end.
Tech you need a specific population’s talent to use, build and manipulate would be limited by continuing access to those individuals. It would put the Echos in a gatekeeper role and they are obviously not always in agreement or amenable to outside control. However if Then can say that with their training and methods some humans can also become Echos, it makes it more appealing to the US Government if Then can get solid terms and more of their people integrated into society before the Govt figures out how to replicate it.
Well reasoned. Sold!
I don’t know what is going to happen but this is getting more intense! o_o
Who has given Then authority to barter Sarnoth tech?
It appears he has just taken it upon himself. Back in the late 40s and early 50s, one Americans took upon themselves to barter American atomic technology with other countries, they called it treason and killed them.
Atomic bombs are classified military technology. Echo powers are widely used for both civilian and military purposes, and training doesn’t appear to be restricted by affiliation (or wasn’t before the current tyrant took over). Selkie is being offered training even though she was adopted by a human and has no particular loyalty to or even knowledge of Sarnoth, which is not something you would do with a military secret that is considered essential to national security.
This is less like the US sharing knowledge of atomic bombs, and more like the US sharing knowledge of electricity.
It’s the same thing. If America was the only country in the world that had electricity, they would probably not look kindly upon me telling Canada how electricity worked.
Now Washington might decide to share the secret of electricity with our allies -tell Canada tell England tell NATO. That’s the government making that decision. If I just decided on my own, again, treason. That’s what they call it when you give away government secrets.
Is it still treason when the government you’re supposedly under has been toppled by another power? Then is probably already legally a traitor just for being on land right now. Who is going to prosecute him?
Every single technology ever invented started out in only one country before it spread to other countries. Simply because that’s what invention means: I, one specific person in one specific country, now know something that no-one else in the entire history of the world ever has. How long technologies took to spread varies, and can range from days to decades. The vast majority of technologies in history had fairly painless disseminations.
Most technologies aren’t government secrets because they weren’t even invented by the government. They were invented by private citizens who were doing their own research on their own time, and not directly working for the government of the nation they’re living in beyond paying taxes. Many of these people chose to share their discoveries (often for money), which is their obvious right, because they came up with them.
Echoes don’t even seem to be a recent invention. As far as I can tell, it seems to be something Sarnothi have been using for so long that no-one even remembers the name of the original inventor, it’s just “something we’ve always been able to do”. It’s not even like the discovery of electricity, it’s like the discovery of fire. Would you consider a random US citizen who decided to teach Sarnothi how to use fire a traitor? They live underwater, it’s not like they’d already be familiar with the concept.
The one guy from Sarnoth who actually did try to force all Echoes to work for the government whether they like it or not was outright called a “heretic” in the recent storyline, which featured a major effort to free those Echoes from their oppressor. The notion that Echo technology should be a tightly-controlled government secret of Sarnoth is not merely wrong, but actively repugnant to Sarnothi sensibilities.
(That said – Echoes are versatile, and though it hasn’t explicitly come up, it would make sense if the techniques to create certain specific Echo technologies, such as suppression collars, are considered more sensitive than other Echo powers.)
It might be more of the equivalent to the silk trade. In general, it was a lot easier to keep production secrets then than it is now, with the rise of technology. The only product that tends to hide how it is made is things that completely obliterate themselves when it is used (and kamikaze drones aren’t a good example due to them not totally destroying themselves and sometimes a high rate of failure). Even with total destruction, you still could probably figure out what something is made out of given the time and resources. Analysis of whatbis left behind (aka chemical compunds, etc) and video footage could help with that. Odd are with enough resources, computer simulations and manpower, even if you didn’t recreate something exactly, you could discover a new way to do it. Sometimes all you need is the knowledge that it can be done and the incentive.
dual Use tech such as chem weapons (and pesticides and yes They are exactly the same thing. Zyklon B for instance, is used in an insecticide in modern American homes) are VERY VERY scrutinized when transferred to 3rd world countries. when we build or give the plant to make basic home insecticides and such we are giving tech to a country to build chem weapons. The different is the delivery method.
All sarnothi on the surface are already exiled/traitors with sarnoth.
Damn I hate otto korrik. WHEN they took it upon themselves to barter, not ONE they took it upon themselves.
That is the least surprising thematic development possible. To the point where the oath seems inordinately pointless as it would be basically an openly acknowledged thing to anticipate.
I imagine any Sarnothi that know what Humans and the USA are, even remotely, would just assume this was already the case.
And if Pohl and Scar are the least bit surprised, I’d think less of them for it.
I think this may just be the first part… I still think the actual project may have more to do with trying to make more echoes, which might not be looked kindly upon. Especially if some of the echoes were humans.
Ok so by his account: The Americans have ‘offered them a place in their society, but it hasn’t been for free.’ So he’s offering up their tech?
Has he looked at the southern border? You’ve got hundreds of people trying to cross it every day with nothing more than the clothes they’re wearing. And all that gets asked of them is that they get jobs and pay taxes like the rest of us. It’s the same with other borders too, every month hundreds of Americans become permanent residents of Canada with no more being asked of them than ‘get a job and pay your taxes.’
How many of those places might be considering those people fleeing war criminals and demand for them to be returned? America is in a unique situation where they don’t have a neighbor that is a direct threat. The Sarnothi could be a substantial threat with their technology and proximity. That means, that as a government, you have to weigh the risk of angering someone who could directly attack your cities over helping refugees. The echoes are a group of people that they would probably really want back (also people like Selkie’s mom). Them offering a trade to make it worth the risk, especially one that could reduce the unknown around the threat that Sarnothi technology produces, makes perfect sense. Knowing how a weapon works also means figuring out ways to warn about incoming attacks and prevent or stop them. It is a lot harder to do that if you don’t know what the attacks could be. It would be like the intake of German scientists under Operation Paperclip. Some of these scientists (I don’t know exactly how many) would have been considered war criminals but were given a pass due to their usefulness.
ummm you are not very familiar with the requirements to becoming canadian citizen are you? because QUITE a bit is asked of you to immigrate to canada. Even with a demonstrated skill most americans do not qualify.
Seriously, even becoming a RESIDENT in Canada is tough, let alone becoming a citizen.
And if all that was being asked of people crossing the southern US border was “get a job and pay taxes” there wouldn’t be so many living in fear of ICE. Becoming a legal resident or citizen of the US is a lot more involved than that too.
“We will also trade for…..PANTS!”
Ugh, I new greedy military rubes would be spoiling things for the sarnothi and complicating Selkie’s life.